During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
- Why do a cleanup?: This trope definitely exists and has a well documented history of use. That being said, it frequently gets misused to a character who meets one of the components, namely that they are smart, charming while not necessarily even being a villain, or create good plans. While these are components, there is also a certain personality required, not to mention that all of the above are required to be present for a character to be a true Magnificent Bastard. As the trope attracts interest, it unfortunately brings in a lot of misuse and I thought the best way to rectify this would be a Perpetual Cleanup Thread, as is being done and has seen success with Complete Monster.
- What makes a Magnificent Bastard: Below is a list of the individual components to make this character. Note that they must all be present, not just some, which has lead to frequent misuse:
- Must be intelligent: Goes without saying, to be a Magnificent Bastard, the character has to be smart in the first place and use their brain to work towards whatever their end goal may be;
- Must be a Bastard: While going overboard in how vile the character is can be detrimental, a key aspect is the Bastard part of the trope, whether the character is an out-and-out antagonist in the work, some manner of Villain Protagonist, or something in between, they at least have some unscrupulous qualities to qualify for this trope;
- Must not be too detestable: Again, there is a ceiling on how bad the character can be before they just become too nefarious, blocking out the Magnificent part of the trope. A genocidal racist or child-raping Sadist aren't going to make the cut;
- Think on their feet: In addition to being a Chessmaster, a Magnificent Bastard, if the character deals with situations in which their initial plan is ruined, has to be able to pull a Xanatos Speed Chess and at least come up with a competent strategy to make up for lost time, otherwise they fail for being unable to think in tough spots;
- Have charm: Even if they don't necessarily make every character they meet fall in love with them and can even be detested by others, the audience has to find an amicable social relation to the character, or they are failing to make the impact required for this trope.
- What to do if a character is listed on a page but has not been approved?: They need to be removed, all candidates need to come through the cleanup thread first. The character could well count but they need to be analyzed properly and voted on first.
- Do we list Playing With this trope?: No; as a YMMV trope, this cannot be Played With, so we only want examples that are Played Straight.
- What do I do if I want a character to be listed as a Magnificent Bastard?: The greatest success Complete Monster saw for its cleanup effort was from the invention of the effort post format, so, borrowing from that, a troper wishing to propose a Magnificent Bastard will create such a post in the following format:
- Begin by describing The work, this will help establish the setting the character is in and for the reader to understand what kind of a scenario they are in;
- Summarize The character's actions, this will provide a listing for readers to understand what they do and how it applies to this trope because charm and lack of smugness are so crucial, this is a good time to be incorporating exactly the flavor of how they operate to explain this;
- List circumstances in which the character must Think on their feet, these are times where a wrench might be thrown in their initial plan and they have to adapt on the spot or even come up with a new scheme all together, this is also a good time to explain how the villain reacts to defeat when they have to face it, a true Magnificent Bastard won't break down into tears at the thought of death, they should have known such a possibility could occur and be able to handle it with more dignity;
- The competition, similar to the Heinous Standard dealt with for a Complete Monster, this section is to deal with how successful the character is in carrying out their plans compared to other characters. While, as a villain, they probably are going to lose in the end, it is good to explain how other characters handle the same situation. There is no exceptionalism case to be made for this trope but explaining the variety helps the reader have a better understanding of the proposal.
- How do you know when the character's arc is done so they can be proposed? When their tenure as a villain or antagonist finishes. This could happen in a single Story Arc in an entire work, a single work of a franchise, or the whole series in general. We'll show lenience to Long-Runners with constantly recurring candidates or series with outstanding continuities (ex. comic books), and it's entirely possible to count in a work or two but not in general for a reason like Depending on the Writer.
- What about candidates evil because of external sources? Those Made of Evil can qualify if they show enough individuality and tactical acumen — in other words, they have the personality to fulfill the magnificence requirement. Conversely, those brainwashed, especially if they're a better person without it, may fail the individuality aspect and cannot count.
- What if they are under orders from a higher-up? Depends. If the boss created the plans down to the letter and the candidate is just following them, sounds like we should discuss the boss instead. However, if the candidate takes creative liberties with the orders, adds their own charm and flair to them, fills in holes in the orders, and/or actively deals with obstacles their boss did not talk about, the candidate shows enough individual thinking to qualify.
- What about Character Development? An MB is something a character can develop into... a nice person who plots well might become more morally gray as the work goes on and hits the "Bastard" criteria, thus making them viable. Likewise, a Smug Snake might shed their ego, become more understanding of the threat others pose and gain the personality or "Magnificent" criteria, likewise making them viable. Conversely, a character who looks like this trope might suffer from a Sanity Slippage or just get outed as not being as smart as they thought they were and become incompatible with MB.
- Can an MB be a good guy? Not in the conventional sense... it is required they have at least some dubious traits lest they fail the "Bastard" criteria. That being said, a character who pulls a Heel–Face Turn or eventually stops taking villainous actions is still fair game: as there was a point in time where they were both "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and they've merely adapted as time goes on. Now... if such a character begins showing other issues (i.e.: becomes prone to freak outs or starts getting outwitted) then they're compromising their Magnificence and will probably be deemed a cut. What's important is stylishly operating while at least for some time being willing to take at best underhanded methods to see a job done. A Heel–Face Turn in itself isn't a disqualifier but they do have to have been "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and afterwards can't start slipping on the former front.
- What about characters whose stories can take different routes?: When proposing a character in a form of media that has them in multiple story routes. Said character must be consistent with their characteristics in all routes. (ex.: Can't have an example who shows promise on one route yet fails in another.) The only exception is if a later installment of the series confirms the character's actions which made them worth proposing are the canon route.
- Is there a timeframe rule like with Complete Monster?: Yes, please wait two weeks until after the work has concluded before proposing a character (again, usually using the North American air date). As is the case with CM, we want to give a reasonable time frame so that everyone interested in seeing the work has done so and can participate in the discussion without having anything spoiled.
- What about groups like with Complete Monster?: This is a point of divergence between the two tropes. While CM does not allow for a single entry encompassing more than three characters lest their heinousness for crimes becomes too watered down, with MB as long as they are treated as one "unit" it is acceptable to lump all characters provided they share acts of charm and intelligence.
- Can I propose my own work's character as a Magnificent Bastard?: No, this is a YMMV subject and the creator of a content is way too biased to be able to evaluate the criteria we're looking for without a second opinion taking over. That being said, you are more than welcome to encourage someone to consume your creation and if they feel a character counts, are more than welcome to suggest them.
- My example/edit has been approved, but the example subpage is locked! How do I get it added?: The moderators do not add examples to locked example subpages in the MagnificentBastard/ namespace directly. Rather, you need to do the edit to a sandbox page that follows the format Sandbox.MagnificentBastard<Name of the example subpage> (e.g for MagnificentBastard.Fullmetal Alchemist it's Sandbox.Magnificent Bastard Fullmetal Alchemist) and on a Friday, ask in the locked pages edit requests thread for the content to be swapped in.
Thread rules
When voting a troper must specify the effort post they're voting on and cannot merely vote on "Everything I missed" as in the past it has indicated the poster didn't read the effort post and is guessing instead of analyzing.
Resolved items
In general, a character listed on this trope is considered "settled". This means they should not be challenged unless information used to list them was incorrect or information was missed in the initial discussion.
However, when re-litigating a candidate, the same rules apply for when they were originally proposed. If they do not have five or more upvotes than downvotes for approval upon a re-litigation, including votes from the initial discussion if they do not change, then they are a cut.
This especially applies to the characters listed below, who have been discussed excessively and repeated attempts to get them listed/cut may result in punitive action for bogging down the thread.
Definitely an MB
- Pokémon Mystery Dungeon: Explorers: Any sadism Darkrai displays is limited in effect thanks to the game's nature and any cowardice which can be inferred about him is Alternative Character Interpretation about his tactical retreats.
- Avatar: The Last Airbender: Azula's Villainous Breakdown is undone in the sequel comic Smoke & Shadow where she regains her composure and ends up stable and in control enough to count.
Definitely not an MB
- South Park: The show's frequent use of vulgar comedy and mean-spirited humor leaves any potential candidates devoid of the dignity or charm to qualify.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:15:22 AM
As the person who effortposted L, I'll just state that L not only kills people on his path to stopping Light, he uses ruthless tactics (Such as torture. Seriously, what he does to the amnesiac Misa and Light is appalling.) and deliberately draws out the case because he wants to prove Light is Kira. I'd say he lands pretty hard on the "Anti" side of Anti-Hero.
Edited by Riley1sCool on Nov 30th 2019 at 8:36:55 AM
Sure to Starrick.
I was going to wait for the argument to come in but I'm 100% behind Riley here... he's a WIE but he endangers people to stop Light happily and fully admits sating his own ego is a big motivator behind stopping the latter.
Yeah, L isn't a good person by any means. Husband motive for catching Kira isn't even heroic.
The Draftsman of Doom
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Starrick.
Wild Child
Found this on YMMV.The First Law.
- Magnificent Bastard:
- Nicomo Cosca, famed soldier of fortune, is here for dinner.
- Bayaz is a truly evil bastard, but it's undeniable how impressive his manipulations are. This is a man who fermented a bloody peasant uprising just so he could call it off to give his chosen puppet king a bit more street cred.
- Glokta especially later on, judging by Carlot dan Eider's words in Best Served Cold.
- By the end of The Heroes, Calder is looking like he's graduated from Smug Snake.
I know Lighty made an effort-post from this series. Any comments?
Why so serious?
Okay, so...
Cosca from Best Served Cold would be a terrific example...the problem is he returns in The Heroes where he's ultimately far more pathetic and becomes rather vile by the end from Lovable Rogue to being willing to pettily murder children.
Bayaz is a fuck no. He's a sadistic monstrous, petty tyrant and utter creep. This is a clear example of someone being too evil to keep.
Calder...by the end of the Heroes maybe, but by the sequel series, Calder is ultimately out of his depth and all his plans are undone by his sadistic son Stour Nightfall....he's still alive so maybe later.
Glokta is a fuck-no, absolutely not, no never. He is perfectly on track to the end....until he reveals himself to be a vicious misogynist who forces a lesbian woman to sleep with her husband, the king, by threatening her lover with torture and death should she disobey. When you make a woman party to her own rape, your magnificence is gone.
I cut these unaproved examples from SCP Foundation
- Magnificent Bastard:
- Dr. Clef.
- Also Dr. Kondraki, as described by Clef.
- The D-class who uses SCP-687 to commit the Cleveland Torso Murders and then escape the Foundation, all just by being nice and tricking the Foundation into letting him type whatever he wanted to into the game.
- Dr. Clef
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
I'll just go over these real quick:
Clef is an Author Avatar for one of the site's admins who's characterization depends on the story (the length of the CM page makes me think y'all are aware of the whole "there is no canon" thing). If there's an individual version who counts, I haven't found him yet.
The random D-Class has next-to-no development
Kondraki is similar to Clef, but in this case, I know exactly what story landed him on that list. It's awesome as hell, but the problem is that it also makes the Foundation ten times dumber than usual, which seriously hurts his cred.
Alright, so if nobody minds I'm going to ask for a revote on Hart Vortex due to my controversial CM effortpost thinking he had a shot at both tropes.
Here's the post in question:
What is Dai Gyakuten Saiban duology?
Dai Gyakuten Saiban (English: The Great Ace Attorney) is a duology of games that westerners did not get due to the Arthur Conan Doyle estate and Sherlock Holmes being in the game, among other reasons. Basically you play as Phoenix's ancestor Ryuunosuke Naruhodou as he is a young up and coming attorney. The games mostly take place in Britain, but the first case of each game takes place in Japan. The games start off with an attorney getting framed by a rather racist British woman for the murder of none other than John A. Watson, Sherlock Holmes partner. Turns out there's more to that than meets the eye as the second game reveals Watson is very much alive, and closer than you would expect. You play as four characters: Ryuunosuke Naruhodou, his teenage sidekick Susato Mikotoba, Sherlock Holmes, and Watson himself who is Susato's father.
I'd go into more detail, but I don't see the need to spoil more than I need to.
Who is Hart Vortex?
(Taken from my MB effortpost)
Vortex is basically to put it lightly, Damon Gant's ancestor. Okay, so there's no proof that he is, but given that he uses similar methods to Gant and has a similar breakdown. But anyway, he is the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court of England and by extension, the true Big Bad of the duology. Almost every negative event in the Duology can be directed at him. While Vortex is a jackass, he doesn't go the Smug Snake route and does some actions worthy of a seemingly Reasonable Authority Figure such as test to make sure Ryuunosuke is adequately prepared to defend his client, albeit this is done because he wants to save face with the Queen. I will explain in detail his actions through the next section.
What has he done?
In the previous trials before DGS 2-5 Ryuunosuke considered him a kind old man, and didn't believe he was capable at committing foul deeds. It is only through his and Sherlock's deductions that he is able to piece together Vortex is behind everything.
Vortex's plan begins with his vision of a crime-free England, similar to Light Yagami albeit significantly less selfish, but comes off as disingenous and is repeatedly called out on hus vision not being what England truly wants. He starts off as an ordinary prosecutor hoping to one day rid England of crime. He then notices a fellow prosecutor known as Klimt Van Zieks, the brother of honourable rival prosecutor Barok Van Zieks who also wished for a crime free Britain. Together, the two climb their way to the top by Klimt killing Vortex's targets, including the former Chief Justice. This is all told through Flashbacks, so until the bodies are found by Ryunnosuke and Sherlock we don't know he's behind it as Klimt becomes an enigmatic serial killer known as 'The Professor" and ends up being Vortex's muscle. After the murders of everyone standing in Vortex's way, Tobias Gregson helped Vortex frame the Professor's crimes on Genshin Asougi through a complex forging scheme with John A. Watson (the fake one), then the Coroner, also conspiring with the two. Genshin and Klimt had a duel to the death, with Klimt confessing his sins to Genshin, through a will to his wife and younger brother, ending with Klimt dying via Suicide by Cop. Similar to another Ace Attorney killer, Klimt Van Zieks killed using a dog. Gregson was originally against this plan, but he, along with the fake John A. Watson covered the whole thing up, through a forged autopsy report, due to Vortex admitting he did not want the world to know a British man was involved. This was also insurance in case anyone was to piece together that he was the Mastermind. Genshin himself approached Vortex prior to the duel having figured out "The Professor"s identity. He begged Vortex to investigate it, but clever Vortex easily stated the evidence was "inconclusive" due to the "The Professor" owning a dog, and could in his eyes, be anyone. Coincidentally Genshin also owned a sword, which was how Klimt died, so they could try him for the crime despite not having a dog. Vortex then blackmailed Genshin into accepting a guilty verdict after finding out the will pointed to him as the brains behind The Professor serial killings, by warning he would never see his family again. Of course regardless, Genshin received the death penalty and Vortex decided to erase the sins of the past after being promoted to Chief Justice starting with the murder of the fake John A. Watson through an assassin known as Jezail Brett (later revealed to be Ann Sasha, Britain's most notorious assassin). It is then Genshin's son Kazuma Asogi is presumably killed before making it to Britain. Due to this, Vortex accepts Ryuunosuke as a replacement defense attorney for someone he knew was guilty, namely Cosney Megundal. Next, after finding out Kazuma was alive after all, he has him train under Barok Van Zieks as a prosecutor. He then sends one of the top judges of Japan, Seishirou Jigoku who he had appointed to Minister of Foreign affairs in Japan and Gregson on a death mission with Kazuma as an assassin. Kazuma resists, and Jigoku ends up killing Gregson. In the end in the final trial against Kazuma after Ryuunosuke finds out the truth, Holmes tells Vortex that he has been broadcasting the entire trial to Queen Victoria, after a villainous breakdown, Hart Vortex begrudgingly fakes a Graceful Loser attitude.
Heinous Standard? The competition?
Due to him being behind every single murder in the duology it's clear he's one of the most vile antagonists thus far. If you count the deaths he caused behind the scenes which he himself confesses to, he has one of the highest death tolls of any Ace Attorney villain, and due to being behind every murderer in the duology besides Ann Sasha, while only lifting a finger beyond directing for a few, he's one of the most brilliant villains too.
Mitigating Qualities?
Vortex is Faux Affably Evil incarnate. He compliments people for his own gain and never goes the Smug Snake route unlike the majority of AA baddies. Every good deed he does was to advance his influence in some way. Having Ryunnosuke defend Cosney Megundal? To let one of his associates go free. His seemingly graceful attitude? To save face with the Queen. He actually has a breakdown where he outright smashes the Judges' podium. His goal for a crime-free England? To advance him to Chief Justice and give him total control over England's justice system making him a Not-So-Well-Intentioned Extremist. He disposes of people callously and without remorse that have outlived their usefulness.
To be fair when I first effortposted him, I downplayed his more sinister qualities, thinking he was likely not going to make it regardless due to just how awful he was. Yeah he's about as bad as Simon Keyes but at least Keyes was Affably Evil to an extent and a Graceful Loser. While not an outright Sore Loser, Vortex doesn't take being bested by Ryunnosuke very well. I also left out the way he discards his followers, or accomplices, either by having them killed or not caring if they die. To quote Damon Gant he only cares about "Me, myself, and I" but does that make him too vile to be a MB? I mean on very rare occasions a villain need not be sympathetic to be a MB and even if they aren't they don't use a serial killer to "keep the peace" even if it's mainly for his own personal gain. He lacks Smug Snake traits definitely instead being straight out FAE. Another concern I had with him counting was at how brutal some od the mursers were. Accomplice and puppet Senshirou Jigoku's murder of Tobias Gregson for example is particularly brutal even by AA standards.
I thought I laid it all out on the table with the whole "he uses a serial killer to kill his way to the top" spiel along with blackmailing the framed party tp get a guilty verdict and receive the death penalty for essentially being the fall guy in 19th Century Damon Gant's plot. I guess things needed to be elaborated on. But with all that said. Are you all still comfortable with keeping him or should I request he be cut?
I’ll decide how I’m voting later but Klavice, you should have been fully familiar with the character for your first EP on him. As is I’m tempted to say no on both fronts out of frustration so I’ll hold off until I’m in a better mood.
The Draftsman of Doom
I'm getting sore loser vibes from this character. Cut.
Musician/Composer
I'm also going to go with cutting Hart Vortex's entry.
Edited by gjjones on Dec 1st 2019 at 10:29:41 AM
He/His/Him. No matter who you are, always Be Yourself.
Showtime!
Cut Vortex
Absolute destiny... apeachalypse?
Goku Black
Cut Vortex.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Cut Vortex.
Fuck it, cut him.
Short-Term Projects herald
Cut Vortex.
Edited by Brainulator9 on Dec 1st 2019 at 11:20:45 AM
Contains 20% less fat than the leading value brand!
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
Cut him. But he does sound like a CM, if you can somehow prove that he is a Not-So-Well-Intentioned Extremist.
Well... we all make mistakes. Just NEVER do it again.
Edited by MasterN on Dec 1st 2019 at 11:17:45 AM
One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
This is a bit of a trust shaker, so please be mindful of how well versed you are in the characters you pick Klavice.
Klavice, I don't want to be mean, but I heavily question how much you understand the trope or this thread. Several reasons you give for saying certain candidates don't count border from heavily questionable (saying a femme fetale is inherently too much of a bitch to qualify, or manga Lysandre can't count because he blown up towns) to outright nonsensical (some MLP villain isn't a bastard because they're a Smug Super or another one because they're too much of a Tragic Villain)
And now that we find out that your MB EP of Vortex when you weren't even finished with the game, when it's common sense to familiarize yourself with what the candidate does to EP, that makes my concerns about your credibility far worse.
Alright so I’ve got another candidate to discuss from a show that I watched during my adolescence. The show in question is called 6teen.
What’s The Work?
6teen is a Canadian animated sitcom about six teenage friends, Jude, Jen, Nikki, Jonesy, Caitlin, and Wyatt, having part-time jobs at the Galleria Shopping Mall, while also struggling to balance work with the daily problems of being a teenager. Now of all the people they’ve met in the mall I think that this once happens to be the most crafty and charming, Jade.
Who Is She? What Has She Done?
Jade is Jude’s 10-year old cousin who appears in the Season 4 episode, “Great Expectations” and has a Precocious Crush on Jude’s friend Jonesy. However Jade learns that Jonesy already has a girlfriend in Nikki, so Jade plans to have Nikki out of the picture to have Jonesy all to herself.
So first Jade showers Jonesy with expensive gifts, and shows off her knowledge of Jonesy in front of Nikki, leading to Nikki to become jealous to Jade and following her believing Jade to be shoplifting the gifts for Jonesy.
When Nikki catches Jade “stealing” a gift from a store, Nikki grabs Jade’s arm and take the gifts unknowingly leaving the store with it, where Ron the Rent-a-Cop catches Nikki “stealing” and arrests Nikki.
It’s then revealed that this was all part of Jade’s Batman Gambit, where she intentionally misled Nikki into believing that she’s been shoplifting knowing that Nikki would follow her to “prove” it where Jade would successfully frame Nikki for stealing, all while using her adorableness to feign innocence, getting away with her crimes.
When Jonesy learns that Nikki’s in the mall jail and tries to get her out, Jade arrives with the keys to Nikki’s cell whom she pickpocketed from Ron and promises to let Nikki out, on the condition that Jonesy becomes Jade’s boyfriend.
Eventually Jonesy relents and Jade throws the keys to Jonesy. However just after that, Ron arrives and accuses Jonesy to breaking Nikki out due to the scenario. Luckily Jonesy realizes the security camera, and uses them to expose Jade’s crimes while proving Nikki and his innocence. This leads to Ron to release Nikki and Jonesy while admitting embarrassment that he was manipulated by a child.
Later after being caught by Jude for using their eating money to buy gifts for Jonesy, Jade has Jonesy give back the gifts so she can return them for the money, where she learns that he just got fired from his latest job (a Running Gag). Believing herself to need a more stable "boyfriend", Jade “breaks up” with Jonesy, allowing Nikki to take him back.
Is She Intelligent? Is She Charismatic?
For a ten year old girl, Jade is proven to be very, cunning and charming. She manages to pull a very successful Batman Gambit, using Jonesy, Nikki, and Ron as Unwitting Pawns to her scheme all while using her cuteness to manipulate people. Given that Nikki as very smart herself and Ron is the head of mall security (and an adult), this is an impressive feat for Jade.
The fact that Jade knows a lot about Jonesy, including Jonesy’s blood type, favorite condiments on hot dogs, and when he first heard his favorite band really adds to Jade’s intelligence (she’s certainly smarter than her older cousin Jude). What’s The Competition Like?
Jade is arguably the most cunning and charismatic character on the show. The only one I can think of that might be as manipulative and devious as Jade is Tricia. However Tricia is shown to be a very petty and smug Alpha Bitch with zero charm to her and receives Laser-Guided Karma on a semi-regular basis, while Jade is very charming with her deviousness and actually succeeds in her mind with her goals.
Is She a Bastard? Is She Too Much of a Bastard?
To sum everything up Jade frames Nikki for “shoplifting”, steals a mall security guard’s keys, and uses them to blackmail Jonesy into becoming her “boyfriend”. I’d say that she’s enough of a bastard to count.
That said Jade never really delves into any petty nor deplorable acts of villainy, and wanting to have Jonesy be her boyfriend is really just an innocent and harmless Precocious Crush from a child,(keep in mind this is a show aimed for preteens so yeah we’re not delving into those stuff) and lets Nikki be with Jonesy at the end.
Final Verdict?
I will leave it to you guys to decide
BTW here the link to the episode with Jade in it
Edited by G-Editor on Dec 1st 2019 at 4:31:53 AM
Okay... Time to get this off my chest.
I was using the Ace Attorney Wiki (since the game didn't have an English patch at the time) for reference to fill in the blanks for my argument for him counting. I must have misread something as I feel awful now that I got it wrong.
I truly am sorry.
I'm not going to say anything else.
Abstain on Jade.
Edited by Klavice on Dec 1st 2019 at 3:07:08 AM
Welcome to the thread and I hope the search function acts more cooperative for you, I know it can be a pain in the ass for some people. Anyways, I'll start you with his effort post made here
.