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In an effort to keep the volume of threads in IP at a reasonable level, and to encourage creating threads that address genuine problems, we need to make some notes about when to request a thread and what constitutes valid reasons for a thread. These have been mentioned in some of the other IP procedure threads, but they're being listed here for quick reference.

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    Approval of threads 
New IP threads must be approved by the staff before they will be opened. Please take time to review the guidelines below and make sure your request is solid before submitting it.

    General notes on adding/changing images and requesting threads 
  • IP isn't obligatory, but it is strongly recommended. Otherwise, the image you put up may end up coming to the forum for work or replacement.
  • Pages that have gone through IP should have a commented-out tag showing the relevant thread(s). Always check for these before adding a pic or requesting an IP thread for a page.
  • Keep the quality criteria listed below in mind when making an image suggestion.
  • For pages without pics:
    • Work pages generally don't require an IP thread to upload a pic, but feel free to start a thread if you have multiple ideas or use the Image Suggestion thread to float single ideas.
    • Please have a concrete suggestion for a trope page. This is relaxed a bit for tropes that are fresh out of TLP, when a pic idea might not have surfaced during the build process.
  • A thread requested within two weeks of the closing of a previous thread on the same page that doesn't have a concrete suggestion will be denied immediately.
  • Animated GIFs aren't allowed as page pics. True Art Is Incomprehensible is the one exception, per admin fiat.note 
  • It usually takes 5-7 [tup] votes for a pic to be considered to have consensus in a thread. In crowners, a 2:1 ratio is considered the bare minimum for consensus, with 1.86:1 as a "only considered if that's the best and other options are less than that" level.

    IP thread reasons 
The following are reasons to instantly pull an image and make a request to replace it:

  • Not Safe For Work (NSFW)
    • If you're unsure on whether a pic fits this or not, comment it out or ask before outright pulling it.
    • Classic works of art containing nudity, such as Michelangelo's David or Botticelli's The Birth of Venus, don't necessarily fall into this, but appropriateness for the page in question is the key factor, and SFW options should be considered whenever possible.
  • Spoiler
  • Watermarking. A TV channel emblem on a screencap is a "bug", not a true watermark, and is permissible as long as it's not obtrusive.
  • Meme-based images are not permitted as page pics. The sole general exception is a work's Memes page, where they should only be considered if there are no better options.Other exceptions 
  • Copyright issues:
    • The pic implies TV Tropes is claiming the copyright.
    • The pic has been taken from a site that deals in copyrighted images or videos, especially if a watermark has been removed and/or the site is selling their content. Screencaps from videos from these sites are not permitted, either.
    • Using an entire work:
      • Basically, if it's copyrighted, we have to get permission to use it. This covers single-panel cartoons, photographs, entire comic strips and webcomics, and similar works. If permission is granted to use a work, it's always noted on the page in some fashion, usually in the caption and/or with the page tag. If an artist requests a specific way to display their connection to the pic, we'll do our best to honor it.
      • Some artists, such as xkcd's creator, have given us carte blanche to use entire works as needed. Permission notices for such cases aren't required.
      • Entire cards from card-based games like Magic: The Gathering are impractical but can be used. Using the art from these cards is fine.
      • Any such work that's in the public domain is free to use.
    • Some creators do not want their work used outside their control at all, but fair use means that we are not legally bound to honor this for the wiki's purposes, aside from the aforementioned restrictions. We'll honor a take-down request, but it's up to them to send it. We're not obliged to chase them down and ask them what their policy is. Fair use also allows us to use excerpts of works without seeking permission. In this case, the minimum needed to get the trope across should be used.

The following are valid general reasons to request a thread:

  • Single suggestions for a page without a pic. These are currently being filtered through the Image Suggestion thread instead of getting their own threads right off the bat. Those that don't end up on a page will have threads created to try to find a pic.
  • The current pic doesn't adequately demonstrate the trope. Examples of this include:
    • Just a Face and a Caption (JAFAAC)—the pic shows an example of the trope but relies on familiarity with its subject(s) to make the connection to the trope evident.
    • A pic that is nothing but text, or one where the text overwhelms the imagery. You may see "might as well be a page quote" used in IP to describe this. There are exceptions (Spoof Aesop, for example), especially for dialogue-based tropes, but generally we want to have actual images as page pics with just enough text to support the expression of the trope.
  • Poor image quality. Graininess, motion blur, and artifactingnote  are three of the most common problems.
Oversized pics are forced by the page coding to 350 px width, which can make the image look artifacted. Check the image's properties before starting a thread; if it can be downsized and replaced, it may not need a thread.
  • The current pic is over the 350 px size limit and you'd like to suggest a new pic rather than upload a resized version.
  • Fan-art on a work page instead of an image from the work itself.
  • The current pic is overly fanservicey, especially in the Creator/ namespace. In the case of Fanservice tropes, pics should be as low-key as possible while still getting the trope across.
  • Two trope pages have the same pic. A work and trope can have the same image but it's preferred that they be separate.
  • You believe you have a suggestion that better illustrates the trope than the current pic (by Image Pickin' standards, not "This is a cooler pic.")
  • A pic has been changed or removed from a page for a reason that may not be valid, or no reason at all, especially if the pic was chosen by a previous IP thread.
  • A page marked as No Real Life Examples, Please! has a Real Life pic.Exceptions 
  • A YMMV or Audience Reaction page has a pic that is not In-Universe.Exceptions 
  • A page has an unusual image arrangement not chosen by an IP thread and you don't think it works well, e.g. having two images on a trope page. Some pages have multiple pics for a reason (Our Orcs Are Different, for example) so check for an IP tag before starting a thread in this case.

The following are NOT valid reasons to request a thread:

  • Not liking the art style, layout/design, or any Photoshopping or similar alterations that may have been made, provided they don't impact the pic's quality.
  • Claiming that a particular work is over-/under-represented. This can have some impact on deciding on a pic, but should never be the main gist of a thread.
  • Trying to argue that a pic you liked wasn't chosen in a previous thread, especially if it lost in a crowner, or trying to make an invalid argument that a pic doesn't work for a page even though it was chosen by a thread. Repeatedly doing this is grounds for suspension from the workshop forums.
  • Some trope pages feature Visual Puns or other jokey pics rather than something that actually demonstrates the trope, usually because these pages have been very hard to find a better pic for.Examples  Don't request a thread just because you don't like the joke; if you've got an actual example, that's fine. Also, see the "Don't change the pic" note in the next section.

    Special cases 
Some pages' pics have a unique status that must be noted before making a thread about them. This should be made clear in a commented-out tag on the page.

Edited by Willbyr on Nov 15th 2018 at 4:01:06 AM

suedenim Teutonic Tomboy T-Girl from Jet Dream HQ
Teutonic Tomboy T-Girl
Oct 10th 2011 at 6:58:05 AM

I'd be in favor of a more nuanced approach to LOL Cats and possibly the occasional demotivator (though they have the added problem of virtually always becoming illegible at 350 pixels), but Fast Eddie's policy seems to be "nuke on sight" for those categories.

Jet-a-Reeno!
Oct 10th 2011 at 9:08:29 AM

It is hard to get mobs of editors to do nuance. Things like meme images are not worth the time.

Goal: Clear, Concise and Witty
Spark9 Gentleman Troper! from Castle Wulfenbach Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Gentleman Troper!
Oct 10th 2011 at 10:00:23 AM

It's a clear and succinct guideline, I think this is a good addition to the forum.

My proverbial two cents,

  • For the sake of clarity, please either spell out or link acronyms like NSFW and JAFAAC.

  • I would like to add a line stating that if a page has no image, then you can go ahead and add one without starting a thread (unless, of course, the page has a notice that tells you not to). Likewise, please point out that if a page has an image, don't replace it without discussion first (unless it's an instant pull). By the way, if you do an instant pull, should you make a IP thread to indicate you've done so?

  • The line for "if you have a suggestion" should add that you need to have an actual picture to show in your first post, not just a vague line like "wouldn't it be cool if..."

  • I think the three criteria about copyright ("is copyrighted in a manner", "is an entire strip", and "is a deviantART") should be grouped together, probably as sub-bullets. Furthermore, I would like to have clarified what is meant by the latter; I was not under the impression that we normally ask for permission to show e.g. a screencap or part of a webcomic, so where is the line?

  • I'm not sure why "over the size limit" needs to be listed here, considering the uploader doesn't let you upload such pictures in the first place. If anything, it belongs under "not valid reasons to start a thread" because it doesn't need a thread, you can just shrink and replace.

  • Finally, are animated GI Fs allowed?

Special trousers. Very heroic.
Ultimatum ◕_ from England Relationship Status: Holding out for a hero
◕_
Oct 10th 2011 at 3:01:04 PM

GI Fs are not allowed.

Shocked,surprised and a little concerned.🎄
troacctid "µ." from California
Oct 10th 2011 at 3:50:12 PM

Animated .gifs are allowed on Image Links but cannot be uploaded as page images.

Rhymes with "Protracted."
Willbyr Anime-ted from North Little Rock, AR Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Anime-ted
Oct 10th 2011 at 4:31:28 PM

[up][up][up] To your next-to-last point - there are still pics floating around that are over the size limit that were put on pages before the uploader had the limit set; I changed one a coupla days ago. I potholed NSFW and JAFAAC.

EDIT: Alright, I think I got everything you mentioned. To the question about parts of a strip - I know we've had this discussion multiple times, I just can't remember where.

edited 10th Oct '11 5:06:36 PM by Willbyr

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Spark9 Gentleman Troper! from Castle Wulfenbach Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Gentleman Troper!
Oct 11th 2011 at 3:31:06 AM

Looks good.

I would prefer if an explanatory sticky didn't use those little stars that you have to click on to expand them. If the information is important (and I think it is), it shouldn't be hidden like that; if the information is not important, then it shouldn't be there.

Also, I have no idea what "Reaction Guys" are.

Why aren't we allowed to start a discussion thread on a page marked as "no picture"? Surely we can change our mind about such pages at some point?

Special trousers. Very heroic.
Willbyr Anime-ted from North Little Rock, AR Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Anime-ted
Oct 11th 2011 at 4:31:39 AM

[up] Usually if a page is tagged "no pic", it's by admin decree. There may be some pages floating around that are tagged "not pictureable"...those should have an IP thread tagged on them for reference.

I can't rememeber the trope page that the pic is on but the Reaction Guys are the dudes on the couch who are looking "meh" in relation to one pic and "YAY!" in relation to another.

I don't mind the hottips, but I'll tinker around with the formatting later on today.

edited 11th Oct '11 4:32:56 AM by Willbyr

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Willbyr Anime-ted from North Little Rock, AR Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Anime-ted
Oct 11th 2011 at 7:38:24 AM

Alright, finished with the latest round of edits. I moved the "no page pic" part to its own section since, IIRC, there have been cases where someone's found or made a pic that has worked for either of those instances...could be wrong, and if that's the case, I'll move it back.

edited 11th Oct '11 7:39:02 AM by Willbyr

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Deboss I see the Awesomeness. from Awesomeville Texas
Willbyr Anime-ted from North Little Rock, AR Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Anime-ted
Oct 11th 2011 at 8:58:59 AM

Cool; I split that line to its own sub-bullet and added that link and a reference to Real Women Never Wear Dresses since that page uses them. There's others, aren't there?

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Deboss I see the Awesomeness. from Awesomeville Texas
I see the Awesomeness.
Oct 11th 2011 at 9:23:43 AM

Good god, that's a lot of description on that page.

Fight smart, not fair.
Willbyr Anime-ted from North Little Rock, AR Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Anime-ted
Oct 11th 2011 at 10:00:14 AM

[up] An admitted problem of mine...I'm working on un-SL'ing it right now. That being said, I'd rather it be long and clear than over-concise and too vague.

EDIT: Alright, trimmed some fat...better?

edited 11th Oct '11 10:14:15 AM by Willbyr

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JapaneseTeeth -intrigued- from Meinong's jungle Relationship Status: Mu
Deboss I see the Awesomeness. from Awesomeville Texas
I see the Awesomeness.
Oct 11th 2011 at 5:54:46 PM

A lot of back and forth. Analysis and all that.

Fight smart, not fair.
Oct 12th 2011 at 7:47:53 AM

I made some changes to the OP.

  • Deviant Art is no different than any other source. No need to have an item about it.
  • Images that work because of speech bubble text are fine.
  • Great captions are great. We can't have a rule that says "It only works because of the caption, it's out."
  • Example Indentation was b0rked. Can't have that in a document about policy, for sure.

edited 12th Oct '11 7:48:49 AM by FastEddie

Goal: Clear, Concise and Witty
Willbyr Anime-ted from North Little Rock, AR Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Anime-ted
Oct 12th 2011 at 10:23:05 AM

Nevermind

edited 12th Oct '11 10:24:25 AM by Willbyr

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troacctid "µ." from California
Oct 12th 2011 at 8:02:22 PM

If Image Pickin' decides a trope is unpicturable, you don't need staff permission to start a new thread. It's the same as starting a thread for any other trope that has a pre-existing IP decision—come bearing better suggestions or be shot down.

Rhymes with "Protracted."
Willbyr Anime-ted from North Little Rock, AR Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Anime-ted
Oct 13th 2011 at 4:13:01 AM

[up] Yeah, I've been debating how to address that...that section probably just needs to be called "Special cases" and the part about talking to the higher-ups made a criteria for the "admin request"...heading off to edit.

EDIT: Done.

I'm wondering if something about a page that's had multiple threads about its pic (like The Wesley) should be made another special case...maybe "If a page has had multiple threads yet kept its pic, it's probably not worth making another thread unless you've got a slam-dunk replacement in mind".

edited 13th Oct '11 4:20:24 AM by Willbyr

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JapaneseTeeth -intrigued- from Meinong's jungle Relationship Status: Mu
-intrigued-
Oct 13th 2011 at 7:24:20 AM

[up]I don't think there's really such a thing as a "slam dunk replacement", at the very least you can't really tell until people comment on it. I've seen a few threads where somebody goes "Guy, I have the perfect picture for this", only for overwhelming consensus to be for keeping the old picture.

That and with the number of threads we have going, our priority is replacing pictures that are actually bad or adding pictures where there are none. Replacing pictures that already work okay is a secondary goal, especially if it's a page that's likely to take forever without getting anywhere. I don't think it's worth the trouble.

Reaction Image Repository/Insane Pony Thread posts
Willbyr Anime-ted from North Little Rock, AR Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Anime-ted
Oct 13th 2011 at 9:31:36 AM

[up] True on all accounts...it's not gonna bug me to not have that on the list, but I figured it's worth discussing.

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Catalogue A pocketful of saudade. from where the good times are
A pocketful of saudade.
Dec 29th 2011 at 12:46:18 AM

Real Women Don't Wear Dresses doesn't use the Reaction Guys anymore.

The words above are to be read as if they are narrated by Morgan Freeman.
Willbyr Anime-ted from North Little Rock, AR Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Anime-ted
lamoxlamae Relationship Status: In my bunk
Dec 31st 2011 at 11:22:55 PM

Can someone give me some feedback on a sticky Image Pickin' situation?

On Everybody Wants the Hermaphrodite an image pickin' thread was launched and someone pulled the image the same day. The image was SFW, not watermarked, not a spoiler, and not a demotivator, however, someone contested it as a possible JAFAAC which is why the thread was made.

I put it back as it was not pulled for any of the "instant pull" reasons and it was pulled before a full discussion could be had on the subject. Someone pulled it again within a couple hours even though a full decision has not been made yet.

Should I put it back again or should the image pull be allowed to stay even though the discussion is still going on and the image was pulled without meeting the instant pull criteria?

I'm afraid to put it back as someone may just remove it again and I don't want to start an edit war. If added back, what should be done to prevent things from being pulled prematurely again?

What should the proper protocol be on this one, guys?

If it helps anything, here's the discussion page (pardon messy link) https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=1324250965076171100

edited 31st Dec '11 11:37:42 PM by lamoxlamae


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