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Edited by GastonRabbit on Apr 24th 2024 at 1:49:19 PM
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
Wasn't merging Cliché Storm with Troperiffic previously suggested?
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 5th 2021 at 12:55:59 PM
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
It might've been. I think someone did suggest that.
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
True, true. I'm not sure what else we could do to fix it though. My only other idea is to move it to Darth or Flame Bait, but that seems excessive.
This is why I wasn't sure if I wanted to whip up a TRS OP for it. I'm not sure what a viable solution is and TRS isn't always good at dealing with bashing, which is a culture issue more often than not.
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
Tyrannoraptoran Reptiliomorph
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
A lot of the issue with bashing on this site has to do with tropers themselves and how they use tropes / treat certain works, rather than the actual tropes they're using. For example, we can spend hours rewriting the description of Cliché Storm to minimize bashing, but since people don't read trope descriptions it won't change anything, and nor will most other fixes short of a completely radical change that changes the way tropers are forced to interact with it.
TL;DR: Some issues are about troper culture and mindset, and not about the tropes themselves.
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
I've noticed that anonymous crowner votes (i.e., votes by people who didn't post in the thread) often oppose attempts to reduce bashing, based on the outcomes of the crowners for Fandom Heresy, Bile Fascination, and Acceptable Targets, so I'd imagine a proposal to move Cliché Storm to Darth or Flame Bait would fail in the same way.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 5th 2021 at 2:31:07 PM
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
Professor Gigachad
Could be that people are trying to prevent their sources of complaining from being taken away, though I did downvote most of the options on Bile Fascination for a diffrent reason.
Edited by Ordeaux26 on Aug 5th 2021 at 12:35:34 PM
CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes
Now a lurker. Thanks for everything. | he/him
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Well that isn't good. That sounds like an issue that needs a bigger solution than "Don't try to get rid of complaining tropes".
Can the mods see who votes on crowners? Maybe we need a rule that you cannot vote on a crowner unless you make a post saying what you voted and why. An extreme solution, but if tropers are deliberately raiding the crowners of complaining tropes just so that they can keep places to complain around, it may be necessary.
Edited by themayorofsimpleton on Aug 5th 2021 at 3:40:49 PM
TRS Queue | Works That Require Cleanup of Complaining | Troper Wall
Lots of coffee
To be fair, efforts to remove complaining sometimes spiral into extreme scorched-earth proposed solutions when we could easily document these reactions objectively. Like when Franchise Original Sin first went to TRS, people assumed the negativity made it unsalvageable and wanted to cut it, when an easy solution emerged by simply removing the one part of the trope that encouraged excess complaining.
Edited by mightymewtron on Aug 5th 2021 at 3:57:57 PM
I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
Professional Wick Checker
Can Cliché Storm become a Flame Bait trope? I was honestly surprised to see such a controversial trope not be marked as flamebait when I first joined the wiki.
No we can't. Also, I think the actual problem is that there is no red line between "appropriate opinion" and "bitching", a problem I've already raised with numerous wick checks. It also means that what you might consider the "bitching" others may consider "appropriate opinion".
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Susjection!
Tropes only become Flame Bait if they cause massive edit/flame wars by their mere presence (at least that's how they're supposed to become flamebait). Mary Sue is an example of a trope that rightfully became Flame Bait because it caused a massive edit war on YMMV.The Force Awakens.
Edited by Kevjro7 on Aug 5th 2021 at 1:03:06 AM
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
Tbf, on this particular wick check I was only checking tone. People do tend to conflate complaining with misuse, but those are entirely separate issues. A valid example can be bashy, a misused example can be positive. So I've never gone into one of these checks with the premise that I'm looking for misuse if I know the problem is tone.
So the "appropriate opinion" issue isn't the issue here.
Edited by WarJay77 on Aug 5th 2021 at 4:19:14 AM
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
Now a lurker. Thanks for everything. | he/him
Well, how would you propose dealing with tropes that attract nothing but complaining? There has to be something we can do, right? Even just a cleanup thread?
(I don't mean to come off as rude by the way, I just was interested to know what your solution would be Septimus.)
Edited by themayorofsimpleton on Aug 5th 2021 at 6:27:38 AM
TRS Queue | Works That Require Cleanup of Complaining | Troper Wall
Showtime!
Would making cliche storm in-universe examples only be a potential solution?
Absolute destiny... apeachalypse?
Lots of coffee
I think Cliché Storm's problems are being overblown slightly. My concern is more "distinct from Troperrific" than "used to complain." It is possible to simply list common archetypes that audiences see in a film and not fill it with overly snarky language.
I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
Now a lurker. Thanks for everything. | he/him
Maybe we need a cleanup thread then.
Or we can just bring up the examples in the complaining thread and clean them all up in chunks there.
TRS Queue | Works That Require Cleanup of Complaining | Troper Wall
Professional Wick Checker
Jay's focus is on tone but now that I quickly went through the page's examples it has many issues like it attracts gushing/people justifying how X media makes it work, general examples, examples that lack context on how exactly a work is riddled with clichés, and intentional In-Universe examples, etc. It needs a cleanup and a division between intentional and non-intentional examples.
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
I'd be game for a cleanup thread.
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
Now a lurker. Thanks for everything. | he/him
I'll stick it in Short-Term. Sound like a plan?
Lots of coffee
Go for Long-Term. This feels indefinite, and a cleanup thread will probably do the most good.
I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
Now a lurker. Thanks for everything. | he/him
Will do.
EDIT: Thread created.
Edited by themayorofsimpleton on Aug 5th 2021 at 8:25:42 AM
TRS Queue | Works That Require Cleanup of Complaining | Troper Wall
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
Slot about to open. Should we re-open the Hate Sink thread?
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
Hmm... maybe it could be sent back to TLP.
I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.