During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
- Why do a cleanup?: This trope definitely exists and has a well documented history of use. That being said, it frequently gets misused to a character who meets one of the components, namely that they are smart, charming while not necessarily even being a villain, or create good plans. While these are components, there is also a certain personality required, not to mention that all of the above are required to be present for a character to be a true Magnificent Bastard. As the trope attracts interest, it unfortunately brings in a lot of misuse and I thought the best way to rectify this would be a Perpetual Cleanup Thread, as is being done and has seen success with Complete Monster.
- What makes a Magnificent Bastard: Below is a list of the individual components to make this character. Note that they must all be present, not just some, which has lead to frequent misuse:
- Must be intelligent: Goes without saying, to be a Magnificent Bastard, the character has to be smart in the first place and use their brain to work towards whatever their end goal may be;
- Must be a Bastard: While going overboard in how vile the character is can be detrimental, a key aspect is the Bastard part of the trope, whether the character is an out-and-out antagonist in the work, some manner of Villain Protagonist, or something in between, they at least have some unscrupulous qualities to qualify for this trope;
- Must not be too detestable: Again, there is a ceiling on how bad the character can be before they just become too nefarious, blocking out the Magnificent part of the trope. A genocidal racist or child-raping Sadist aren't going to make the cut;
- Think on their feet: In addition to being a Chessmaster, a Magnificent Bastard, if the character deals with situations in which their initial plan is ruined, has to be able to pull a Xanatos Speed Chess and at least come up with a competent strategy to make up for lost time, otherwise they fail for being unable to think in tough spots;
- Have charm: Even if they don't necessarily make every character they meet fall in love with them and can even be detested by others, the audience has to find an amicable social relation to the character, or they are failing to make the impact required for this trope.
- What to do if a character is listed on a page but has not been approved?: They need to be removed, all candidates need to come through the cleanup thread first. The character could well count but they need to be analyzed properly and voted on first.
- Do we list Playing With this trope?: No; as a YMMV trope, this cannot be Played With, so we only want examples that are Played Straight.
- What do I do if I want a character to be listed as a Magnificent Bastard?: The greatest success Complete Monster saw for its cleanup effort was from the invention of the effort post format, so, borrowing from that, a troper wishing to propose a Magnificent Bastard will create such a post in the following format:
- Begin by describing The work, this will help establish the setting the character is in and for the reader to understand what kind of a scenario they are in;
- Summarize The character's actions, this will provide a listing for readers to understand what they do and how it applies to this trope because charm and lack of smugness are so crucial, this is a good time to be incorporating exactly the flavor of how they operate to explain this;
- List circumstances in which the character must Think on their feet, these are times where a wrench might be thrown in their initial plan and they have to adapt on the spot or even come up with a new scheme all together, this is also a good time to explain how the villain reacts to defeat when they have to face it, a true Magnificent Bastard won't break down into tears at the thought of death, they should have known such a possibility could occur and be able to handle it with more dignity;
- The competition, similar to the Heinous Standard dealt with for a Complete Monster, this section is to deal with how successful the character is in carrying out their plans compared to other characters. While, as a villain, they probably are going to lose in the end, it is good to explain how other characters handle the same situation. There is no exceptionalism case to be made for this trope but explaining the variety helps the reader have a better understanding of the proposal.
- How do you know when the character's arc is done so they can be proposed? When their tenure as a villain or antagonist finishes. This could happen in a single Story Arc in an entire work, a single work of a franchise, or the whole series in general. We'll show lenience to Long-Runners with constantly recurring candidates or series with outstanding continuities (ex. comic books), and it's entirely possible to count in a work or two but not in general for a reason like Depending on the Writer.
- What about candidates evil because of external sources? Those Made of Evil can qualify if they show enough individuality and tactical acumen — in other words, they have the personality to fulfill the magnificence requirement. Conversely, those brainwashed, especially if they're a better person without it, may fail the individuality aspect and cannot count.
- What if they are under orders from a higher-up? Depends. If the boss created the plans down to the letter and the candidate is just following them, sounds like we should discuss the boss instead. However, if the candidate takes creative liberties with the orders, adds their own charm and flair to them, fills in holes in the orders, and/or actively deals with obstacles their boss did not talk about, the candidate shows enough individual thinking to qualify.
- What about Character Development? An MB is something a character can develop into... a nice person who plots well might become more morally gray as the work goes on and hits the "Bastard" criteria, thus making them viable. Likewise, a Smug Snake might shed their ego, become more understanding of the threat others pose and gain the personality or "Magnificent" criteria, likewise making them viable. Conversely, a character who looks like this trope might suffer from a Sanity Slippage or just get outed as not being as smart as they thought they were and become incompatible with MB.
- Can an MB be a good guy? Not in the conventional sense... it is required they have at least some dubious traits lest they fail the "Bastard" criteria. That being said, a character who pulls a Heel–Face Turn or eventually stops taking villainous actions is still fair game: as there was a point in time where they were both "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and they've merely adapted as time goes on. Now... if such a character begins showing other issues (i.e.: becomes prone to freak outs or starts getting outwitted) then they're compromising their Magnificence and will probably be deemed a cut. What's important is stylishly operating while at least for some time being willing to take at best underhanded methods to see a job done. A Heel–Face Turn in itself isn't a disqualifier but they do have to have been "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and afterwards can't start slipping on the former front.
- What about characters whose stories can take different routes?: When proposing a character in a form of media that has them in multiple story routes. Said character must be consistent with their characteristics in all routes. (ex.: Can't have an example who shows promise on one route yet fails in another.) The only exception is if a later installment of the series confirms the character's actions which made them worth proposing are the canon route.
- Is there a timeframe rule like with Complete Monster?: Yes, please wait two weeks until after the work has concluded before proposing a character (again, usually using the North American air date). As is the case with CM, we want to give a reasonable time frame so that everyone interested in seeing the work has done so and can participate in the discussion without having anything spoiled.
- What about groups like with Complete Monster?: This is a point of divergence between the two tropes. While CM does not allow for a single entry encompassing more than three characters lest their heinousness for crimes becomes too watered down, with MB as long as they are treated as one "unit" it is acceptable to lump all characters provided they share acts of charm and intelligence.
- Can I propose my own work's character as a Magnificent Bastard?: No, this is a YMMV subject and the creator of a content is way too biased to be able to evaluate the criteria we're looking for without a second opinion taking over. That being said, you are more than welcome to encourage someone to consume your creation and if they feel a character counts, are more than welcome to suggest them.
- My example/edit has been approved, but the example subpage is locked! How do I get it added?: The moderators do not add examples to locked example subpages in the MagnificentBastard/ namespace directly. Rather, you need to do the edit to a sandbox page that follows the format Sandbox.MagnificentBastard<Name of the example subpage> (e.g for MagnificentBastard.Fullmetal Alchemist it's Sandbox.Magnificent Bastard Fullmetal Alchemist) and on a Friday, ask in the locked pages edit requests thread for the content to be swapped in.
Thread rules
When voting a troper must specify the effort post they're voting on and cannot merely vote on "Everything I missed" as in the past it has indicated the poster didn't read the effort post and is guessing instead of analyzing.
Resolved items
In general, a character listed on this trope is considered "settled". This means they should not be challenged unless information used to list them was incorrect or information was missed in the initial discussion.
However, when re-litigating a candidate, the same rules apply for when they were originally proposed. If they do not have five or more upvotes than downvotes for approval upon a re-litigation, including votes from the initial discussion if they do not change, then they are a cut.
This especially applies to the characters listed below, who have been discussed excessively and repeated attempts to get them listed/cut may result in punitive action for bogging down the thread.
Definitely an MB
- Pokémon Mystery Dungeon: Explorers: Any sadism Darkrai displays is limited in effect thanks to the game's nature and any cowardice which can be inferred about him is Alternative Character Interpretation about his tactical retreats.
- Avatar: The Last Airbender: Azula's Villainous Breakdown is undone in the sequel comic Smoke & Shadow where she regains her composure and ends up stable and in control enough to count.
Definitely not an MB
- South Park: The show's frequent use of vulgar comedy and mean-spirited humor leaves any potential candidates devoid of the dignity or charm to qualify.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:15:22 AM
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
I mean, even if it's retconned to Alternate Continuity, it's still the same franchise. I think they can stay there.
Goku Black
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Nasch/Shark and Astral.
And so now every series has an mb. The cycle is complete.
Edited by miraculous on Aug 3rd 2021 at 2:14:38 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Fun-fact: When originally reading the fanfic, I thought the Big Bad would be a Complete Monster, and then I found why he became evil, which is the death of this guy.
What's the Work
Joy of Creation is a Five Nights at Freddy's fanfic so old it predates the second game. It's about Mike Schmidt spending his six nights at Freddy's and finding out his connections to the restaurant.
Who is Goldie Fazbear and what has he done?
Goldie Fazbear is, uh, kinda there??? I'm not sure how to call him.
Anyways, alongside the main show and Foxy's Pirate Cove, there was also the Amazing Goldie Show, where he was the star, making magic tricks and all that jazz. In 1986, however, he was scrapped and decommissioned because the people behind Freddy's wanted to entertain kids with songs. Enraged by this, in 1987, Freddy would make a master plan; He made a night guard called Kyle Winston follow his orders by putting on the Goldie suit and luring five kids backstage, while Foxy would distract everyone by pulling off The Bite of '87.
Freddy would then slaughter four of the five kids to make Goldie have some friends, as his consciousness lived on, and as he tried to kill Mike, Goldie saved him because the boy called the robot his best friend after his final show. I don't know how, but it involed the golden pocket-watch Mike had.
Anyways, years later in 2014, Mike becomes the new guard at Freddy's. To protect him and teach him how to survive, Goldie would become the Phone Guy that teached Mike the basics at Freddy's. On his third night, he would appear in front of Mike, scaring the shit outta him. Goldie wouldn't return until the second half of the sixth night, where he would appear in front of Mike after he destroyed Freddy.
Goldie would thank Mike for killing his friends, as death would save them from the much, much worse fate that was being left in the rotting Freddy's that was supposed to close down at the end of the year. Saying that Mike is too special to die, Goldie explains that the man will help with reconstructing the Freddy's animatronics in newer forms. Goldie comforts Mike, saying that he will be happy again, and then disappears.
The epilogue shows that Mike did indeed help with reconstructing the animatronics, showing his boss Toy Bonnie.
Is Goldie Fazbear magnificent?
Yup. For decades, he played one long trick just so Mike could rebuild Freddy and Co. and bring "the Joy of Creation", saving him from the animatronics more than once. He also convinced Mike to rebuild the robots just because he said he will.
Is Goldie Fazbear a bastard?
Not much, but still enough to qualify. He utterly terrified Mike on Night 3 and his explanations of how Freddy's works as the Phone Guy scared him, too. He also allowed his robotic friends, technically family, die to achieve this goal, even if it's implied they are now the same types of ghosts Goldie is. He technically means well, but in a very Good Is Not Nice or borderline Anti-Hero / Anti-Villain way to the point that even Word of God says Mike is crazy when talking about the epilogue.
Final Verdict
Leaning towards a
Sure to Goldie.
And now...the moment we've been waiting for. I give you one of the unquestioned leads of Legend of Galactic Heroes: Reinhard von Lohengramm.
Who is Reinhard?
Born Reinhard von Musel, the son of a minor noble family, Reinhard grew with his father and elder sister Annerose in a largely happy childhood...along with a commoner boy named Siegfried Kircheis, whom Reinhard grew to love as his 'other half.' Everything was fine until the day that Annerose's legendary beauty reached the imperial court and she was taken awya to become the concubine of the Kaiser. Reinhard made a vow that day: to destroy the corrupt Goldenbaum Dynasty.
In the class-based society of the Empire, Reinhard entered the military and graduated top of his class. Reinhard distinguished himself even on small, out of the way assignments, and fending off assassination attempts from his own side...I'm skipping out on a number of the movie stuff here, detailing his rise, but Reinhard shows incredible tactical ability and navigates the deadly courts of the Empire while forming a loyal team of admirals. Reinhard wins just about every battle he participates in while outwitting a number of deadly nobles, becoming known as "The Blond Brat" derisively to them, and also meets for the first time his greatest rival: Yang "Magician" Wen-Li. Reinhard would admire him for the rest of their lives.
When his career opens, Reinhard is the youngest full admiral, and has been given his own ship, the Brunhild. When the series opens, reinhard shows his aptitude by using his weapons not on the Alliance fleet, but the nearby gas giant to create a storm to disrupt them and give him the victory...however, the nobles simply take credit from Reinhard...Reinhard later faces Yang again and even orders his ships to fire and disregard damage to himself, which they refuse to do, even to get to Yang, resulting in a stalemate and Reinhard's eventual promotion to High Admiral and the title Count von Lohengramm....Reinhard selects a group of admirals based on competence...but also for their loyalty to him. Reinhard makes sure to secure their loyalty.
In the clashes with the empire, Reinhard scores victory after victory...with the advance of the Alliance, Reinhard adopts a scorched earth strategy, destroying supplies to cut off the Alliance's supplies and leaving them with starving and discontent citizens..before launching his counterattack, wiping out most of the occupation forces, but Yang's genius makes it impossible to destroy them totally.
When the Kaiser dies, Reinhard decides to launch his rebellion, undeermining and usurping the Goldenbaums. In the novel, Reinhard chooses to allow Prince Otho von Braunschweig to nuke the rebelling colony of Westerland, in the anime he is kept in the dark of it, but either way, Reinhard wins and sweeps away the Goldenbaums,...only for Kircheis to be assassinated and Annerose, liberated, to not wish to see him for a time. As Prime Minister, Reinhard institutes sweeping reforms...Reinhard also pierces the schemes of Adrian Rubinsky in a massive complex plot to form a government in exile of the Empire with the complicity of the Alliance's top figure...war is declared...and Reinhard initiates Operation Ragnarok, using himself as bait to draw Yang out while striking strategic points in the Alliance...the Alliance falls and Reinhard formally claims the title of Kaiser. After hooking up with his aide Hildegarde von Mariendorf, a flustered Reinhard proposes to her nd takes her as his wife...sadly, the rebellion of his friend and admiral Oskar von Reuenthal hits hard and Reuenthal is killed fighting his old friend W Olfgang von Mittermeyer.
Reinhard's health begins to worsen, even with the news Hildegarde is pregnant with their son....still commanding the field, Reinhard's abilities are impeded by his failing health, resulting in his final talk and negotiation with the young leader of the future Galactic republic, Yang's protege, Julian.
Dying, Reinhard makes plans for the future of the galaxy, telling Hildegarde to serve as regent and Kaiserin...Reinhard leaves everything to the successors, even after leaving plans to benefit his people and the galaxy. Summoning Wolfgang Mittermeyer who has adopted Oskar von Reuenthal's illegitimate son Felix, he offers his own son Alexander Siegfried von Lohengramm to be little Felix's companion in hopes it will help them grow, just like Reinhard and Siegfried.
Surrounded by his family, his friends, Reinhard passes away at the age of 25.
How's he operate?
The main character of the series. Reinhard is...well. Reinhard is a genius. As a military man he's one of the best of the series. I had to truncate what he's done a lot. Reinhard is brilliant Admiral who almost always has a scheme and plot going on. Using himself as bait? Cutting supply lines to sow discontent? Pulling off a massive rebellion? Reinhard is educated, dignified, charismatic, has maybe the greatest hair of any lead in anime, is soulful, tragic and rarely succumbs to any despair or shock. Even when things don't go his way, he's quick to bounce. Always. The only times Reinhard is taken aback entirely? When he's confronted by a man whose family died at Westerland and blames him (not unjustifiably)...and when he has sex with Hilde, Reinhard is flustered and has no idea how to act about it...but, y'know, it's portrayed as kind of adorable, and he doesn't want to be one of the debauched Goldenbaums.
But seriously, Reinhard makes it for all of this. Now, part of his brilliance is his ability to choose good people. Paul von Oberstein is selected to make the dark choices. But his other admirals are brilliant to a one. He hits every point here, there's no doubt.
How bad is he?
Is Reinhard a good man? Yes. Does he want to overthrow a corrupt and despotic regime? Yes. Does he truly love his family and friends? Yes. Does he respect his enemies? Yes. Is he willing to kill lots of people to do it? Oh yes. Does he heed Oberstein's ruthless advice in cutting off supplies to his own people to screw over an occupation? Yep. In the novels, he allows the nuke attack on Westerland to give himself support (he feels guilty for the rest of his life)...but when a man who had family who died there attacks him as an assassin, Reinhard reluctantly still has the man executed on Oberstein's advice....
Reinhard is willing to destroy tons of ships, use decoys and when he defeats Admiral Bucock, the Cool Old Guy of the alliance, upon realizing Bucock won't surrender, he has his ship annihilated albeit reluctantly as Bucock and his crew simply celebrate their impending deaths with good drinks. Now, Reinhard loves those close to him. Siegfried is his best friend. He loves Annerose. He honors the loyalty of everyone close to him and rewards them. He makes sweeping changes to help people....
And even Yang? Reinhard respects him and isn't happy when he dies. One of the finest scenes in the show is the two of them sitting together and sharing a friendly chat, of Yang's ideals of democracy versus Reinhard's of enlightened dictatorship and thy leave unable to reconcile them but still admiring the other. Reinhard is a man of war who also knows how to win the peace.
Conclusion?
An utterly easy keeper.
Now allow me to propose s quoeveral tes, all by Reinhard:
"For those who have come to power, wealth and glory not by their own strength and effort, but simply through inheritance, what right do they have to complain? The very existence of such blood-lineage dynasties is disgusting. Power is the property of one generation. It shouldn't be transferred, it should be seized."
"I aim to be the supreme ruler... and to reach that goal, I have a policy of my own. It is to fight my own battles. That's the difference between myself and the noblemen I've fought and defeated. That's also the reason why the soldiers follow me."
"I cannot lose to anyone. People admire and stay loyal to me because I'm undefeated. I'm not supported because of my bloodline."
to Cobra Commander, Wrip, Woe, Amadeus, Jared Garrity, Mr Welburn, Simon Hardwick, Yaotl, Hanao Hiseki, Captain Bruno Fabi, Mihawk, Jemma Angel, Aramaki, Kuze, Gabriel and Hilary, Father Martin Archimbaud, Dominique, Garland, Drucker, Eliphas, Hideo Kuze, Jackie, the Erlking, Ozpin, Nasch, Astral, Goldie and Reinhard.
to Astral, Goldie and Reinhard.
Showtime!
to Goldie, Reinhardt, and the quotes
Goku Black
Reinhard
Ultimate Moral Compass
Goldie and Reinhard
A mystery is concealed within this EP!
When hurtling into mystery, mysteries call up more mystery.
What is a mystery without mystery when mystery proceeds?
Hurtle on toward the ideal of solving all mystery!
Open! Catherine!
Let’s propose another Flower, Sun, and Rain candidate!
Who is He?
Sundance Shot is a terrorist, the leader of the FSO faction, and a clone of Sumio Mondo who harbors a silver eye of his own underneath his eyepatch.
What does he do?
Guidebook Control!
As a product of the Eleven Children cloning experiments from long ago, Sundance needs Mondo for his own goals and desires. When he finds out that Edo is doing what he can to destroy Lospass Island with his bombs, Sundance continuously places the bombs inside airplanes taking off, destroying one per day and negating Edo’s plan. This makes Edo call in Mondo to help him stop Sundance, which plays into the terrorist’s endgame.
Killing Mondo at one point by getting the hotel’s maid, Sue, to lure him up to the hotel’s roof, Sundance makes a deal with Toriko Kusabi to resurrect the searcher on condition that Mondo will have to find him, or else he’ll “disappear”. Sundance meets with Mondo in his hotel room a few days later, where he persuades the searcher to find him, dropping hints that he can be found in some toilet stalls (it makes sense in context). Because the endgame is in the airport, Sundance offers to help Mondo get there by giving him a special dice that leads to a whole lot of shit happening which eventually unlocks the gate to the airport. Sundance also persuades Mondo into learning about his true past, as it’s the only way he can properly escape the island.
Once Mondo finally arrives at the airport, Sundance poses as a fake Mondo and waits for the real Mondo to arrive, making him use Catherine to solve a puzzle in order to realize what’s going on. Afterwards, Sundance reveals himself, telling Mondo that he has played his part as the true, final Sumio Mondo.
For you see, Sundance is not just one clone of Mondo, but one of 16 clones of Mondo, all of whom were found in the toilet stalls of the airport (Rule of Cool and all). For the 16 days Mondo spent on the island, each day was a different clone; Sundance blew up the airplanes until he got to the actual, original version of Mondo. Because each clone shares these memories, Sundance wanted the original Mondo to carry on the special genes, knowledge, and memories of the past few weeks to the next generation, who Sundance has successfully weeded out thanks to his crafty manipulation tactics. Despite knowing that the island’s going to blow up thanks to Edo, Sundance chooses to stay on the island alongside the Mondo clones, as they were natives of the island and feel they deserve to go down with it.
But that’s actually not the last we see of him. Cause as for other appearances? Well, not many.
Sundance is technically in The Silver Case, but he’s only in the game’s manual and appears in the opening intro for a second, so he doesn't really do anything there. He has a cameo in Travis Strikes Again: No More Heroes as a fortune teller who guides Travis to Dracula’s castle, but it’s nothing noteworthy. And he was going to be in Killer7 as a time traveler, but he was cut from the final product, though his cutscenes can still be found on the disc and his model was reused for a different character.
Is he charming? Intelligent? Able to think on his feet?
Jack Control!
Sundance, despite his occupation as a corrupt faction leader and terrorist, is a charismatic figure who’s able to trick Mondo into recognizing who he really is by making him go through special hoops and hurdles. He plays fair with Mondo, is a master manipulator, and is able to keep up with Edo on dozens of occasions.
While Edo accomplishes his goals of blowing up the island, Sundance is able to accomplish his goals simultaneously, as all he ever wanted was the original Mondo’s survival.
Is he a bastard? Too much of one?
Dial Control!
Like I said earlier, Sundance is a corrupt faction leader and terrorist who blows up several planes full of people just to stall the island’s own destruction for the sake of accomplishing his plans.
Thing is, he’s not particularly heinous. He doesn’t exude the same level of evil that, say, Curtis Blackburn or Shigino reek of. Sundance can be fairly polite and helpful at points, even if it’s for his own self-serving goals, and he seems to genuinely care about helping Mondo find out about his past, even if he did kill him at one point. His stint as FSO leader is also primarily offscreen, as we only know about his involvement in the corrupt Shelter Kids policy through dialogue, and nothing else.
The competition?
While Edo’s the one pulling the strings, Sundance is no slouch either. He’s a guy who’s not afraid to get physical, but also not afraid to use mind games. He’s definitely one of the most morally ambiguous characters in the game alongside Edo, but his plans stand out as particularly unique.
He also stands out from the other Mondo clones with his own unique design and goals; he's basically a separate character.
Final Answer?
Yes, I think he also keeps.
Edited by therealjackieboy on Aug 3rd 2021 at 8:07:09 AM
"No running in the halls!"
Astral, Goldie, Reinhard, and Sundance.
Edited by SatoshiBakura on Aug 3rd 2021 at 11:32:05 AM
Goku Black
Sundance
to Sundance
Goku Black
I like the second Reinhard quote.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Ultimate Moral Compass
Second Reinhard quote
to Astral, Goldie, Reinhard and Sundance
The Unknown Unknown
Astral, Goldie, Reinhard, and Sundance.
@Snowy: I'd like a Yami Yugi EP based on the Season 0 myself. In fact, I was thinking about when I made that updated description. He definitely ain't the good pharaoh we know there.
A cruel, sick joke is still a joke, and sometimes all you can do is laugh.
Astral, Goldie, Reinhard, & Sundance
I'll vote on the rest later but in the middle of work I'll just go to the one I know first hand and give an unquestionable yes to Reinhard!
If you want, I could do an EP on manga!Dark Yugi eventually.
Goku Black
Was about to ask why he wouldn't count. I know Yubel and Astral who are listed take a lot from him.
I know why his second anime version wouldn't count as he's honestly a decent guy with the expectation of using Orichalcos once but that was clearly a moment of weakness.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Gotta love Jaws!
to Astral, Goldie, Reinhard and Sundance.
Goldie, Reinhard and Sundance
Would you say Manga!Dark Yugi and Anime Season 0 Yami Yugi are different enough for separate EP?
A lot of events seem to untold differently iirc, with the anime version arguably being worse from what I remember. Such as Manga Yugi making Ushio go mad by thinking the leaves were money, while Anime he borderline Mind Rape him with a hallucination he got eaten by river worms.
He easily passes the bastard req, that Yami Yugi was a relentless Knight Templar and whenever he came out someone was either gonna get tortured, lose their sanity, or die. God that series was so dark and awesome.
Edited by Snowy66 on Aug 3rd 2021 at 10:18:36 AM
Lies and Violence!
Sundance.
The Gotham City Society of Fireproof Women — I don't get the name either, nothing about fire or proofing thereof is ever really relevant, besides Firefly blowing himself up — is a decent 10-part fanfic I stumbled across, centered primarily around the Batfamily.
Before the start of the story Harley Quinn killed the Joker and Batman hung up the cowl. Three years later, after the trio of Talia al Ghul, Black Manta and "The Undying" (former Gotham mayor Hamilton Hill, go with it) tried to kill everyone in Gotham, Bruce decided to finally go to therapy and take up the mask once more.
After that debacle, he gained a bunch of new partners in addition to Nightwing and Oracle: former supervillain and current wife Selina Kyle / Catwoman; Tim Drake / Robin III; Stephanie Brown / Spoiler; and Cassandra Cain / Orphan.
The candidate
Cassandra Cain is the daughter of notorious assassins David Cain and Lady Shiva, trained/tortured since birth to be "The One-Who-Is-All"; Ra's al Ghul's bodyguard, a perfect killing machine able to read someone's body language and demolish anyone she gets into a fight with. Due to such a warm upbringing, she wasn't taught to read, write, or even speak.
After being forced to kill someone for the first time, however, she finally ran away from her father (we'll call him Cain and her Cass for simplicity's sake). Eight years later she ends up in Gotham, home of the returned Batman, hoping to find redemption with him.
Going by Orphan, Bruce first runs into her when she beats up about twenty gangsters, even dodging a bullet after it's left the gun chamber, before genuflecting when she sees Batman like she was in a church. This obviously warrants his attention, so he brings her to the Batcave and has Barbara look after her. She further impresses Barbara when she annihilates a supervillain and her crew, deliberately taking a bullet in a non-vital area in order to get in closer, but stops Barbara when it looks like she's going to kill the villain (she's not, but it gets the point across about how much she takes the whole "no killing" thing). Bruce figures out her relation to Cain and her name, Cassandra, before officially taking her in.
So. This is where things get weird. Basically, two Greek Goddesses decide to destroy the multiverse. They're not relevant, but who is relevant are their three Co-Dragons: David Cain, and... okay, it's more complicated then this, but basically a resurrected Jason Todd and a universe-displaced Damien Wayne.
After realizing Cain's in town Cass goes to confront him and, thanks to weird stuff that obscures others' vision of him, he's able to pretty easily beat her. Bruce gives her an EMP to deal with Cain's cheating, and she destroys him in the rematch. Unfortunately, Mr. Mxyzptlk (he's also here, just go with it) teleports her away before she can arrest him.
Mxy explains the Goddesses' plans for the multiverse, which gives everyone a sudden case of existential dread and nihilism — except for Cass, who gains a bit of perspective. There's probably a cowboy Cass out there in the multiverse. The universe is chaos, nothing makes sense, and she's beholden to nothing. Especially some dumb climactic fight with Cain.
Cass finds that Stephanie's already left to confront Damien, while Tim is preparing to go looking for Jason. No. That's stupid. Splitting up to individually confront your nemeses is exactly what they're prepared for. Cass sends Tim (and all of Young Justice) to beat the shit out of Cain, while she successfully convinces a remorseful Jason to stand down and not blow himself up.
Oh, and Swamp-Thing takes care of the Goddesses. Bruce and Barbara give Cass the Batgirl suit, saying she earned it after all the bullshit she led the other through while Bruce was incapacitated.
14-year time skip! (There was more, but nothing relevant)
Supervillains in Gotham are kind of completely phased out, leaving only the Penguin and a few mobsters. Bruce has retired and passed the mantle of the Dark Knight to Cass, who's taken up the name Black Bat (Nightwing wasn't asked — everyone knows he would have refused, but it's a matter of pride and he's a bit salty). The only other major vigilantes operating are "The Signal" and "Mother Panic."
Cass as Black Bat has returned Batman to his urban legend routes, a monster in the shadows that leaves armies of broken mobsters in "his" wake. In her public life, Cass has been adopted by Bruce to officially become Cassandra Wayne, having learned to read/write and become a famous theater actor.
Now, plot! Ra's al Ghul has teamed up with Astrid Arkham, the Arkham Knight, to get petty revenge and destroy Gotham for good. Oh, and also to get Cass to marry him and produce a better heir. Ra's, you make it really hard to like you sometimes.
The Knight starts by setting up missiles all across the city in order to shoot down Panic (she lives). Before she can do anything else, the Knight is contacted by an anonymous mole. Someone in the Batfamily, who gives her Dick Grayson's location. She beats him up and executes him in front of Bruce.
The mole contacts the Knight again, giving her the information to get into Wayne Manor and steal Bruce's emergency Kryptonite. Using it, the Knight manages to kill Conner Kent (currently operating as Superman due to Clark retiring).
Ra's reveals he found Bane's lost stockpile of Venom, planning to use it on Poison Ivy and force her make the citizens of Gotham tear each other apart. Cass, breaking under the pressure, agrees to join Ra's as long as he doesn't harm her family. She kidnaps his "false heir" (Talia and Manta's kid, Aaliyah). Ra's begins his plan...
And Cass starts laughing in the Demon's face.
- The Signal has the power to see not only light, but also radio waves. So, when he noticed the supposedly-abandoned Arkham Asylum was now bustling with activity a week ago, he and Cass kind of immediately realized something was going on.
- Cass was the "traitor." She figured due to the Panic thing that the Knight was too impulsive for a plan, so she fed her information and tricked her into following Cass' plan. She kept her identity hidden so the Knight wouldn't kill any of the Batfam, not knowing who among them was actually her mole.
- That Kryptonite? Fake. Conner's still alive, and attacking the League's forces right now.
- That Venom? Also fake. Cass found it by accident years ago and destroyed it, but figured some idiots were probably still looking for it and left a bunch of canisters of lemon-lime Kool-Aid in its place.
- Dick Grayson? Yes, the Knight killed him. Cass had his body stolen from the morgue, then resurrected him with the local Lazarus Pit (which she also found by accident a few years earlier, mapping Gotham's underground). When Ra's goes to heal himself, he finds Nightwing waiting to kick him in the face.
At the end of the day: the Knight's been arrested (and if she isn't stable enough to stand trial/get the death penalty is looking to be Cass' Joker); Ra's is in an ARGUS blacksite while the Amazons raid Nanda Parbat, dismantling the League of Assassins for good; and thanks to Cass' planning no one died throughout the entire encounter.
Cass officially takes up the mantle of Batman (not Batwoman, since technically she'd need Kate's approval for that), and this time no one has any objections. Including Nightwing, who takes the whole "being murdered" thing surprisingly well.
Is she magnificent?
Pretty effortlessly tricks Ra's and sabotages his plan before it even gets off the ground, simultaneously using the opportunity to eliminate any doubts about her worthiness as Batman's successor.
Is she a bastard?
She resurrects him after, but part of her plan still involves getting Dick killed. And she only tells him about the plan after he's brought back. Like, God damn!
Plus, she only tells three or four other people about the plan, so everyone — even Bruce — believes he and Conner are actually dead, and are in mourning for a good chunk of the story. A lot of heroes are still pretty pissed at her a year later.
She almost religiously clings to the "no killing" rule, but I otherwise think this scheme just barely edges her out in ruthlessness.
Thoughts?
