TLP Crash Rescue - Fixing prematurely launched TLPs and pages

@Theatre_Maven_3695: The Dracula: the Musical page seems to be about an obscure Swedish Direct to Video adaptation from 2010. There is an unrelated stage musical of the same exact name, so the Theatre/ namespace is doubly inappropriate.

I cutlisted Buzzsaw Projectile as it was created an launched by a known ban evader

Can people comment more on tropes that others have posted? It's really frustrating to see no action taken because most posts are just people reporting stubs. I mean, reporting stubs is great and important. Necessary, even. But we need more people commenting on other peoples' posts. Without people commenting on these we can't move forward with doing anything. This is especially true with poorly-launched tropes because I am loathe to undo someone's (sometimes) hard work without a clear consensus. At this point I'm about ready to just drop the thread altogether because of it.

I just went back a few pages and found tropes that have slipped through the cracks:

• Bust Chart: Discussion sort of stalled. I think it can be a trope when it's thrown in a manga as an extra feature or something (like design sketches or what have you) but I'm not married to it.
• Cast from Stamina: I asked for it to be cut and sent back to TLP, but no word from mods one way or the other.
• Literal Self Made Man: Ditto.
• Flirtatious Smack on the Ass: 3 people said send it back, one opposed. Personally, I think it's too broad. The difference between an old married couple's "They've still got it" ass slap is nothing like a lecher slapping a secretary's ass out the door. Calling it the same trope is just misleading.
• Actually Real Magic: Launched without addressing the name issue. Two people said send it back, no one opposed.
• Deus Ex Savant: The Same but more specific. Septimus said the snowclone's a problem, Lakingsif says the trope is a problem, I say cut it.
• Casual Sports Jersey: Not A Trope. Or rather, waaaaaaaaaay too broad. I'd like to send it back and have it divided into actual tropes. Being "casual" isn't the same as being such a huge fanatic that your identity is tied into your favorite team, or being so in the past you're wearing a sports version of Still Wearing the Old Colors trying to relive past glory.
• Misplaced Bubbles: No point to it. Cut.
• Mystery Arc: Calling that half-assed is a compliment. This is like, 1/16th assed. Cut it.
• Most Definitely Not Accompanying Us: If we don't have a better version of this trope, Index and keep. It's definitely a trope.
• Magical Guide: Too vague to really be a trope. It's "guide that happens to be magical," and a lot of examples are "guide... and since it's a magical setting, of course they're magical."
• Act Of True Love Stalemate: Atrocious name, and even the TLP basically said it's The Same, but More Specific of More Hero Than Thou (specifically, MHTT but,motivated by personal affection which.... Isn't a horribly huge distinction, in my opinion). Cut.
• Poverty Porn: Pretty much unanimously decided it's an awful name, plus a bunch of awful examples. Send it back.
• The Princess And The Pirate: Launched in 2015 with no YKTTW. It's basically Uptown Girl or All Girls Want Bad Boys (not even but more specific since it explicitly includes non-pirates so long as one person is high-class, the other not), poorly formatted, the examples are poorly written, and it has 5 wicks. Also, I'm 99% certain the entire page was made to ship a Once Upon a Time pairing. 733 inbounds, but that's probably because it shares a title with an actual work page. I say just cut it, or if the wicks are too high make it a redirect to the work page.
• Film Of The Ride: Two people said get rid of it. One cited M Issing Supertrope Syndrome. Personally I'm fine with it, but I'd like more discussion.
• Where They Were: Stub. Not sure what it's going for. Older, so I say just cut.
• Gentle Touch vs. Firm Hand: Looks okay to me. I do think the description can be cut down heavily... some conciseness will lead to clarity, but it works well enough.
• Creator's Pest: Not ideal, and I probably wouldn't have launched yet, but not bad enough to actually send back, in my opinion.

New one:

• Incident Of Way Back When: Noodle Incident But More Specific. Bordering on a Stock Phrase, really.

edited 3rd Feb '17 7:29:39 AM by Larkmarn

Allie Beckstrom has been around for years, but has essentially no description, just a list of the books in the series. Is this the right thread to address that, or is there a more appropriate place?

pennygadget created Analysis.Inspector Gadget and Timeline.Inspector Gadget which consist of a single grammatically and information poor sentence

Their only edits are spam IG related "pages". That plus their handle pretty much outs them as a troll. Bringing it up in ATT.

Good work on the cleanup of the page. I enjoyed the first few books before it dropped off my radar.

edited 4th Feb '17 5:02:30 PM by FuzzyBoots

Thanks. Any chance you could fill in some basic description? I could only pull stuff from the crosswicks, since I'm completely unfamiliar with the series—just stumbled across it from a link.

Okay, well here's my responses to the stuff that Larkman pointed out.

• Bust Chart: I brought this up. Still not convinced it's a trope, but I guess Love Chart gives a precedent.
• Cast from Stamina:
  • New: I'm not sure about Cast from Calories either.
    • Cast from Calories differentiates itself from Cast From HP by asking about whether the character would need to take a night's sleep or eat a meal, but both of those things could be done to get your energy back (that is, from exhaustion).
    • Neither Cast from Calories nor Cast from Stamina differentiates itself from the other. Maybe except on Cast from Stamina where it talks about Stamina as a Dump Stat? So Cast from Calories but for games?
    • I'd say cut both Cast from Stamina and Cast from Calories.
• Literal Self Made Man: Four examples. One of which isn't to a specific work but the question of "Who made god?" My vote's to send it back if only to collect more examples.
• Flirtatious Smack on the Ass: Lecherous Smack On The Ass should not be conflated with this. If it's just a flirtatious smack, rather than a perverted one, the trope should specify that. I realize that Tropes Are Flexible, but there's a sharp enough difference between a flirtatious smack by a spouse or significant other and a perverted smack by a Dirty Old Man or Handsome Lech.
  • My vote's to send it back in order to focus it on one or the other (or to separate the examples into Flirtatious and Perverted, with a rename to suit the distinctive nature of the article).
• Actually Real Magic: What is this supposed to be? Send it back. Example as a Thesis is super confusing me right now.
  • "This guy is an idiot. His or her commitment to realism is just about to get everybody sucked into hell. Still, nobody is ever, ever, going to forget the show they put on. E-V-E-R." Is this a bit of trivia for when the writer or director uses actual occult material? Or is this when a character uses "real" magic unwittingly?
  • In other words, is it actually Actually Real Magic or is it actually Unwitting Magic User?
• Deus Ex Savant: Isn't this just Disability Superpower + Child Prodigy + Deus ex Machina? What does the character's race, gender, or age have to do with this? The Rainman "may overlap"? How? Have I become jaded? My vote is to cut this.
• Casual Sports Jersey: Cut. Send it back. Split it into it's different tropes.
• Misplaced Bubbles: "This makes absolutely no sense. There are a few reasons." Flat "What".
  • Actually, I've been on an Aquaman kick for a few weeks now, and I've got to say that there can be a point to this trope. The underwater sequences look as though the action is taking above the water and you can easily forget that these characters are not flying but are instead swimming. Until the little bubbles show up out of nowhere.
  • My vote is to send it back in order to revise the description so that it focuses more on why a writer or artist might use this rather than the illogical nature of the trope. And also to take out the ZCE.
• Mystery Arc: Insta-cut. I'm gonna put as much effort into understanding this "trope" as its author did in writing it. Throws shade everywhere.
• Most Definitely Not Accompanying Us: Keep. Someone with time on their hands, i.e., not me I'm a student help I can't leave, should crosswick that. Some of those examples are really popular works, so the inbounds should start popping up pretty quick once it's crosswicked.
• Magical Guide: Send it back in order to focus the description. It shouldn't be "a character who is magical in some way" but rather "a character who is a Fantasitic Race or Magic User" or something like that. Also, how does this guide help The Hero? Is this the person in the Hero's Journey who gives The Hero the entrance into the magical world? Or what?
• Act Of True Love Stalemate: Cut.
• Poverty Porn: I still think the name's fine. People are saying it's terrible, but it seems to be a matter of their taste rather than anything else. I'm not trying to be this trope's champion, but it is an actual term. Other names for this concept include Development Porn (I'd suggest not to use this since it would confuse tropers into thinking it has to do with Development Hell), Famine Porn, or Stereotype Porn.
  • Also, my point about "the title makes me think of X" still stands. False Cause has nothing to do with a false cause but instead is about the logical fallacy "Post Hoc, Ergo Propter Hoc."
• The Princess And The Pirate: Redirect it to the work page. But put something on the page other than just the redirect markup because someone might cut it as a Main/ redirect. "Was a trope that was All Girls Want Bad Boys but more specific to pirates. Was potentially stealing the inbounds from the film." Or something like that. I mean, the film has single digit inbounds and could probably use the help.
• Film Of The Ride: What is it a supertrope to? The page doesn't say? There are only a few examples, but I can't imagine that this is a particularly popular trope to start with so I'm fine with keeping it, but I think it needs (1) to specify what it's subtropes are if it's really Missing Supertrope Syndrome and (2) more tropes in its description, even if it's just a "See also" I mean really it's weird that it only has one trope being referenced.
• Where They Were: If it's really just the inverse of "Where Are They Now?" Epilogue, then my vote is to cut. If it can't be expanded, my vote is to cut because I don't think it's been doing anything since 2008. Minus the ZCE there only three examples.
• Gentle Touch vs. Firm Hand: No real change in my previous comment. Leaving this in this post to continue the discussion (i.e. so it doesn't fall through the cracks again).
• Creator's Pest: I think it's fine also.
• Incident Of Way Back When: Cut. It's Noodle Incident but more specific.
• Literature.Allie Beckstrom: It just needs a pimp to come along and fill out the description. It has 45 wicks, which implies that it's pretty healthy I'd think, and also has 63 inbounds. You could mention it around the wiki or just put it on Pages Needing An Entry Pimp (45/28). I don't know what you wanna do, but making people aware of the article might be what it needs.

Re: Allie Beckstrom: I just found the Needs A Better Description page and added it.

^By my reading, Pages Needing An Entry Pimp is specifically for soliciting crosswicking, and I just did that. I just haven't gotten around to commenting out the associated Zero Context Examples on the trope pages (which will unfortunately make the situation worse for the work page, not better).

Mystical Item TM just launched and I think it needs a better name because the examples are not necessarily about trademarked items (several examples are just generic food items with magical properties). I'm thinking Mundane Magical Item which was suggested in the TLP discussion would have made a better name.

edited 5th Feb '17 4:48:13 PM by ADrago

For convenience's sake about the title (link to YKTTW):

• The sponsor (and launcher) did not take the other suggestions into consideration.
• Two people suggested three different titles between them, and then the sponsor suggested a fourth title, which is the current title.
  • To be fair, he waited a while for responses (going off of the time-stamps here), but I think the sponsor should have bumped the draft asking for responses.

• I was thinking of Needs A Better Description but couldn't find it / think of the name for some reason (which is dumb, I know, but still).
• I understand Pages Needing An Entry Pimp to be for imbalances in the wick-to-example ratio. But on second thought, it's a particular problem for tropes when there are more wicks than examples, I guess.

edited 5th Feb '17 3:44:52 PM by WaterBlap

I noticed that Cameron 178 launched a few empty recap pages: Dark Matter Shadowhunters Sweet Vicious Quantico Killjoys

edited 6th Feb '17 9:07:51 AM by Silverblade2

Bunsen Is a Beast was created on 27th January and so far has only one trope.

Also the character page for the same work — created 5 days ago has only two examples on one line — which is being misused regardly of which of the 2 tropes it matches with.

I say leave it for now. It's a bit of a stub, but the show will air in two weeks and it's a Nick Toons show. There's no concern about it not eventually thriving and the main page at least is well-done enough. If we cut it, we run the risk of someone remaking it in a worse fashion.

Isn't Actually Real Magic just Real After All or And You Thought It Was a Game?

Real After All involves disproving something, until the reveal shows it's real. And You Thought It Was a Game is a person or group dismissing the fantastic as staged, only to be told it's real.

Actually Real Magic is where someone tries to stage something, only for it to become real.

That said, And You Thought It Was a Game has some massive overlap.

When Props Attack just got launched and it has... problems. Aside from the massive ZCE problem, the examples treat "character In-Universe is pretending to fight an inanimate object" the same as the Fight Scene Failure described in the actual trope description.

edited 7th Feb '17 11:12:47 AM by Larkmarn

The primary difference is Actually Real Magic involves the intent to stage, rather than the assumption something is staged. Both can happen in the same moment, as different characters observe the event, but they can also exist separately. The audience could avert And You Thought It Was a Game and react appropriately to the accidentally summoned demon. A full wizard can intentionally summon a demon and be dismissed as a fake.

edited 7th Feb '17 10:34:59 AM by sailing101

That makes sense, thanks.

@2924

Sorry for the necro, but what's the status of Synnintekijä? I can't find a works page, and the Goodreads page suggests that's the Finnish title of The Sinner. I was cleaning up the Characters/Literature page. and it's currently a red link.

edited 10th Feb '17 5:01:30 AM by FuzzyBoots

FanWorks.Well Intentioned Extremist seems to be misplaced

Went ahead and cut listed that.

the same user created another misplaced page at FanWorks.Sizeshifter I'm not sure about the protocol here

If they are a serial offender in making pages like that, you'd best report them via ATT.