Comic Book The Joker Discussion

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notbobby125
Topic
06:16:10 PM Feb 26th 2012
How does the Joker not have a Nightmare fuel page? IT IS THE JOKER FOR PETE SAKE! This guy is a physco clown, he has PLENTY of scenes that would justify him having his own page.
KorKhan
12:39:43 AM Mar 8th 2012
Nothing to stop you from making one yourself. It'd be High Octane Nightmare Fuel rather than the accidental variety, of course.
notbobby125
10:24:31 PM May 24th 2012
edited by notbobby125
I would if I knew how to connect it to the main page. I have also not read many comics, and the examples in the "funny," "heart warming," and "Awesome pages" all are filled with examples from the Comics.

The examples I have seen myself (the films, cartoons, etc) are generally already covered in the nightmare fuel pages from those works.
InvisibleJester
06:56:45 PM Jun 17th 2012
As a huge Joker fan, if you need examples for said HONF page, I'll gladly help out. I've read quite a few Joker tales as well as seen various films he's been in, played games he's been in, read fanfic, etc. So if you do need help with examples, notbobby125, PM me.

Of course, said High Octane Nightmare Fuel Crowner page (Is that even considered a Crowner page?) would NOT be in the Joker's POV. The Just for Fun article it's attached to already has that, and while I personally find it amusing, No Just No - it doesn't belong in the Crowners.
KorKhan
Topic
05:02:10 AM Jan 17th 2012
Just removed a section from the Joker Immunity example stating that the Joker gets executed offscreen in The Dark Knight Saga. I can't find any evidence for it online, and I believe it is still not known to the public what his eventual fate in the films will be. If any new statements crop up supporting it, feel free to re-add this. Until that day, this seems to me to be mere rumour and speculation.

"Although that other time, when the state put me to death for my crimes before The Dark Knight Rises, they didn't need to make doubly sure I was dead—and it's that damn Heath Ledger's fault for dying on me before The Dark Knight was even released!"
InvisibleJester
07:04:59 PM Jun 17th 2012
I think that may have been a So Bad, It's Good, Gallows Humor pun on Heath Ledger's death, but if it is, it's a huge stretch and just not funny enough to be something that the Joker would actually say as a character. Come on, Tropers, we can do better than that. :)

If, however, someone DOES find evidence that the Joker was indeed killed between The Dark Knight and The Dark Knight Rises, go for it. I highly doubt the films will ever talk about it; in fact, I don't think they ever will. More than likely that Joker is in a Max-security prison elsewhere, charged with life in prison, since it is never outright confirmed nor denied that whatever state Gotham City is located in has a death penalty. That, and even criminals on Death Row are usually given a set date years later to be executed; they're not executed right away. I know it's a film, and I know I'm being overly serious, but if this Gotham functions like our world, then the Joker isn't coming back not because he's dead, but because he's still waiting to be executed, was sentenced to life in prison, or he escaped and is staying relatively low key, biding his time.
TCD
Topic
03:52:22 PM Oct 18th 2011
Look I don't want to be a moany one and all that but could we at least have the option of a proper trope page rather than a POV one? Above it says to check the character sheet yet we go there and instead of any tropes for him being listed it links straight back to this page. Could we either get an alt page on here or a proper listing with tropes on his character page because not having an option is really unfair on the other fifty percent of us. I don't mind this page but come on could we at least get a trope listing in third person somewhere on the wiki for the Joker?
Chaste
08:41:19 PM Oct 21st 2011
I agree. Reading the one in Joker's POV is...jarring.
InvisibleJester
07:06:07 PM Jun 17th 2012
edited by InvisibleJester
There's a character page that discusses the characters as a whole without the POV thing. As for the tropes, what's the problem with there being POV discussion after the tropes? If you're looking for examples of how the Joker fits those tropes, they should already be on the page for that trope, right? And if they aren't, then you or someone else can always add them.
dontcallmewave
Topic
07:21:19 PM Jan 24th 2011
which stinger Should stay?:

Waldorf: So this man's a comedian and a criminal?
Statler: Why not? They're one and the same anyway!
Both and a third voice: Doh-ho-ho-ho-ho!
Statler and Waldorf: Ho-ho? Ho-Ho-h...no-
OH-HO-HO-HO-HO-HO-HO-*hurk*
Joker: (still Laughing) Oh-ho-ho-ho-ho-ho! Hee-hee-hee. Heh.

OR

(Inside spoiler tags) Admit it.... you heard this whole thing in Mark Hamill's voice!

there is currently a discussion over here in regard to the S&W stingers, and I was told that I should ask on the discussion page,

Kersey475
Topic
09:50:14 AM Dec 27th 2010
Hey Joker, what's your opinion of Deadpool?
RubberLotus
Topic
03:18:15 PM Dec 21st 2010
Guys, I'm thinking about... rebooting the page, so to speak. The more I look at what I wrote in my earlier, more amateurish days, the more painful it is to read. For the time being, I'll save a copy of the original description here.

Well! Finally got my own page, did I? 'bout time! I was created in the forties, for Pete's sake! I've been around way longer than Superham's cousin! Why'd she get her own page first?! Well, it's not too bad, I guess... at least I can still gloat to Lexy about getting my own page first... As for that guy with the yellow ring...? He only wishes he was half as scary as me!

Oh, you were looking for information on moi? I'm flattered, really, but, uh... SHOULDN'T YOU KNOW WHO I AM ALREADY?! Alright, alright, fine. Here's My Card (from the bottom of the deck of course) and the lowdown...

Me and the Bat are two peas in a pod. I'm the better-looking pea, of course, but that's beside the point. The point is, Billy Finger and Bobby Kane made me in good ol' 1940, back when heroes were allowed to kill, everyone Asian spoke with their R's and L's mixed up, and the art was worse than something drawn by a 6-year old with crayons ('course, Jerry Robinson said he had a hand too, but that's not my department)... I gave that flying rodent a good runaround in Batman #1 (I was modest enough to give him the title...), and soon enough, I began carving out my own little niche.

But, as it turned out, that wasn't enough! No, they planned to whack me in my second appearance! Can you believe that?! But, someone (in this case, Whitney Ellsworth) came through for me, and I lived through a self-inflicted stabbing after all. So, instead of dying painfully, I only had to endure six months of agonizing hospital time! Those were the glory days... I'd show up, make a bit of trouble, kill a couple people, get foiled by Fatman, and escape at the last minute. Gambling rackets, sniping FBI agents, I've seen (and done) it all. I was even executed once, y'know. 'course, The Grim Reaper couldn't hold me, and I came back... just in time to witness the rising of the Comics Code. (Hoo...and some people thought I was evil and insane....heh heh heh...)

(Maybe I should've stayed buried a bit longer...)

Well, you all know what happened next. Batman and that brat Robin were joined by Batwoman, Bat-Girl, Bat-Hound, Bat-Mite (yeesh, what's next? Bat-butler?), and no one was allowed to kill ever again. And we all lived happily ever after... NOT! Then again, I can't say that it was ever boring then. I was allowed to play with bigger toys - everything from my own utility belt to giant record players (where the heck does Gotham get all that stuff, anyhow?). I even managed to get all of Gotham City to marvel at my enormous BONER!

But nothing lasts forever, does it? (Save the memory of Tom and Jerry).

Come The Bronze Age of Comic Books, I was finally allowed to roam free again, and what a joy it was! Blowing off people's heads with exploding cigars and feeding them to sharks! It seems that finally, the heads at DC Comics got brains - it was here that I got my own series! And it lasted all of... nine issues...

(Beat.)

Ah, well, who gives a damn about all that? The '70s might have returned me to life, but it was The '80s that were really my heyday. You might recall an obscure little book called The Killing Joke written by some nobody called Alan Moore. If you haven't... GET OVER THERE AND READ IT, AND DON'T CALL YOURSELF A FAN OF MINE UNTIL YOU'VE MEMORIZED EVERY WORD!

Done? Good. Less than a year afterward, DC made the historical decision of killing off Robin - 'bout time, too. But just a little heads-up, it was Jason Todd, not Dick Grayson. Who was Jason Todd? Who cares? All you need to know is that every reader hated his guts, enough that they voted to have him die. But with an outfit like that, can you really blame them? Hell, thirteen of those votes came from yours truly!

Anyhoo, the poll was set up, the calls were made, and I gave poor li'l Jason a spanking he'll never forget. Rest in pieces. Then I got shot. And got trapped on an exploding helicopter. And vanished for all of a few months. And I still made it back in time for the holidays. From there on, my life's been just one giant rollercoaster ride (occasionally of the Hawaiian variety, but usually not). 'specially since I killed Jimmy Gordon's wife during that earthquake.

Hold on, where're you going? D'ya think we're done with my life? Not even close! I've poisoned all the fish on the eastern and western seaboard and tried to patent them! I've become God and brought the whole universe to its knees! I've killed Siskel and Ebert, fer cripes sake!

But no, you don't care about any of that, do you? I bet you came to this page because you were so impressed by that pencil trick. No? The dreadlocked monkey-man in a straitjacket with that sexy, sexy laugh, then? Perhaps you remember the days when I faced off with Adam West? The pointy-chinned me voiced by Mark Hamill? The meaty ol' me played by Jack Nicholson? The Silver Age - esque me? Or was it the version of me that turned into a twenty-foot tall muscleman? That latest one voiced by some Bender...'s actor? Or how about the one where I was a woman?

'Course, any version of me is good as long as you don't think I'm that other psychotic, fourth-wall breaking clown who works for those Marvel guys. I'm not really fond of Mr. Wilson, but I do love friending him on that Facebook thingy and asking him to "do that pencil trick". It just gives me that warm, fuzzy feeling inside.

Well, that conversation was certainly uplifting, wouldn't you say? Look at how widely you're grinning. Ooh, and look at that! Your complexion is clearing right up. And that hair...! So rich a shade of green that only your undertaker'll know for sure. And that laugh! Isn't it beautiful? Not too shabby a rhythm for a white guy!

Ohhhh, don't give me that look. You were the one that took that card from me! Sheesh, how dumb can ya get? Oh, straighten up. It's not the end of the world. Only yours.

Ahh, that was fun, but I really should be going. I'm late for Battyman's funeral. Wish you could come, but this jet pack only holds one! Up, up... and AWAAAAAAAAYYYYYAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!
MrDeath
03:20:21 PM Dec 21st 2010
Reboot it to what, exactly?
RubberLotus
03:52:16 PM Dec 21st 2010
You'll see.
MrDeath
11:31:16 AM Dec 28th 2010
How about no. Don't just change the whole page without consensus.
RubberLotus
01:00:49 PM Dec 28th 2010
Fine, fine...

I start a "Trope Repair Shop" discussion for this kind of stuff, right?
NekoInc
Topic
04:52:00 PM Aug 8th 2010
A random observation, nothing too serious:

Picture a Norio Wakamoto Joker.

When I think this, the only series I can think of Joker referencing is Code Geass. The results... Well, let's see others get creative there :P
Raidouthe21st
Topic
10:49:18 AM Jul 10th 2010
edited by Raidouthe21st
Guys, there's been discussion of removing or gutting the page. Their main point of contention is that its not outright informative enough, and that it should at least show the works he's appeared. I'm not that good at writing, so for now, here's a rough list of major Joker appearances. Any I missed or ones that should be left out?

  • Batman: The Killing Joke
  • Batman: The Man Who Laughs
  • Batman Adventures: Mad Love
  • Batman: A Death in the Family
  • Joker: Devil's Advocate
  • Arkham Asylum: A Serious House on Serious Earth
  • Emperor Joker
  • Joker (graphic novel)
  • Part of the No Man's Land series
  • Salvation Run
  • Joker's Last Laugh
  • Infinite Crisis
koook160
Topic
02:17:56 PM Jul 2nd 2010
I wanted to make a reference to Heath Ledger's Oscar win under Academy Awards, but I can't think of a good line. Any suggestions?
Kersey475
09:48:31 AM Dec 27th 2010
edited by Kersey475
How bout "That Heath boy won me a (posthumous) Oscar for his marvelous permormance as me in The Dark Knight. Who knew that a gay cowboy would make such a great me? Now who should I beat to death with it first?"
dontcallmewave
Topic
09:50:03 AM Jul 2nd 2010
someone has to write deadpools page like this!
71.163.64.58
Topic
03:42:14 PM Jun 4th 2010
Yeah... I'm not sure how many of you are going to believe me, but I'm the guy who wrote the original version of this page. Pretty much all of the original draft's remained intact, with everything new being added on instead of replacing anything.

Funny thing - I never wrote the article intending for it to have a list of tropes (Joker's entry in the Batman Characters page kind of already takes care of that). I intended to have it take after the Supergirl page, which lacks such a feature.

What can I say? I've always been a big fan of The Joker. Looking back on this, I can't help but think that some parts are a bit stiff and awkward for someone as smooth-talking as Mistah J, but hey, what's done is done. And the whole "have him spell out his history" thing WAS planned from the start, as was him killing whoever reads the page. :)

- Rubber Lotus.

Gloom
04:06:24 PM Jun 4th 2010
I was the one who began the list of tropes... I thought that having him explain how they apply to him had potential for teh funnehs.
dontcallmewave
09:29:00 PM Jun 24th 2010
you, sirs, are awesome.
seruomen
01:28:23 AM Jan 21st 2011
Rubber, Gloomy, I've sent the both of you private messages for something specific regarding your work here. Hope you get around to them soon.
LikaLaruku
Topic
11:59:30 PM May 29th 2010
This whole page needs to be redone in a non-character POV, with issue citations for every direct reference. & since Morrison's canon revamp of the Joker, this is kinda out-of-character now. It's nonsencical, extremely vague, & hard to understand.
LikaLaruku
12:04:56 AM May 30th 2010
edited by LikaLaruku
Also, reading it... It reeks of Batman Tas Joker. The Timmverse, Nolanverse, Millerverse, Elseworlds, Burtonverse, the Silver Age, Golden Age, Bronze Age, Dark Age, Modern Age, Morrison-Revamped, & Romero Jokers are all completely different. Every 10 or 20 years the Joker is revamped in ways writers couldn;t get away with in other character. Every 10 or 20 years something like Chrisis on Infinate Earths & Zero Hour happen that retcon almost everything that happened before they took place, & he has many different origin stories that contradict eachother, most notalby the old Killing Joke & the recent Lovers & Madmen.
LikaLaruku
12:16:02 AM May 30th 2010
Okey, I don't mean to sound angry. :( It's just that this is written fan-fiction style rather than informative. It's not legible like Deadpool's page, & he's like the Joker of the Marvel Universe.
HarpieSiren
05:48:46 AM May 30th 2010
This page is Just for Fun. We have a neutral, informative look at the Joker on the Batman character page

...

Also, citations, really? Were you looking for The Other Wiki and got lost?
Gloom
05:59:49 AM May 30th 2010
"Reeks of BTAS Joker"? The POV actually made me think more of the Batman: Arkham Asylum Joker, (then again he was very similar to BTAS Joker if he was allowed to cut loose a little more.) BAA Joker was basically a Composite Character of various Jokers, making him the best candidate, and if any Joker should be the POV, it should be one of Mark Hamill's, as he voiced the character for longer than anyone else.
Iaculus
10:52:38 AM May 30th 2010
Arkham Asylum was (mostly) done by the same folks who did BTAS, so it is unsurprising that there would be similarities.
MrDeath
08:19:37 PM May 30th 2010
TV Tropes is not Wikipedia. The page is listed as Just for Fun, so should be kept as a fun page. As is mentioned, there's a perfectly straight and boring character entry for him on the character sheet, so I see no reason to remove the chicken, lettuce, tomato, bacon and mayo that is this delicious page and leave it as plain old white bread.

...

Dammit, now I'm hungry.
dontcallmewave
09:48:47 AM Jul 2nd 2010
stop having fun guys
MagBas
Topic
05:45:42 AM May 15th 2010

Evil counterpart means evil similar or equivalent, not evil opposite.
Lizuka
Topic
03:15:11 PM Mar 9th 2010
For the record, I am incapable of reading this in any voice besides Mark Hamill's, including my own.
Grimace
04:10:46 AM Mar 21st 2010
I know! Me too! It's awesome.
Infinix
02:30:23 PM Mar 28th 2010
...

I don't care what the others are gonna say; whoever made this... chaotically wicked page deserves a 100%-Gold Troper Crown.
PTTG?
09:17:51 PM Mar 29th 2010
"The Joker is the kind of guy who will come up with a plan to kidnap a scientist and have them create a super-pheromone that will attract little old ladies to a warehouse so Joker can feed them into a woodchipper and use the resulting paste to make counterfeit money so he can buy fuel for his ice rocket that will freeze the entire city which will cause everyone to flock to his beverage vendors who will sell them hot chocolate laced with a mutagen designed to drive everyone insane." -Shamus Young, Stolen Pixels

Trying to figure out where to put this.
Gloom
04:32:11 PM Mar 31st 2010
Added it as a quote.
Ayries
02:43:40 PM Apr 23rd 2010
This is a magnificent page and those involved should feel magnificent. And agreeing on the Hamill thing.
dontcallmewave
09:27:13 PM Jun 24th 2010
someone has to write deadpools page like this!
Omicronus
05:20:54 AM Aug 4th 2011
Yes. Just...yes.
Malph
07:02:35 PM Sep 29th 2011
I too can't read the page in any other voice but Hamill's.
AdelePotter
01:08:31 PM Oct 30th 2011
I always read it like Nicholson. I like Ledger's Joker better, but Nicholson was the first film adaption of the Joker I ever saw.
CyberSkull
11:54:07 PM Mar 21st 2012
Yeah, I was just coming to this page to say the same.
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http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/remarks.php?trope=ComicBook.TheJoker