During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
- Why do a cleanup?: This trope definitely exists and has a well documented history of use. That being said, it frequently gets misused to a character who meets one of the components, namely that they are smart, charming while not necessarily even being a villain, or create good plans. While these are components, there is also a certain personality required, not to mention that all of the above are required to be present for a character to be a true Magnificent Bastard. As the trope attracts interest, it unfortunately brings in a lot of misuse and I thought the best way to rectify this would be a Perpetual Cleanup Thread, as is being done and has seen success with Complete Monster.
- What makes a Magnificent Bastard: Below is a list of the individual components to make this character. Note that they must all be present, not just some, which has lead to frequent misuse:
- Must be intelligent: Goes without saying, to be a Magnificent Bastard, the character has to be smart in the first place and use their brain to work towards whatever their end goal may be;
- Must be a Bastard: While going overboard in how vile the character is can be detrimental, a key aspect is the Bastard part of the trope, whether the character is an out-and-out antagonist in the work, some manner of Villain Protagonist, or something in between, they at least have some unscrupulous qualities to qualify for this trope;
- Must not be too detestable: Again, there is a ceiling on how bad the character can be before they just become too nefarious, blocking out the Magnificent part of the trope. A genocidal racist or child-raping Sadist aren't going to make the cut;
- Think on their feet: In addition to being a Chessmaster, a Magnificent Bastard, if the character deals with situations in which their initial plan is ruined, has to be able to pull a Xanatos Speed Chess and at least come up with a competent strategy to make up for lost time, otherwise they fail for being unable to think in tough spots;
- Have charm: Even if they don't necessarily make every character they meet fall in love with them and can even be detested by others, the audience has to find an amicable social relation to the character, or they are failing to make the impact required for this trope.
- What to do if a character is listed on a page but has not been approved?: They need to be removed, all candidates need to come through the cleanup thread first. The character could well count but they need to be analyzed properly and voted on first.
- Do we list Playing With this trope?: No; as a YMMV trope, this cannot be Played With, so we only want examples that are Played Straight.
- What do I do if I want a character to be listed as a Magnificent Bastard?: The greatest success Complete Monster saw for its cleanup effort was from the invention of the effort post format, so, borrowing from that, a troper wishing to propose a Magnificent Bastard will create such a post in the following format:
- Begin by describing The work, this will help establish the setting the character is in and for the reader to understand what kind of a scenario they are in;
- Summarize The character's actions, this will provide a listing for readers to understand what they do and how it applies to this trope because charm and lack of smugness are so crucial, this is a good time to be incorporating exactly the flavor of how they operate to explain this;
- List circumstances in which the character must Think on their feet, these are times where a wrench might be thrown in their initial plan and they have to adapt on the spot or even come up with a new scheme all together, this is also a good time to explain how the villain reacts to defeat when they have to face it, a true Magnificent Bastard won't break down into tears at the thought of death, they should have known such a possibility could occur and be able to handle it with more dignity;
- The competition, similar to the Heinous Standard dealt with for a Complete Monster, this section is to deal with how successful the character is in carrying out their plans compared to other characters. While, as a villain, they probably are going to lose in the end, it is good to explain how other characters handle the same situation. There is no exceptionalism case to be made for this trope but explaining the variety helps the reader have a better understanding of the proposal.
- How do you know when the character's arc is done so they can be proposed? When their tenure as a villain or antagonist finishes. This could happen in a single Story Arc in an entire work, a single work of a franchise, or the whole series in general. We'll show lenience to Long-Runners with constantly recurring candidates or series with outstanding continuities (ex. comic books), and it's entirely possible to count in a work or two but not in general for a reason like Depending on the Writer.
- What about candidates evil because of external sources? Those Made of Evil can qualify if they show enough individuality and tactical acumen — in other words, they have the personality to fulfill the magnificence requirement. Conversely, those brainwashed, especially if they're a better person without it, may fail the individuality aspect and cannot count.
- What if they are under orders from a higher-up? Depends. If the boss created the plans down to the letter and the candidate is just following them, sounds like we should discuss the boss instead. However, if the candidate takes creative liberties with the orders, adds their own charm and flair to them, fills in holes in the orders, and/or actively deals with obstacles their boss did not talk about, the candidate shows enough individual thinking to qualify.
- What about Character Development? An MB is something a character can develop into... a nice person who plots well might become more morally gray as the work goes on and hits the "Bastard" criteria, thus making them viable. Likewise, a Smug Snake might shed their ego, become more understanding of the threat others pose and gain the personality or "Magnificent" criteria, likewise making them viable. Conversely, a character who looks like this trope might suffer from a Sanity Slippage or just get outed as not being as smart as they thought they were and become incompatible with MB.
- Can an MB be a good guy? Not in the conventional sense... it is required they have at least some dubious traits lest they fail the "Bastard" criteria. That being said, a character who pulls a Heel–Face Turn or eventually stops taking villainous actions is still fair game: as there was a point in time where they were both "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and they've merely adapted as time goes on. Now... if such a character begins showing other issues (i.e.: becomes prone to freak outs or starts getting outwitted) then they're compromising their Magnificence and will probably be deemed a cut. What's important is stylishly operating while at least for some time being willing to take at best underhanded methods to see a job done. A Heel–Face Turn in itself isn't a disqualifier but they do have to have been "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and afterwards can't start slipping on the former front.
- What about characters whose stories can take different routes?: When proposing a character in a form of media that has them in multiple story routes. Said character must be consistent with their characteristics in all routes. (ex.: Can't have an example who shows promise on one route yet fails in another.) The only exception is if a later installment of the series confirms the character's actions which made them worth proposing are the canon route.
- Is there a timeframe rule like with Complete Monster?: Yes, please wait two weeks until after the work has concluded before proposing a character (again, usually using the North American air date). As is the case with CM, we want to give a reasonable time frame so that everyone interested in seeing the work has done so and can participate in the discussion without having anything spoiled.
- What about groups like with Complete Monster?: This is a point of divergence between the two tropes. While CM does not allow for a single entry encompassing more than three characters lest their heinousness for crimes becomes too watered down, with MB as long as they are treated as one "unit" it is acceptable to lump all characters provided they share acts of charm and intelligence.
- Can I propose my own work's character as a Magnificent Bastard?: No, this is a YMMV subject and the creator of a content is way too biased to be able to evaluate the criteria we're looking for without a second opinion taking over. That being said, you are more than welcome to encourage someone to consume your creation and if they feel a character counts, are more than welcome to suggest them.
- My example/edit has been approved, but the example subpage is locked! How do I get it added?: The moderators do not add examples to locked example subpages in the MagnificentBastard/ namespace directly. Rather, you need to do the edit to a sandbox page that follows the format Sandbox.MagnificentBastard<Name of the example subpage> (e.g for MagnificentBastard.Fullmetal Alchemist it's Sandbox.Magnificent Bastard Fullmetal Alchemist) and on a Friday, ask in the locked pages edit requests thread for the content to be swapped in.
Thread rules
When voting a troper must specify the effort post they're voting on and cannot merely vote on "Everything I missed" as in the past it has indicated the poster didn't read the effort post and is guessing instead of analyzing.
Resolved items
In general, a character listed on this trope is considered "settled". This means they should not be challenged unless information used to list them was incorrect or information was missed in the initial discussion.
However, when re-litigating a candidate, the same rules apply for when they were originally proposed. If they do not have five or more upvotes than downvotes for approval upon a re-litigation, including votes from the initial discussion if they do not change, then they are a cut.
This especially applies to the characters listed below, who have been discussed excessively and repeated attempts to get them listed/cut may result in punitive action for bogging down the thread.
Definitely an MB
- Pokémon Mystery Dungeon: Explorers: Any sadism Darkrai displays is limited in effect thanks to the game's nature and any cowardice which can be inferred about him is Alternative Character Interpretation about his tactical retreats.
- Avatar: The Last Airbender: Azula's Villainous Breakdown is undone in the sequel comic Smoke & Shadow where she regains her composure and ends up stable and in control enough to count.
Definitely not an MB
- South Park: The show's frequent use of vulgar comedy and mean-spirited humor leaves any potential candidates devoid of the dignity or charm to qualify.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:15:22 AM
On the Ace Attorney posts, I have no issues with Damon Gant, Calisto Yew, Aura Blackquill, or Pierce Nichody.
I have a slight issue with Simon Keyes. Keyes is a very worthy candidate, I just have a few minor issues on details. He doesn't foil the assassination attempt on the president's body double. He's the one who HIRED the assassin. Keyes also doesn't get Edgeworth to defend him in court, as Edgeworth is a prosecutor. He DOES get Edgeworth to defend him and prove his innocence, it was just done out of court.
I also have one minor issue with Sirhan Dogen's. It mentions an adopted son, he doesn't have an adopted son. It's referring to Simon, who sees him as a father figure, but he never actually adopted Simon. I'd probably just put Simon.
I'm unsure if Katherine Hall counts. Almost everything in the post is correct, but I'm not sure if she's enough of a bastard. Katherine is a good person whose motive is solely to kill the true murderer of the IS-7 incident which got her adopted father put in prison and prove who the true killer was. If that is enough of a qualifier for her to count, then the only issue I have with Katherine is the part where it says she "endangers the public". She meticulously created her crime so that ONLY the true murderer would be caught in the trap, and there was no danger to anybody else. If the murderer never fell for the trap, then no harm would have come to anybody.
And that's all of them. There are actually quite a few notable characters who aren't listed that I think can be put up for consideration. I might do a write up sometime soon for those characters. I think there could be enough candidates for Ace Attorney to get its own page.
Edited by TaylorHyuuga on Jan 8th 2022 at 2:10:25 AM
<DIE THE DEATH> <SENTENCE TO DEATH> <GREAT EQUALIZER IS THE DEATH>
Professor Gigachad
Simon and Dogen looks like they still keep even if part of it is inaccurate but that comment does make me a bit concerned about Hall.
CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes
I appreciate your frankness 43110, and I can't say that you're wrong.
Thank you for understanding Melinda and more than willing to move on.
Let’s talk the AA stuff now, this looks like more of a mess every time we glance at it.
As an aside the only reason it isn’t getting a page atm is just to avoid the Visual Novels one being awkwardly short.
Edited by 43110 on Jan 8th 2022 at 9:20:13 AM
Agree with Taylor's assessment of the Ace Attorney entries, though I haven't actually played Investigations II so I can't say if Hall qualifies or not.
Setting up a gas trap to kill the true murderer and no one else is one of those things where I think how much of a bastard it makes her would really depend on how the game depicts it. GAA has a similar plot point in a culprit who sets up a killer to be poisoned in such a way that he's only in danger if he attempts to murder someone else (as she had no proof he was guilty and this was a way to "catch him red-handed",) and she's portrayed pretty sympathetically.
Edited by Octoya on Jan 8th 2022 at 1:28:07 AM
Katherine sounds like a straight Guile Hero.
Yeah Katherine is much like Greene, though she was a lot more certain that the killer would fall for the trap than Greene. She's portrayed sympathetically, and the person that she is trying to kill was an awful person who got away with his murder for over 15 years. She's not portrayed as a bad person, she's portrayed as a good person trying to take revenge when she believes the law has failed and convicted her only family.
<DIE THE DEATH> <SENTENCE TO DEATH> <GREAT EQUALIZER IS THE DEATH>
Professor Gigachad
I remember Klavice making her sound viler, and making it seem like she did not care about potential casualties. Cut Katherine.
At this point I am going to have a really hard time trusting any of his Ace Attorney proposals.
CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes
Cut Kazuma and Katherine
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Oliver, Hunter, Minerva
Edited by Snowy66 on Jan 8th 2022 at 1:38:03 AM
Batman #2
Who are the Bookworm and Lydia Limpet
The Bookworm, played by Roddy Mcdowall is a literature loving failed author turned literary-themed master criminal who prepares to steal a bunch of rat books. Like many villains in the show, he has had previous run-ins with the heroes before the show. Lydia Limpet is his Moll, she isn't the planner, but has an impressive moment or two. Maybe just one of them counts, maybe both do and mayb neither does but it seemed simpler to list them together.
What do they do?
Bookworm's two-part episode begins with Commissioner Gordon seemingly being shot by a sniper and falling off a bridge, horrifying and outraging the heroes. Then, it turns out that the whole thing was a stunt are the sniper shot a blank round and an accomplice of the Bookworm posing as Gordon fell off the bridge but really was a high-diver who swam away. The real Gordon was delayed by another accomplice, a fake cop, giving him a parking ticket from Patrolman A.S. Scarlet, Badge number 1887 (a reference to The Scarlet Letter an 1887 book) . The purpose of the audacious deception is to lure Batman and Robin to police headquarters and have his Moll Lydia plant a bomb in their car while they are inside. When this fails, the Bookworm dismisses it as "Plot A" and movs onto further plans.
He leads the heroes around town before having Lydia pose as a hostage who is "rescued" after hsi goose put up a fight then run. The heroes realize Lydia's deception and use knocks out gas and truth serum on her to avoid being misled and ind out where Bookworm is really hiding. Then they give her an amnesia pill (the show has its of fantastical gadgets like that). Batman leaves while Robin unties Lydia. However, when he calls her by name even though she didn't introduce herself, she realizes she's been made and tricks him into opening a book full of knockout gas. Sh also warns Bookworm Batman is heading his way and they evacuate and tie Robin to a bell clapper as a Death Trap.
Laer, he sets another Death Trap, a giant cookbook in the street that opens to use a magnet to drag in the heroes and try to cook them. They barely get away. They find Riddler has stolen the Batmobile and uis using it to break open a safe with rare books, and apprehend the gang. Lydia stands around like a Neutral Female and then surrenders (which is standard for the show but still may hurt her magnificence) who get Put on a Prison Bus, never to be seen again except in Schrödinger's Canon spinoffs.
Magnificent
Bookworm has a good theme, some good death traps and is a decent chess master with his plans and backup plans. Lydia does a good job of outsmarting Robin at one point, which is pretty good for the show (especially in season 1, were most molls get a High-Heel–Face Turn which often felt contrived).
Bastard
When Lydia asks Bookworm why with his love of bookstand scheming genius he isn't an author himself, he has a brief tantrum ranting boat his Creative Sterility before calming down. He's also a bit surly about one of his literary quotes being corrected after his arrest. Plus there's the whole death trap thing that both of them do and show no remorse about.
The Unknown Unknown
Oliver, Hunter, Minerva. I'll say out of the Ace Attourney stuff.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
... Correct me if I'm wrong, Melinda, but:
... This makes it sound like to me he's a death-trap criminal because he's butthurt about constantly getting writers' block. That's... not a good look.
That aside until I get clarification... Phenomenally shitty start to my January after a bad holiday season (Company expenses rose quickly, workforce had to be culled, and I was among those let go). So, I'm going to distract myself temporarily with some EPs. Maybe some drinks. Ugh.
What's the work?
The first half of Fate/Grand Order delves with the "Timeless Temple" arc, where entities called Demon Pillars under their master, King Solomon of Israel, the Grand Caster, has commence the "Incineration of Humanity." Now, Chaldea, particularly through Mash Kyrielight and Ritsuka Fujimaru, must go to surviving pockets called Singularities to restore everything.
Who is the candidate? The character’s actions?
In the past, the real King Solomon was known of the King of Mages for basically setting the foundation for Magecraft and Magus in the present-day. The demons from Ars Goetia were its familiar, their right-hand, their shadow. They could (mostly) see and feel what their master did... and eventually his grief and decided on his own plan. They possessed Solomon's corpse and became Goetia, Beast I of the Evils of Humanity, representing Pity (as in "the sheer arrogance of people pitying and being disappointed in other people"). It is the mastermind behind the seven Grand Orders and the attacks on the Human Order.
After "Goetia" first appears in the London Singularity as well as being the masterminded of Tiamat's release in the "Babylonia" one, Chaldea eventually discovered the trace of Solomon and his Time Temple. Taking things more seriously, Goetia's power caused the Demon Pillars appearing everywhere in Chaldea, forcing Ritsuka and their friends set out to fight against them in order to eliminate them all. However, when things were its bleakest, the many Heroic Spirits we befriended along the way show up (this manifested in the form server-wide Raids for players... it was an amazing experience).
Ritsuka and Mash take the fight to Goetia, which was exactly its plan. If he killed Chaldea's Master, the Spirits will be gone and the Pillars would be free to strike again. After his Grand Caster form is defeated, Goetia expresses impressed respect with Ritsuka and Mash's resilience. Then, Goetia revealed his true form and his identity as the Beast I. During their fight, Goetia attempted to convince Mash to join him in creating a world where death no longer existed. However, Mash declined and resolved to reject Goetia and his view of life. Disappointed, Goetia unleased his final Noble Phantasm, Ars Almadel Salomonis, at Mash and Ritsuka, but she uses Lord Camelot to protect Ritsuka at the cost of her own life.
Then, Dr. Romani, the Butt-Monkey and Comic Relief of the group, suddenly appears and reveals himself as the TRUE Solomon, using his own Noble Phantasm to revert the disaster as the cost of his existence. Goetia, unfettered, tries to salvage what's left. The sheer resolve manifests in a two-fold final battle, capping off his somber fight as "Goetia, King of Man." After this final confrontation, Goetia accepted his defeat, stating that the briefness of human life is surprisingly interesting.
Magnificent (Charming, Charismatic, Intelligent, Adaptable, etc.)? Why or why not?
Okay, so... I initially dismissed Goetia behind the scenes because I wondered what exactly did they do that approached anything resembling strategic, ingenious, tactical, any of like that. That was until I took a closer look at the finer details. Turns out, Goetia played a mean long con. The titular "Grand Order?" Started by it. In ensuring Family Crests containing information of the various Ars Goetia lived on through Magus bloodlines, Goetia put the pieces in place to start his grand master plan. This is best seen when Lev, itself a Demon Pillar in human flesh acting on Goetia's directive, in the prologue essentially kicked off the Incineration of Humanity when we're all looooooooong unaware of Goetia's existence. There are other little smatterings of strategy rounding out the plan, such as possessing Solomon's corpse to have Nine of the Ten Rings that kept him under control AND keeping itself hidden.
As for other factors... Goetia (under the guise of Solomon) did show up in London essentially to trash-talk the heroes, blow them the fuck out to show the gulf of power between them, and say they aren't worth his time. To his credit... they absolutely weren't, but calling them "lower than piss" and not finishing them off was a pretty noticeable act of hubris. That was also a reason I at first overlooked them. However, Goetia does come to see Ritsuka and the rest of Chaldea as genuine threats and later takes them much more seriously, pulling out at the necessary stops to ensure they can't stop his final gambit.
Also, Goetia does suffer a bit of Villainous Breakdown in the Timeless Throne when Romani, in actuality Solomon, arrives to detail his plan with the Tenth Ring. I don't think there was any possible way Goetia would've known Romani's identity, even moreso because he'd spent so much time with Solomon in life that he knew him too well. Because the Solomon it knew wouldn't act the way he did. That's more of a personal failing than intellectual. Even then, it eventually comes to understand the concept of humanity even though it prefers immortality. As the King of Man, he even wistfully states, "It was... a good life" before fading for good. Lastly, his profile on the Character Page says it was Out-Gambitted by God retroactively...... but how the hell can you plan against literal divine intervention?
In short, Goetia does have a long-term strategy going on while keeping his true self under wraps. Any normally mitigating moments is undone by acts of Character Development, topped off with a memorably impactful climax and somber end as the King of Man.
Bastard? Not too much of one?
I mean... it's called the Incineration of Humanity. Everyone throughout Proper Human History save for the last remnants at Chaldea were burned and harvested as an energy source for Goetia's plan. Then, it wanted to time travel back to the dawn of humanity to create a more perfect, immortal brand of Humans that better suit its ideals. Eventally, it comes to understand what it means to be human, even if it doesn't particularly agree, and comes out with its self-respect and newfound understanding intact.
Competition?
Goetia was the biggest heavy-hitter in the Timeless Temple arc; it completely ran the show. Some antagonists like the Lion King, Tiamat, and Gorgon had some impact, but they're far removed from candidacy for one reason or another. Current FGO MBs come in later arcs when Goetia has already been dealt with.
Conclusion?
I'm leaning yes. There's enough smarts and enough personality factors to hit the level, but what do you guys say?
A cruel, sick joke is still a joke, and sometimes all you can do is laugh.
I was including the rant about writers block more to show that he has a couple of Mean Boss moments and insecurities, but you might have a point.
Yes to Goetia. Abstain for now on Bookworm & Lydia.
I'm inclined to agree with Erazor, Melinda. ![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
Bookworm but Lydia.
I'm sorry to hear that Erazor. I have some questions: Who is Chaldea? Is that a place or a person, I was somewhat unclear reading the EP.
You can only write so much in your forum signature. It's not fair that I want to write a piece of writing yet it will cut me off in the mid
The Unknown Unknown
Sorry I wasn't clear. They're the organization that Mashu and the Protagonist work under trying to the fix everything.
A cruel, sick joke is still a joke, and sometimes all you can do is laugh.
Okay Goetia.
Yes to Goetia, abstaining on the Bookworm.
So... what do we wanna do with the Ace Attorney stuff? Leave it for now? Cut and let Taylor and Octoya re-evaluate? Katherine I'm a definite cut on for the record.
Edited by 43110 on Jan 8th 2022 at 10:45:23 AM
Cut the ones they think are good, and let them reevaluate the others.
You can only write so much in your forum signature. It's not fair that I want to write a piece of writing yet it will cut me off in the mid
Yes to Goetia.
One thing abotu the Bookworm that may be misunderstood is I think he sets the death traps and laves clues and such because he just loves the elaborateness of a literature like plot. He may or may not have avoided crime if he was able to write plots for hsi own books (several villains in the show with honest talents still commit crimes).
Batman #3
Who is The Riddler?
The Riddler is the first villain to appear in the show but goes on to appear less often due to budget disputes. The popularity of his appearance in the show transformed him from C-List Fodder (at best) to A-List rogues gallery in the comics. He's a master criminal who's gimmick is leaving taunting riddles abotu the chimers hell pull. The Riddler appears in nine episodes (for two-parters and a single episode) and The Movie, so his description of what he does may be a bit less exact.
What does he do?
In the pilot, he seems to be The Dreaded for the cops. He gets Batman to attack him while he's legitamtiely buy-in something and uses this to sue Batman and try to make him relinquish his mask. He kidnaps Robin makes a mold of his face, and has an accomplice impersonate Robin with the mask made for the mold to try and find the Batcave. He then tries to pull off a bold and daring jewel theft and vanishes in an explosion when Batman intervenes. He seems to be dead but shows up again later.
There are multiple episodes were his plans involve bomb scares that threaten a lot of people (and at least one YMMV tropes considers considers that a Moral Event Horizon) but its important to note that he is willing to disarm the bombs (or give others instruction on how to) if he does get paid the ransom's he's after. One of his schemes involves kidnapping a guy to use as bait then releasing him like its nothing important when this is really so Riddler can later rob a party the an will be hosting.
His final season 1 appearance has him committing a bunch of chimers modeled after silent films. It turns out this is because a silent film aficionado paid him to make a silent film of himself fighting Batman and Robin, but while collecting his payment, Riddler also tries to stela his client's collection of rare silent films.
In The Movie that's between seasons, he and several others kidnap a bunch of world leaders to hold for ransom.
In season 2 (were a different actor temporarily plays him), he brazenly invades a charity dinner celebrating Batman and Robin's anniversary as crimefighters and raising money to donate to starving children, he then steals the money by having a fake fire set and then invading it disguised as fighters before gloating and escaping out the window. Next, they flood and rob a bank vault and get into a scuba-tank wearing fistfight. He's doing this to raise the money to buy a bomb invention for one of the above-mentioned bomb threats and he actually pays the scientist rather than betraying him while they have a brief Commonality Connection moment about being high school dropouts.
In his one season 3 appearance, he kidnaps boxers and uses a woman with a hypnotic voice to make them lose fights.
Magnificent
He leaves riddles abotu the crimes he's login to pull in an effort to prove how smart he is, but it seems to be a psychological compulsion, not all of his riddles are solved in time, and he usually plans for Batman to solve the riddles and plans accordingly (leading him into a trap). He has an ego that makes him determined ot prove that he's greater than his rivals in the underworld. His plans are usually well ahead of the heroes and with a tricky agenda that they don't see coming.
He gets beaten, but I don't think he's really a Sore Loser about it.
Bastard
Like most villains, he tries to put the heroes through some nasty death traps and at one point Batman twists his arm and gives him a very scary speech showing how far this has driven him.
The stealing charity money is quite low and nasty, although other people who've stolen from charitable causes have been approved.
He can be a Mean Boss to hsi goons on occasion, although in other episodes they get along alright.
Edited by Melinda on Jan 8th 2022 at 2:48:02 AM
Yes to Gotia and the Batman ones.
Damon Gant I did myself, so I'm a firm keeper there.
Goku Black
Goetia
I think we're fine keeping Damon Gant, Calisto Yew, Aura Blackquill, or Pierce Nichody as is. (The former two also got eps from other peopleeeee)
We can ask Taylor and octoya if they mind rewriting Simon and shrien
But Katherine we definitely cut.
Edit : minerva, and definitely riddler. We probably wouldn't have the guy as prominent as he is now if if we're for frank gorshin performance.
For the bookworm. Isn't this a comedy show. I doubt thus played as that petty.
Edited by miraculous on Jan 8th 2022 at 2:50:28 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Yes to Goetia. Uncertain on the other Batman candidates but I can give a hell yeah to Gorshin's Riddler from memory.
Yes to the Riddler.
Goku Black
Yeah without Gorshin's madcap and intelligent portrayal we probably wouldn't have riddler or joker as sauve badasses they are now.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Yes to Minerva.