During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
- Why do a cleanup?: This trope definitely exists and has a well documented history of use. That being said, it frequently gets misused to a character who meets one of the components, namely that they are smart, charming while not necessarily even being a villain, or create good plans. While these are components, there is also a certain personality required, not to mention that all of the above are required to be present for a character to be a true Magnificent Bastard. As the trope attracts interest, it unfortunately brings in a lot of misuse and I thought the best way to rectify this would be a Perpetual Cleanup Thread, as is being done and has seen success with Complete Monster.
- What makes a Magnificent Bastard: Below is a list of the individual components to make this character. Note that they must all be present, not just some, which has lead to frequent misuse:
- Must be intelligent: Goes without saying, to be a Magnificent Bastard, the character has to be smart in the first place and use their brain to work towards whatever their end goal may be;
- Must be a Bastard: While going overboard in how vile the character is can be detrimental, a key aspect is the Bastard part of the trope, whether the character is an out-and-out antagonist in the work, some manner of Villain Protagonist, or something in between, they at least have some unscrupulous qualities to qualify for this trope;
- Must not be too detestable: Again, there is a ceiling on how bad the character can be before they just become too nefarious, blocking out the Magnificent part of the trope. A genocidal racist or child-raping Sadist aren't going to make the cut;
- Think on their feet: In addition to being a Chessmaster, a Magnificent Bastard, if the character deals with situations in which their initial plan is ruined, has to be able to pull a Xanatos Speed Chess and at least come up with a competent strategy to make up for lost time, otherwise they fail for being unable to think in tough spots;
- Have charm: Even if they don't necessarily make every character they meet fall in love with them and can even be detested by others, the audience has to find an amicable social relation to the character, or they are failing to make the impact required for this trope.
- What to do if a character is listed on a page but has not been approved?: They need to be removed, all candidates need to come through the cleanup thread first. The character could well count but they need to be analyzed properly and voted on first.
- Do we list Playing With this trope?: No; as a YMMV trope, this cannot be Played With, so we only want examples that are Played Straight.
- What do I do if I want a character to be listed as a Magnificent Bastard?: The greatest success Complete Monster saw for its cleanup effort was from the invention of the effort post format, so, borrowing from that, a troper wishing to propose a Magnificent Bastard will create such a post in the following format:
- Begin by describing The work, this will help establish the setting the character is in and for the reader to understand what kind of a scenario they are in;
- Summarize The character's actions, this will provide a listing for readers to understand what they do and how it applies to this trope because charm and lack of smugness are so crucial, this is a good time to be incorporating exactly the flavor of how they operate to explain this;
- List circumstances in which the character must Think on their feet, these are times where a wrench might be thrown in their initial plan and they have to adapt on the spot or even come up with a new scheme all together, this is also a good time to explain how the villain reacts to defeat when they have to face it, a true Magnificent Bastard won't break down into tears at the thought of death, they should have known such a possibility could occur and be able to handle it with more dignity;
- The competition, similar to the Heinous Standard dealt with for a Complete Monster, this section is to deal with how successful the character is in carrying out their plans compared to other characters. While, as a villain, they probably are going to lose in the end, it is good to explain how other characters handle the same situation. There is no exceptionalism case to be made for this trope but explaining the variety helps the reader have a better understanding of the proposal.
- How do you know when the character's arc is done so they can be proposed? When their tenure as a villain or antagonist finishes. This could happen in a single Story Arc in an entire work, a single work of a franchise, or the whole series in general. We'll show lenience to Long-Runners with constantly recurring candidates or series with outstanding continuities (ex. comic books), and it's entirely possible to count in a work or two but not in general for a reason like Depending on the Writer.
- What about candidates evil because of external sources? Those Made of Evil can qualify if they show enough individuality and tactical acumen — in other words, they have the personality to fulfill the magnificence requirement. Conversely, those brainwashed, especially if they're a better person without it, may fail the individuality aspect and cannot count.
- What if they are under orders from a higher-up? Depends. If the boss created the plans down to the letter and the candidate is just following them, sounds like we should discuss the boss instead. However, if the candidate takes creative liberties with the orders, adds their own charm and flair to them, fills in holes in the orders, and/or actively deals with obstacles their boss did not talk about, the candidate shows enough individual thinking to qualify.
- What about Character Development? An MB is something a character can develop into... a nice person who plots well might become more morally gray as the work goes on and hits the "Bastard" criteria, thus making them viable. Likewise, a Smug Snake might shed their ego, become more understanding of the threat others pose and gain the personality or "Magnificent" criteria, likewise making them viable. Conversely, a character who looks like this trope might suffer from a Sanity Slippage or just get outed as not being as smart as they thought they were and become incompatible with MB.
- Can an MB be a good guy? Not in the conventional sense... it is required they have at least some dubious traits lest they fail the "Bastard" criteria. That being said, a character who pulls a Heel–Face Turn or eventually stops taking villainous actions is still fair game: as there was a point in time where they were both "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and they've merely adapted as time goes on. Now... if such a character begins showing other issues (i.e.: becomes prone to freak outs or starts getting outwitted) then they're compromising their Magnificence and will probably be deemed a cut. What's important is stylishly operating while at least for some time being willing to take at best underhanded methods to see a job done. A Heel–Face Turn in itself isn't a disqualifier but they do have to have been "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and afterwards can't start slipping on the former front.
- What about characters whose stories can take different routes?: When proposing a character in a form of media that has them in multiple story routes. Said character must be consistent with their characteristics in all routes. (ex.: Can't have an example who shows promise on one route yet fails in another.) The only exception is if a later installment of the series confirms the character's actions which made them worth proposing are the canon route.
- Is there a timeframe rule like with Complete Monster?: Yes, please wait two weeks until after the work has concluded before proposing a character (again, usually using the North American air date). As is the case with CM, we want to give a reasonable time frame so that everyone interested in seeing the work has done so and can participate in the discussion without having anything spoiled.
- What about groups like with Complete Monster?: This is a point of divergence between the two tropes. While CM does not allow for a single entry encompassing more than three characters lest their heinousness for crimes becomes too watered down, with MB as long as they are treated as one "unit" it is acceptable to lump all characters provided they share acts of charm and intelligence.
- Can I propose my own work's character as a Magnificent Bastard?: No, this is a YMMV subject and the creator of a content is way too biased to be able to evaluate the criteria we're looking for without a second opinion taking over. That being said, you are more than welcome to encourage someone to consume your creation and if they feel a character counts, are more than welcome to suggest them.
- My example/edit has been approved, but the example subpage is locked! How do I get it added?: The moderators do not add examples to locked example subpages in the MagnificentBastard/ namespace directly. Rather, you need to do the edit to a sandbox page that follows the format Sandbox.MagnificentBastard<Name of the example subpage> (e.g for MagnificentBastard.Fullmetal Alchemist it's Sandbox.Magnificent Bastard Fullmetal Alchemist) and on a Friday, ask in the locked pages edit requests thread for the content to be swapped in.
Thread rules
When voting a troper must specify the effort post they're voting on and cannot merely vote on "Everything I missed" as in the past it has indicated the poster didn't read the effort post and is guessing instead of analyzing.
Resolved items
In general, a character listed on this trope is considered "settled". This means they should not be challenged unless information used to list them was incorrect or information was missed in the initial discussion.
However, when re-litigating a candidate, the same rules apply for when they were originally proposed. If they do not have five or more upvotes than downvotes for approval upon a re-litigation, including votes from the initial discussion if they do not change, then they are a cut.
This especially applies to the characters listed below, who have been discussed excessively and repeated attempts to get them listed/cut may result in punitive action for bogging down the thread.
Definitely an MB
- Pokémon Mystery Dungeon: Explorers: Any sadism Darkrai displays is limited in effect thanks to the game's nature and any cowardice which can be inferred about him is Alternative Character Interpretation about his tactical retreats.
- Avatar: The Last Airbender: Azula's Villainous Breakdown is undone in the sequel comic Smoke & Shadow where she regains her composure and ends up stable and in control enough to count.
Definitely not an MB
- South Park: The show's frequent use of vulgar comedy and mean-spirited humor leaves any potential candidates devoid of the dignity or charm to qualify.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:15:22 AM
Yes to Goldstein, Ayami, and Sunset.
The Work: Psych
The Candidate
Wally from Zero to Murder in 60 Seconds
The episode opens with Lassie's car being stolen. Shawn deduces that the culprit was a valet at a high end restaurant, and they go there to investigate. They learn that a new valet started the previous day, but didn't show up to work today. The number they provided is from a payphone in front of a chop shop. He leads the SBPD to the chop shop, but not before getting Lassie's car out first.
The department finds ample evidence to send the ringleader, Wally, directly to jail. Shawn and Gus have solved a case in record time, and they are congratulated for a job well done. Just one problem - it was solved in record time, and Shawn feels that the job was done too well. He wants to reopen the case, but the cops are considering it closed and Gus is more interested in a spa vacation.
Shawn visits Wally in jail. He learns that he hasn't posted bail, but Wally insists that he will spend his time, banking on getting out through good behavior. Shawn also discovers that someone named Jonny G. has been visiting Wally regularly. Jonny G. is the owner of "Bling It On", a Custom Car Shop. Shawn gets in by having The Blueberry pimped out (much to Gus' horror), and takes note of the serial numbers of various car parts and accessories.
As they drive off, the duo are pulled over by Mc Nab, and a dog from the K9 unit jumps out of the squad car and starts barking at The Blueberry and sniffing the front car's front tire. Mc Nab apologizes, explaining the dog is still in training, then leaves. The duo head to the police station with the newly discovered information, but it turns out that the parts purchased legitimately. As Shawn is still convinced that there's something not right at the car shop, he and Gus decide to go back to do more investigating. They find out that a fleet of cars is being shipped to Arizona, and Gus picks up a wheel rim, commenting on its light weight.
Shawn manages to deduce that Jonny G. has been smuggling drugs out of state inside car parts, explaining why the rim was so light and why the police dog barked at their car. Shawn theorizes that Wally is the fall guy for a bigger drug operation, but the duo return to "Bling It On" to find Jonny G. dead inside a car from a nitrous oxide leak.
Shawn and Gus go visit Wally again, who insists that he had nothing to do with the drug operation and was just the front man for the chop shop. However, Shawn realizes that not only was he the mastermind behind the smuggling ring, he's also somehow responsible for Jonny G.'s death while behind bars. Jail gave Wally the perfect alibi and with Jonny G. out of the way, he'd have sole control of the custom car shop and the drug operation. Shawn's suspicions are confirmed when he finds out that Wally finally posted bail, and Shawn realizes that the shipping (aka the drug deal) is going down today. He and Gus get Lassie and Jules to crash the drug deal location, and arrive in time to catch Wally exchanging the cars for cash. Shawn also reveals the drugs in the car rim, leading to Wally's arrest.
It turns out that Wally stole Lassie's car with the intention of being caught, so that he would be in jail when Johnny G. died. Wally knew that Jonny G. always checked the cars himself before delivery and rigged the nitrous oxide container to leak, knowing it would kill him.
Magnificence
His scheme almost goes off without a hitch. Everyone but Shawn is content with the case being open and shut, and Shawn himself doesn't suspect him at first, initially believing him to be a fall guy.
He does pass himself off as somewhat goofy (I'm not sure if I'm using the right word), but the humor is never at his expense, and it is never made clear whether he is acting up a part or whether is is always like that.
He also takes his defeat pretty well, after Lassie cuffs him and Shawn reveals the drugs in the wheel rim
Bastardry
He co-runs a drug smuggling ring, and he murders his partner so that he can take full control of the operation
Dagded Dujardin
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Goldstein, Ayami, Keisuke, Sunset and Drug Lord
to Wally.
Alright so, Here’s my third candidate from Hanna the titular character herself, Hanna.
Who Is She? What Has She Done?
Hanna is the main protagonist of the series who was taken from the UTRAX facility by Erik Heller who was raised to becoming a ruthless and efficient assassin like Heller who was given a mission from Heller to kill Marissa Wiegler, the woman who killed Hanna’s mother who was also the woman Heller fell in love with.
Hanna would allow herself to be captured by Marissa’s forces she that she could get close enough to kill her. However Hanna would be overpowered by Marissa’s men causing her flee where she tries with Heller travels with a vacationing family as she transverse throughout Europe, befriending the girl Sophie along the way.
Hanna would leave Sophie and her family after reuniting with Heller where after learning that about Heller isn’t her biological father and the experiments UTRAX conducted, Hanna decides to help Heller raid the facility anyway, claiming that Heller is still her father regardless of blood, where Hanna is able to escape the facility along with one trainee Girl 249 / Clara Mahan, with the help of Heller who sacrificed his life and Marissa who pulled a Heel–Face Turn.
Hanna and Clara track down the rest of the trainees being transferred to The Meadows where they pretend to be the other trainees to blend inside so that they could learn more about UTRAX and the organization Pioneer, while Hanna takes the alias Mia Wolfe. Though Clara seems to develop a kinship with the girls in UTRAX and decides to stay in the Meadows causing Hanna to stay to keep Clara safe while having Marissa arrested by Pioneer when she tries to get Hanna out.
Hanna would be sent on her first mission on the Meadows where she decides to go against UTRAX upon learning that she’s assigned to kill a journalist and his entire family, children included where she saves the journalist and his family from the assassins while convincing Clara to do the same before reuniting Clara with her biological mother
She and Marissa would then blackmail John Carmichael into getting Hanna reinstated within the UTRAX program where Hanna would maintain her cover as she slowly dismantles the program within while also saving all the lives that she was assigned to kill by faking their deaths, which works flawlessly for a while until her cover gets blown.
Going to hiding She and Marissa would then break in to where the assassination list is being created, destroying the computer that created the list and shooting the guy who created the computer, Max Kaplan. However the copy turns out to be fake where Hanna then gets captured by Gordon Evans, where Evans threatens the lives of Hanna’s Love Interest, Abbas Nazir, and his daughter unless Hanna hands over Marissa.
Though Hanna is aware that Evans won’t hold his end of the bargain, where she uses him to learn that Max is still alive and discreetly tells Marissa about the news while fooling everyone else into believing that she’s trying to convince Marissa to surrender herself and upon arrive in Evans headquarters, Hanna turns on the bad guys before she and Marissa head to where Max is being held threatening to kill him unless they give them the real copy.
Of course, Hanna and Marissa leave Max to die after he gives them the copy where Hanna goes to where Evans forces are going to kill Abbas and his daughter, disguising herself as one of Evans’ soldiers before killing off soldiers one by one. Eventually with Marissa’s help, Hanna is able to drive all the soldiers away while Marissa kills Evans, and helps Miller expose all of Pioneer’s evil deeds to the public before, giving Abbas and his daughter new identities to start over, while Hanna herself is able to start a new life.
Is She Intelligent? Is She Charismatic?
As someone whose been trained to be an assassin all her life, Hanna proves herself to be brilliantly and charismatic, orchestrating many assassinations and rescues right under the publics noses and playing both sides to her own ends all while she never looses her cool, even in the most dire of situations. She would also learn how to drive a car use modern technology, allowing herself to blend even more so in public and become even more efficient.
What’s The Competition Like?
As the main character, Hanna is given the most of focus which to say she is able to use the spotlight to show us why she is one of the most cunning, charismatic, and badass characters in the whole show being able to play everyone for her own ends. There might be one more person left who could be considered after this, but yeah Hanna definitely wins the competition here.
Is She a Bitch? Is She Too Much Of a Bitch?
Well Hanna is an assassin who has already killed many people without hesitation during her teenage years, does put an innocent family in danger by hitchhiking with them, does briefly join UTRAX where she has them arrest Marissa, has no problem resorting to blackmailing people to get what she wants and leave them to die once she got what she wants to yeah, I think she’s enough of a bitch to be considered.
That said, Hanna is not too much of a bitch as she never resorts to any cruel nor sadistic actions, does care about the family she’s putting in danger, namely Sophie, only joined UTRAX for a brief moment so she could protect Clara when the latter becomes enamored with them before turning on them upon learning how evil they are and convincing Clara to do the same.
It is also worth noting that the majority of people she does the horrible things to are horrible people themselves, with Carmichael whom Hanna blackmails being a Smug Snake who sends girls to kill people while Max, who Hanna leaves to die after she got what she wanted from him, is a Dirty Coward who created the list of innocent people for the girls to kill and just been approved as a Complete Monster.
Final Verdict?
I will leave it up to you guys.
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
not entirely sure on the film version. I don't think that the film version meets the bastard credentials as the tv one does, since the television expands on the story while giving Hanna there more to work with
Edited by G-Editor on Feb 9th 2022 at 12:32:37 PM
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
What about the film version too by the way?
Wanted to actually see the show first, but based on the EP, to Hanna.
Edited by futuremoviewriter on Feb 9th 2022 at 9:35:16 AM
Future, actually vote.
Yes to Hanna
asking a question like that without a vote is rude.
Edited by Lightysnake on Feb 9th 2022 at 9:53:36 AM
Professor Gigachad
Wally and Hannah.
Ultimate Moral Compass
Wally and Hanna
The Draftsman of Doom
Yes to Hanna and Wally.
Edited by SkyCat32 on Feb 9th 2022 at 1:00:38 PM
Goku Black
Hanna and Wally.
Yes to Wally and Hanna.
Wally.
Wait reading that EP, all of Hanna's cunning and planning happens after she makes a Heel–Face Turn? She decides to save innocents and bring down the assassin organization? Like blackmailing a villain is not a bastardly thing to do, if you are a blackmailing someone villainous, it's in service of a noble goal, and only bad people will get hurt.
You can only write so much in your forum signature. It's not fair that I want to write a piece of writing yet it will cut me off in the mid
@ Jjj2: Not all of Hanna's cunning and planning happens after her Heel–Face Turn. During Season 1 she was willing to kill someone who feels great remorse for her actions, and when she was finding Erik she manipulates an innocent family into taking her in claiming to be a drifter, aware that she is putting them all in danger, while in Season 2 she's willing to betray Marissa, who had a Heel–Face Turn at the time, to UTRAX while Hanna was briefly with them. Also She is a killer around 15-18 years of age whose already killed people without much hesitation so I think that puts her enough in the bastard category
Edited by G-Editor on Feb 9th 2022 at 3:15:22 PM
I just see that as fleeing a villainous organization. Heroes do that sometimes and try to keep what they're up against on the down low so people don't get hurt or panic. Even betraying Marissa I'm struggling to see as too bad. And reading a recap of the episode Welcome Mia, I'm not getting that Hanna betrayed Marissa. Having read the A Way to grieve recap, it seems to insinuate she betrays Marissa because she's emotionally broken and it was accidental as well. If this is true, I do not appreciate the EP making the impression that it was a willing betrayal.
I think I'm leaning ![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
.
Clara was the one shot Marissa but Hanna went along with it and allowed Utrax to arrest Marissa. Plus Hanna was only showing grievance of loosing her father when she was bonding with the other operatives while when She was confronting Marissa when the latter was getting captured Hanna shows herself to be calm and composed.
I also did mentioned that Hanna was willing to put a innocent family in danger during her search for Erik.
I’m not trying to sway you (or anyone) from voting the way they want, I just want to elaborate on why I think she’s enough of a bastard to still be considered
Edited by G-Editor on Feb 9th 2022 at 3:21:36 PM
Showtime!
Abstain on Hanna, per J's concerns
Absolute destiny... apeachalypse?
Ultimate Moral Compass
So while I'm finished with the Disaster Report games, I have another game about natural disasters I want to cover.
What's the work?
Disaster: Day of Crisis is a Wii-exclusive game from 2008 that’s basically what if Disaster Report was directed by Michael Bay. Despite playing like a ridiculous Hollywood blockbuster, it was only released in Japan and Europe, due to poor sales that prevented a North American release.
When seismologist Dr. Davis and his assistant Lisa Hewitt are kidnapped by a rogue military group known as SURGE, it’s up to former marine and Crisis Management Division operative Raymond “Ray” Bryce to save not only the hostages, but also entire cities from a series of natural disasters that have resulted from SURGE’s actions, and maybe a nuke or two. Ray must use nothing but his agility, his spikey hair, his 2000s tribal tattoo, and his ability to eat a burger the size of his head to save as many lives as he can. It's going to be a very long day for him.
I have two candidates to propose, so let’s start with the easiest one.
Who is He?
Colonel Haynes is the commander of SURGE who wants to bring closure to his fallen soldiers.
What does he do?
Originally the head of a marine special forces unit sent to train anti-government guerillas in South America, when the US government started supporting the corrupt South American government, they wiped out both SURGE and the guerillas they were training via a nearby volcano. Believed to be dead, the US government covered up the attack by branding SURGE as traitors. Let’s just say that Haynes… didn’t take this well, especially since he had witnessed his men die painful, fiery deaths.
Kidnapping Davis and his assistant Lisa to help him create some natural disasters, Haynes uses an earthquake to confuse a nuclear base’s soldiers and lead a successful raid on said base as a way to steal three nuclear warheads to commence his plan. Securing a temporary base in the form of an abandoned nuclear plant near Blue Ridge City, Haynes sends a message to the president to make his demands clear: 1) Haynes wants $200 million, half of which will be given to the families of the deceased SURGE soldiers; and 2) Haynes wants the truth of what happened to him and his supposedly traitorous soldiers exposed to the public. If the demands aren’t met within 24 hours, they’ll nuke a part of the country. And to prevent the government from trying to stop them, Haynes launches a series of earthquakes and tsunamis upon Blue Ridge City with the help of Davis, knowing that his men are capable of running missions under unique conditions, a tactic that actually works.
When Ray acquires one of the nuke detonators after escaping a tsunami, Haynes makes a deal with Ray: hand him the detonator, and he’ll hand over Lisa. When Ray arrives at their base, he finds that Haynes never had a use for the detonator now that the nuke’s lost at sea, and just wanted to kill him. With Ray being saved by the erupting Mt. Rosalia, Haynes gets Lisa and Davis to go with them as their hostages; cause after all, if they stay, they’ll die.
When Ray later arrives at SURGE’s new base in Bainsville, Haynes is persuaded by Ray to save two kids about to drown, mainly because Ray insulted the honor of the SURGE name and he wanted to show that he can still honor the oath of SURGE. When the psychotic mercenary Banks tries to kill Ray afterwards, Haynes tells him to stand down, then has Ray imprisoned in their base. But this makes Haynes have a change of heart; calling off the entire mission because the government saw through his bluff about using the nukes, Haynes shoots the psychotic mercenary Banks when he tries to activate the nukes himself, killing him just in time. But then, his sidekick Evans betrays Haynes by shooting him during an incoming flood, taking his spot as leader of SURGE.
So Haynes is dead now… or is he?
After Evans activates the last nuke on a ferry he and Ray face each other on, Haynes miraculously shows up to shoot Evans in the forehead. Haynes helps guide Ray to disarm the nuke hidden on the ferry, though despite the disarming being successful, Evans had planted bombs over the ship that detonate upon the nuke’s disarming. Haynes helps Ray and Lisa get off the ship, choosing to instead stay behind and sink with the ship.
Is he charming? Intelligent? Able to think on his feet?
You remember Ed Harris’s character from The Rock? Yeah, that’s basically Haynes. He’s an anti-villain capable of outsmarting his opponents, the US government, and even his own traitorous allies, and only dies because he chose to.
Is he a bastard? Too much of one?
Haynes is ultimately a terrorist who has killed thousands of people from natural disasters he caused, hoping to make the US government feel guilty over what happened to them, and threatens to use several nukes to cause more chaos.
But he has a heart. He genuinely cares for his men, and takes great care to honor the pride of those who’ve fallen. A Father to His Men he most definitely is.
The competition?
While I have another SURGE member I think might fit the bill, Haynes easily ticks off everything it takes to be a classic MB, from his intelligence, to being an expert strategist, to just being a morally ambiguous bad guy.
Verdict?
Keeper
Edited by therealjackieboy on Feb 9th 2022 at 12:29:17 PM
"No running in the halls!"
Sure to Wally and Haynes. Abstain on Hanna.
Edited by YobabyColin on Feb 9th 2022 at 3:48:32 PM
Goku Black
Haynes.
Yea to Haynes and I got a quote from Vampire the Masquerade, Winter's Teeth:
"Ali De Luna told herself a story. She told herself she wanted what her father wanted. She wanted to become a great vampire hunter. She wanted to infiltrate the domain. She wanted to destroy the court from within.. But the story wasn't strong enough to cover up the real truth for long. The truth was Ali wanted to be loved. TO be respected. All Ali De Luna, a lonely ignored outcast from the middle of nowhere ever really wanted...was power."
Yes to Haynes. Retracting vote on Hanna.
Goku Black
I love it
Btw have you seen the finale of Boba Fett. I want to PM you about it but want to know if you've seen it first.
Tbh I'm kinda not sure on Hanna. Could we discuss this more ?
Edited by miraculous on Feb 9th 2022 at 1:45:20 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Okay so trying to emphasis on Hanna bastard credentials
Hanna was trained to be a killer by her adoptive father having already killed many people throughout the show while she is still only a teenager without any remorse or hesitation
In Season 1, Hanna tries to kill a woman who showed clear remorse and regret for her actions, and when hiding from Marissa's men and finding Erik, Hanna manipulates an innocent family into taking her in fully aware that she's putting them in danger.
In Season 2, Hanna was willing to betray Marissa to protect Clara not showing much regret in allowing Utrax to arrest Marissa and still maintaining her composure.
I think she’s enough of a bastard to still be considered, but everyone is free to to vote how they want and wether Hanna gets approved or not, I'll be fine with the result and move on
Yes to Haynes, who is basically General Hummel from The Rock.
I hope you do Evans on CM. I've had my eye on him for years since not long after I watched the Two Best Friends Play LP of that game, but always put him off.
...Disaster Day of Crisis was done by Monolith? The Xenoblade guys?
Yes to Goldstein, Ayami, Keisuke and Sunset.