Characters Fire Emblem Discussion

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05:08:29 PM Aug 22nd 2016
I was thinking if Love Interest can be put as an Archetype similar to the Beautiful Priest or the Casanova Wannabe. This is my take:

The Love Interest / Official Couple

Complimenting with the Lord, usually there is one of your units that happens to be close with your Lord. VERY close, that they may be Childhood Friends or something else. By the end of the game, they would end up getting married to seal the Happy Ending. Or sorts (It's complicated, especially when it comes to the Jugdral saga). This is usually in the older games. However, in the more modern games, as freedom was more given to the player to pair the Lord with whoever they damn pleases, these characters would usually end up being the Implied Love Interest. The game might 'encourage' the player to pair these characters with the Lord, but in the end, the final say is in the player's hands: Follow the implications/suggestions or not.

The class is rarely the same in each passing games.

What do you say on this?
09:03:24 PM Aug 24th 2016
edited by acrobox
I;m trying to think if these characters have any distinguishing features to unify beyond being the 'canon' pairing.

  • Caeda for Marth
  • Lillina for Roy
  • Ninian for Eliwood (or Lyn for Hector on his mode),
  • i'm not sure who the most canon pairings for Eirika and Ephraim are beyond themselves. Maybes Innes and Tana. or Seth and Tana.
  • Ike doesn't have one, it was implied to be Elincia but he never reciprocated and she ended up with Geoffrey instead. Sothe for Micaiah. The fan reading of Ike and Soren, but there's nothing solid to confirm that's more than close platonic friendship, and he has a blood descendant later.
  • Sumia for Chrom, Lucina for default Robin.
  • Azura for default Corrin.
07:30:56 PM Sep 18th 2016
edited by ChrisX
I think there will be 'extra perks' when it comes to these 'official pairs'. For instance:
  • Earlier in the series, you CANNOT change the outcome of the pair. Caeda will end up with Marth, no questions, you can't change it to Catria, Linde, Tiki, or just pretty much anyone else (even if you kill off Caeda). The same goes to Sigurd and Deirdre (in fact, it's flat out impossible, the plot hinges on their marriage), as well as Leif and Nanna (although they're pairable to anyone else in Genealogy, Thracia 776 sets this pair in stone, if Nanna survive, she WILL end up marrying Leif).
  • As more series goes, there will be some 'extra scene' when these people are married, or the plot is tailored heavily that it makes a lot more sense if these characters are paired.
    • Although Roy can marry a lot of girls, only by pairing with Lilina that he will get an extra scene with her before witnessing Guinivere's coronation.
    • There are extra scenes available with Lyn when doing a Hector Mode run, though this goes on regardless if both of them are paired with any other. Eliwood-Ninian, well a lot of the plot would be having an extra punch if Eliwood pairs with Ninian and then... well he accidentally killed her temporarily.
    • Eirika and Ephraim, I really have no idea. However, there is one scene in Ephraim route that Tana comforts him after getting Lyon off the hook and restores him from Heroic B.S.O.D.. This might be a sign about Tana, but what bars this is the Eirika version of the scene. She didn't converse with Innes, but with L'arachel instead.
    • While Elincia was a Red Herring and there's the fan reading for Soren, he does enjoy one perk if they're paired: An extra support scene where you had to go out of the way to make it happen where Soren sobs on Ike's shoulders, and also changes his ending for a happier one. So while they don't 'end up together', he came close enough with the perks of a 'main heroine'
    • Sumia is the only girl to appear in a cutscene along with Chrom and is the default 'marriage option' unless the player goes really deliberate. I have no idea why Lucina is considered the default for Robin.
    • Azura is the only character whose support with Corrin changes depending on the route they took, something that can be said more than the other characters who join in every routes.

It's also worth noting that if Official Couple happens in a pairable game, the official couple has the quickest lover rate increase.

What do you think?
08:17:10 PM Jun 5th 2016
edited by ChrisX
Okay, I'm opening discussions for the Archetypes. Anyone who would like to debate, feel free to post, this is to prevent Flame War. I'll start.

First the Maria archetype. I'm not debating its existence, it was actually pretty good. However... Elise's inclusion there seems a bit too forced: In Conquest, she joins early, violating the rule of 'joins mid-game'. In Revelation, she might fit more as she actually joined Mid-game, but... she's not at all in distress. I thought most Maria are instead captured or in distress until they were rescued then joins on full time? There is one event in Conquest where she's forced to be sidelined, but... that's just one event, and you already recruited her, that is not the same as the other Marias who were sidelined BEFORE you rescued and recruited them. All Elise had in common with the archetype is that she's a Troubadour. Not exactly fitting the archetype.

Now, I once put up an alternative: Forrest. Okay, he's a guy, but let's just look at him and how he actually fits the Maria archetype:
  • His class is Troubadour. Yes.
  • Captured? Yes, his recruitment stage is about rescuing him when he got kidnapped.
  • Is he mid-game? Yes! Leo is available in the middle way of Conquest, and from that you can work on him so he bore Forrest soon. This is even easier in Revelation where Challenges are available, so as soon as you get Leo (he's one of the last guys to join, but that wasn't nearing endgame), you can grind his support then get Forrest mid-game. All in all, he's the LATTER medic than Elise, which fits the 'mid-game healer'
  • Bonus points: Most of these characters are of nobility. Then yes, Forrest qualifies because he's Leo's son.

If anything, Elise is pretty much Nohr's Lena character, not Maria (heck I think Felicia/Jakob fit better, though they're prepromoted, they're your first ground healer before any route splits, you'd be using them more than either Sakura or Elise!). But I just don't get why she was pegged as Maria, when there's Forrest. If Lena can have Rhys as The One Guy, I don't see why Forrest couldn't. (If anyone's referring to the age for Maria and Elise, please note that AGE HAS NO BEARING. Maribelle and Priscilla aren't exactly little girls.)

Feel free to debate!
01:24:38 PM Aug 9th 2016
Forrest is a Beautiful Priest (Looks like a girl, is constantly mistaken for a girl, has long blond hair, is of a support class, all three check out)

Elise is Maria because she is not explicitly captured, but restrained against her will, (Nohr Castle with Garon, whom she runs away from) she's also a troubadour. She joins later that Sakura (lena) in Revelations (The True Path), and she's noble (princess of Nohr).

Sakura is Lena because she joins first (in Revelations, the true path) is on foot, and is a priestess (part of the faith, in addition to being a noble)

Conquest and Birthright are both like half games, who don't give you all the archetypes. In revelations where you get almost every character, the archetypes become clearer.

The important thing about Forrest is that he's male, but has a usually female class and looks like a female. (Beautiful Priest) Everything is kinda incidental. The vast majority of the children units are either under attack or captured somehow so that doesn't make him stand out. He's nobility because he's Leo's son, which is relevant in Heirs of Fate because he has to take up his fathers legendary weapon.
06:52:42 PM Aug 9th 2016
edited by ChrisX
Well, that makes a bit sense. I thought she didn't count even in Revelations because she broke out on her own. Most Marias that were mentioned need help from others to be broken out, mostly by someone in your army. Maria, Nanna, Priscilla and Mist by your army, Clarine by Rutger and Maribelle by Ricken. On the contrary, Elise broke out on her own, whereas Forrest needed your army to be bailed out, and... yes, he does stand out in a way compared to other children: While most other children at least have fighting capabilities before being rescued (and those who don't, they stay out of the map like hiding in a village before they can start fighting)... Forrest is stripped from any weapons during his recruitment map and then you can't even convince him to give him weapons and make him start fighting back (yes, really, Leo can't even talk to him in the map).

I mean, your explanation does make sense (though it's preferable if you can explain that in edit reason), but it does open up more questions. Would appreciate it if you reply back.

And if Revelations is to be counted... well that MIGHT make both Arthur and Charlotte kind of Bord and Cord, because they're recruited in the same map (remember very long explanation that was eventually removed? I'll happily give it out if you are curious.)
07:52:51 PM Aug 10th 2016
edited by acrobox
The only thing they have going is that they're axe fighters in the same map. They don't even join together, you could recruit one and kill the other.

They don't have the stat distribution.

They don't know each other

They aren't Red Oni, Blue Oni, or Veteran and Rookie
02:29:50 AM Aug 11th 2016
edited by ChrisX
Yeah, um about that, there's also this oddity amongst the Bord and Cord entry: Boyd and Nolan
  • They don't join together either. Boyd is available on both games, Nolan only in Radiant Dawn. Boyd is in Ike's merc team, Nolan in Dawn Brigade. Yeah, this is actually an even more deviation than Arthur-Charlotte.
  • This, in addition, made them stranger to each others (as in, Boyd is from Crimea, Nolan is from Daein). Heck, even if it isn't that much, both Arthur and Charlotte at least ARE from Nohr, so they would've known each other a little more than Boyd and Nolan (but still less than the original Bord and Cord)
    • In addition, if you look at how they are recruited in Revelations, there's another link. The only way you can recruit Charlotte in that route is to have Elise, Arthur's liege, talk to her.
  • Stat distribution is one thing that Boyd and Nolan have more accurately. No contest on this. (It's just one better in STR, one better in SPD, right?)
  • Veteran - Rookie... Yes, Boyd and Nolan have that kind of dynamic even if they're on different topics (although Boyd was only Rookie in Path of Radiance, and in a sense, he's actually more Veteran to Ike in the beginning. By Radiant Dawn, I wouldn't call him or any other Greil Mercs, except the obviously younger ones like Mist and Rolf, rookies). But I just thought that the whole 'Sibling Retainer-Non Retainer' thing in Fates is another way to say this. Could be wrong about the correlation between the Vet/Rookie, but maybe this is something to investigate.
    • Actually, if you're saying 'Veteran-Rookie' dynamic, actually Haar-Jill would fit the bill better than Boyd-Nolan... but they don't count to the archetype because they're Wyvern Riders. Just saying.

So it's okay if Arthur-Charlotte didn't make it, but in compensation, maybe you want to take a closer look on Boyd-Nolan and see if they also fit. I'm fine with any answers.
09:40:51 AM Aug 15th 2016
Regarding archetypes, wouldn't Felicia/Jakob be Oifey since they are pre-promoted (though they gain EXP the same as unpromoted), have good growths, and serve the main character (even lover for their respective opposite gender).
03:19:44 PM Aug 15th 2016
edited by acrobox
The difference in my mind between Arthur-Charlotte and Boyd-Nolan is that there's a very specific thing you can point to with Boyd and Nolan as the one reason they don't fit, or the one non traditional thing going on. And then the rest of it is in line with their predecessors. Namely, they don't know each other so they don't join at the same time. But they have the personalities, and stats, so you can make a case for them.

Arthur-Charlotte, everything is non traditional. They don't know each other, they don't have the personalities, they don't have the stats. The only thing you can swing is that in Revelations they join in the same chapter.

Regarding Felicia/Jakob, they kinda do fit the Oifey. I'm not opposed to it.
11:39:29 PM Aug 18th 2016
Wait a sec, I don't get what you mean about "they don't know each other so they don't join at the same time". You mean 'If they don't know each other, they can't join at the same time, but if they know each other, they CAN join at the same time'? ... I thought the core of that one rule is "They must know each other AND (not OR) join at the same time."

This is why I thought Boyd and Nolan violated this one because they don't know each other, they don't join in the same time (false and false do not make a true), and even if they don't know each other more personally, Arthur and Charlotte has one thing in common together: They fight under the banner of Nohr. I thought that for the Tellius guys to be on their level, then either Boyd needed to be from Daein, or Nolan needed to be from Crimea (and to fit them better to the original Bord and Cord, then either Boyd in the Dawn Brigade, or Nolan in the Greil Mercs). But alas, they don't.

I probably forgot to explore this further before, but the Veteran-Rookie in Fates can also be inferred with 'is this guy serving a Royal Sibling or not?' Those who do will look like the Veterans and those who don't, 'rookies'. Of course, probably you would think it's a bull statement, and the more 'proper' Vet-Rookie is when you compare the two retainers of a royal sibling (if it's Arthur, he'd have to be compared with Effie; then there's also Saizo-Kagero, Azama-Setsuna, Laslow-Peri, etc)

Personalities, well... I would say that they could fit, but you would probably just brush it off with 'not very obvious'. But OK, I'll bite. Rather than saying how much they fit to the archetype, just say how much they fit to the trope Red Oni, Blue Oni:
  • First, Arthur. On the outside, he's a bombastic person fighting for justice. But on the inside, he's very down to earth and genuinely compassionate. So on the outside, he might look like he's the Red Oni, but deep down he's Blue Oni.
  • Second, Charlotte. She also has a double-facet in her personality. On the outside, she's a sweetie and 'fragile cutie'. But on the inside... she's crude and foul-mouthed and more prone to anger outburst. So on the outside, she's attempting to be the Blue Oni, while on the inside, she's a complete Red Oni.
    • Now put both of them together.... so on the outside, they ARE Red Oni, Blue Oni, but on the inside, they're just switching colors.

Now you can make your case. Try to point out why they don't fit... and beyond that, how it should fit. You can use the original Bord and Cord for reference.

Like I said, the only thing they don't fit is the stats. But maybe that's just me, I know you have differing opinion, so I'd like to hear yours.
04:22:50 PM Aug 20th 2016
"they don't know each other so they don't join at the same time". You mean 'If they don't know each other, they can't join at the same time, but if they know each other, they CAN join at the same time'? ... I thought the core of that one rule is "They must know each other AND (not OR) join at the same time."

Sorry if i was unclear. I'm just saying that if they don't know each other than it follows that they don't join at the same time. I don't think there's a hard rule on this though.

Dorcas for instance joins in Lyn's mode in Blazing Sword, and essentially stays throughout because he rejoins in the first chapter of Eliwood mode alongside Bartre. But he shows up solo as part of a different army.

Anyway we're in agreement about Boyd and Nolan on this one. The don't know each other, and they don't join at the same time. Those points are their major subversion.

With Arthur-Charlotte they don't know each other, and they join in the same chapter but not under the same circumstances. So they subvert this too, even if they're a little bit closer.

Just because they're from the same country here I personally don't feel is too compelling. There are only 2 countries in Fates (technically 3 but no one really identifies with Valla) which makes it pretty much the most limited in the entire series as far as where people could even possibly be from.

You could make a similarly dubious argument to say that Boyd and Nolan are "rivals" in the context of the ragtag Crimean Greil Mercenaries vs the ragtag Daein Dawn Brigade. They both have one big axe fighter, just as they both have a myrmidon (Mia vs Edward) a Beorc and Branded duo (Ike-Soren vs. Micaiah-Sothe) or other vague similarities you can draw between them.

Of course, probably you would think it's a bull statement, and the more 'proper' Vet-Rookie is when you compare the two retainers of a royal sibling

Your words not mine. Implying veteran status from the serving of a retainer holds no water. There are plenty of vets that do and vets that don't. That's prestige, not experience. In their supports Charlotte is a better fighter than Arthur. He comments about how she keeps saving him from enemies.

Rather than saying how much they fit to the archetype, just say how much they fit to the trope Red Oni, Blue Oni:

I think you're misunderstanding Red Oni, Blue Oni here. There's nothing that says that Red Oni's like Arthur aren't compassionate or down to earth. They are extroverted- 'bombastic.' You can be super extroverted, and super compassionate. You can be super bombastic about how compassionate you are.

Further Charlotte is aggressively flirtatious. Her sweetie facade goes out of her way to make herself visible, and the center of attention. She's flaunting, not keeping to herself. Then her true face is aggressively crude. So she changes from one type of Red, to another type of Red.

And finally their support conversation is not Red Oni Blue Oni at all. Read it and judge for yourself. The dynamic is one person is a liar, and the other is super trusting and gullible. Truth and lies has nothing to do with Red vs Blue. That's more Black vs White. And that's pretty compelling proof because it actually shows you what their dynamic is, so you don't need an abstract what it might be based on their personalities.

Arthur's bombast would need to be countered by stoicism. Charlottes flaunting would have to be countered by modesty. One would have to be loud while the other is quiet. Two different kinds of loud is just two different kinds of loud.

01:02:07 AM Aug 22nd 2016
Like I said, if I'm proven wrong with Arthur and Charlotte, I'm fine with them not being included. You presented your case well, so I'm in agreement on not re-adding that. (I had thought as long as their personality contrasted, it's fine, it didn't have to be a Red Oni, Blue Oni kind of contrast)

But that'll leave Boyd and Nolan being the oddball there and there's something that doesn't sit well in me. Maybe if there is another pair of Bord and Cord in a future game that has similar dynamic with both of them, then maybe they could officially put into the archetype...

Because if it's what you said "they don't know each other then it follows that they don't join at the same time."... then that would apply to the majority of Axe users, including Arthur and Charlotte (or just pick anyone else if their game has two axe users. Garcia and Dozla from Sacred Stones came to mind.) That was like 'looking for people who do not fit the archetype' and it actually damaged the credibility of Boyd and Nolan... That's why that statement, along with how it's confusing to pin down which one is the veteran and which one is the rookie is why I think maybe we shouldn't force Boyd and Nolan into that... That's just me, though. You think?
09:33:59 PM Aug 24th 2016
well the way i think about it is this. You can look for anyone to be part of an archetype, and then see how many of the beats they hit. and if someone else hits those more closely.

You could start on Garcia and Dozla. And say hey he's cool, he's hot. They both use axes. They could be potential candidates. And then you look at their relationships. Well they don't join at the same time, one is early game, the other is more mid to late game. And further Dozla is part of a trio with a thief and a troubador. Garcia is part of a duo with another axe user. So now Dozla's out, but look at Garcia and Ross. Axes, cool and hot, personal relationship, veteran rookie, stats check out. This is a classic Bord and Cord. Its a new take because they're father and son, instead of friends. And they aren't in service to an Ogma or another person. But otherwise they hit a lot of the beats unamiguously.

Same thing with like Forrest and Elise. Forrest hits some of the beats for Maria, but Elise hits more of them, so you give it to Elise. Forrest also hits almost all of the beats for Beautiful Priest, so you slot him there.

So then when you get to Boyd and Largo for instance. Axe users. But they're both two different kinds of hot, so they fail. They don't know each other. They don't have the stats. One is early game, the other is late game. Boyd and Largo fail on almost everything except that they both use axes. And that's not notable.

Boyd and Nolan. Axe users. Hot and cool. Red flag because they don't know each other. But of their respective campaigns, they're both early game. They have the stats. Of their respective campaigns Boyd is a Rookie in the Mercenaries (he only has seniority over Ike) Nolan is a veteran of the Brigade (he founded the group). In a lot of ways they're kind of like Ross and Garcia if they weren't related. And since not being related is the major sin here, at least in my book I give it a pass.

Arthur and Charlotte. Axe users. Points off for two different kinds of hot. Red flag for don't know each other. In the true campaign (revelations) they do join at the same time. Points off again because they don't have the stats. So really here, they're just two people of the same class that join in the same chapter. But that could happen with any class if they don't fit any of the other beats, don't have the stats.


As I see it Boyd and Nolan are just a steps away from being like Ross and Garcia. So its clear theyre rooted in Bord and Cord.

Forrest is only maybe 2 steps away from being like a Maria which might be fine, but Elise is only 1 step so the root is stronger for her. Especially when he's 1 step away from a traditional Beautiful Priest.

Arthur-Charlotte are like 4 steps away from any previous Bord and Cord. So that feels a little far to me, unless we get another pair that's similar to them.
02:21:21 PM Dec 21st 2015
Its best not to include how classes do Tier-wise in each game. Its to debatable of a subject, and belongs in YMMV.

Exceptions may include times where a class is clearly improved to be playable, like Soldiers in Thracia 776 to Path of Radiance.
08:23:35 PM Oct 7th 2015
Should we rename the Shaman to just Dark Mage because Shaman are only named in the GBA games where every other game like Archanea, Jugdral, Awakening, and Fates are being called Dark Mage and seems to be sticking to it.
07:13:04 PM Apr 9th 2013
I noticed we generally used the English version of classes first, such as Cavalier/Social Knight, Myrmidon/Swordfighter, so on and so forth.

As such, should it be Wyvern Rider/Dragon Knight?
06:43:14 PM Oct 29th 2012

  • Adult Child: As an adult, she still apparently shows shades of this.

Adult Child has been renamed to One of the Kids. In order for this to be an example of the trope, the character's childishness has to be from or demonstrated by interacting with children. This example can be added back with context relevant to the trope if it fits.
11:42:29 AM Oct 13th 2012
Which FE 9 tutorial is Anna supposed to appear in as a peg knight? I just thumbed through those and there's a generic peg knight that shows up occasionally, but it's not named "Anna" on the map.
12:13:40 AM Mar 7th 2011
edited by TheSerpentineGargoyle
Honestly, since at least some of the games have their own Character Pages, this entire page should probably be recycled into those pages. Good luck to the troper with the patience to actually undertake that, though.
08:52:30 PM Mar 28th 2010
Sonica: Should we put each game/inter-timelines/something in folders? Like Marth's under one folder, Genealogy/Thracia under one, and so forth? If we're not splitting each game to have their own page, I figure folders would make it easy to scroll down. Why? The page's BIG and LONG.
12:07:23 PM Apr 27th 2010
Alright, I just arranged them into folders. That should make it easier to look for the specific game.
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