Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

May have to do without an image. Let's focus on the header first, and then the quote.

I mean its actually one of the tamer pics from the movies I could find. Are you sure its too graphic ?

edited 22nd Jun '18 11:10:48 AM by miraculous

Actually, i do have this. This part exemplifies how much of a bastard The Stalker is.

Ake

I will give Ake a to.

This one. Hmm, you know what, that just might work. So know we got a possible image and quote; any idea for a header?

BTW, a reminder, the Visual Novels stuff gets swapped tomorrow.

By the way for Kamen Rider could you add this line to the end of the caption

Well some are genuine monsters, more often than not there all too human.

Before I add that, are most of the franchise Monsters in fact human? I know a fair amount are, but I wanna know whether to use "more often than not" or just "all too often",

To Ake

Oh yeah. Here are some examples from the main page:

• One of Kamen Rider's central tropes is the Phlebotinum Rebel; the man who has became monstrous against his will and uses his new power for good. As a result, they're regularly contrasted with humans who are not monstrous yet are more evil then the actual monsters. The Big Bad of each season is often an irredeemable human who has made himself monstrous in pursuit of his goal.
  • While Mirror Monsters serve as the standard Monster of the Week in Kamen Rider Ryuki, all of the major antagonists are other Kamen Riders, who are also human. This is handily pointed out when Takeshi Asakura/Kamen Rider Ouja is called a monster by Ren Akiyama/Kamen Rider Knight, using the same terminology used to describe the Mirror Monsters. And the ultimate Big Bad was a human who didn't care how much death and destruction he wreaked so long as he could save his sister.
  • In both Kamen Rider Double and Kamen Rider Fourze, all the monsters are humans who have been transformed. Some didn't know what they were getting into, or they meant well before their power corrupted them; but others were perfectly willing to throw away their humanity for power. Both series' Big Bads were the ones who created the Transformation Trinkets, humans in full control of their minds and who were willing to corrupt innocents and ultimately destroy entire populations if it meant their goals were met.
  • In Kamen Rider OOO, the Big Bad Ensemble of Greeed (not a typo) were created hundreds of years ago by an ambitious human king in a bid for world domination. While the Greeed were willing to screw everyone else over to fill their desires, the final villain is Dr. Maki, a nihilist who turned himself into a Greeed in order to end everything. Meanwhile, the Greeed themselves suffer from the need to be 'complete,' made impossible by their creator (ten 'core medals' make up their selves; they wouldn't come to life until given need through the removal of one of those medals. Therefore, they seek what they think will fulfill them, ever more ravenously as it proves to never be enough. They're Tragic Monsters acting out their nature. The bad humans who are the authors of all the major problems have no excuse.)
  • Kamen Rider Wizard: Wiseman turned himself into a Phantom in order to give himself magic powers to revive his dead daughter, and then kicked off the plot by committing mass human sacrifice in an occult ritual. And when that didn't work, he manipulated both Wizard and the Phantoms created by the ritual in order to set up an even bigger mass sacrifice. Another example is Sora the Gremlin Phantom, the only victim to survive the ritual instead of die and be replaced by their Phantom. He turns out to have been a figurative monster way before becoming a literal one, being a sociopathic serial killer. His transformation didn't affect his personality in the slightest. In short, most Phantoms just act out their nature, trying to hatch other Phantoms from the human hosts in which they incubate. What they do is cruel, but they're born seeing humans about the same way a bird sees an eggshell. The most genuinely evil Phantoms were so bad because they retained their human selves.
  • In Kamen Rider Gaim's conflict, the world is facing being overrun by invasive species, but most of the problems come from human antagonists trying to take advantage of the situation. In a twist, the one that becomes a monster and acts as the final boss is an Anti-Villain; not truly evil but misguided in his methods.
  • Kamen Rider Drive: The enemies are Roidmudes, artificial life forms trying to supplant humanity. The real monster turns out to be their creator, Professor Banno, a Mad Scientist with a god complex who not only deliberately corrupted his creations to be evil, but his abuse of them is what convinced them that humans were evil and deserve to be overthrown. And of course, creating the monsters was just a step to becoming one himself.
  • Played with in Kamen Rider Ghost: The Ganma monsters were originally presented as demonic spirits, but it was later discovered that they were humans (or Human Aliens) making use of soul-manipulating technology, thereby playing the trope straight.
  • Kamen Rider Ex-Aid features computer viruses called "Bugsters" that manifest in the real world as video game bosses. They're not good, but they at least have Freudian Excuses for their behavior: As video game enemies, most of them are programmed to want to destroy their opponents; and they resent how their purpose is to be defeated by game players. The very first show of real emotion from major villain Parad is when his confident persona as a player who enjoys 'playing the game' with his worthy Rider opponents slips and we get near-tearful rage about how his kind were created to suffer and die at human hands over and over and over. There's no such excuse for the human enemies:
    • Kuroto Dan, the game dev who first discovered the virus, thinks himself a god because he can program whatever he wants into a game, and the Bugsters mean that he can potentially control the real world the same way. Kuroto is also really petty, going out of his way to deliver Disproportionate Retribution on anyone who angers him for the smallest reasons. He eventually does get his own Freudian Excuse and a Pet the Dog moment, but that doesn't do much to tone down his narcissism; his fighting alongside the heroes after that point is more of an Enemy Mine than anything else.
    • Masamune Dan, Kuroto's father. A Corrupt Corporate Executive who considers everything connected to his corporation as company property, including the Bugsters, Kuroto and all his accomplishments, and even the lives of the people who play his company's games. Anyone who plays The Most Dangerous Video Game and loses has their life at his mercy... all for the apparent purpose of selling more games, as loved ones will buy the game and try to play it themselves to have a chance of rescuing the hostages.
  • Kamen Rider Amazons runs on Gray-and-Gray Morality with even the Monsters of the Week being primarily Tragic Monsters who would rather live normal lives than eat people if it wasn't literally hardwired into their existence to do so, no matter how much they don't want to. However, the single most vile character in the series is a perfectly normal human, Takaaki Tenjo, the head of Nozama Pharmacy. Not only does he intentionally endanger countless lives by covering up the Amazons' existence solely to keep the Amazon Cells the Pharmacy's property, he released them to begin with solely to create a Social Darwinist manmade ecosystem of humans killing Amazons or being killed by them, resulting in untold numbers of deaths and every bad thing in the entire series. Despite being more or less physically harmless due to being an Evil Cripple, Tenjo comes off as more of a monster than the Amazons.

edited 22nd Jun '18 2:01:56 PM by miraculous

Hmm, I'll just go with "all too often".

Constrast with Shin Megami Tensei where almost all the characters are Human, with only two entries being demons (The Three Archangels, who count as a case of a trio being basically a single character, and Belberith).

Funnyly enough the Big Bad of the current show (Kamen Rider Build) : blood stalk is a subversion of this idea. He's an alien who destroys planets and while he tries to say that humans are monsters and prone to war, its total hot air as its clear he's just doing this For the Evulz.

I actually think SMT and Kamen Rider both play Humans Are the Real Monsters in an interseting way.

edited 22nd Jun '18 2:26:18 PM by miraculous

Let's not forget Faiz. All monsters, the Orphnochs, were once human beings. Smart Brain, a Nebulous Evil Organization commanded by Orphnochs routinely forces newly created Orphnochs to work for them, some refuse to do their bidding, but the majority is completely okay with doing Smart Brain's dirty work, like their worst Psycho for Hire, Kitazaki, who is more interested in killing humans than following orders.

edited 22nd Jun '18 2:56:05 PM by TheMadCr0w

Speaking about Humans Are Real Monsters, all Stephen King's Monsters, expect for two, are humans.

Only 2?

He's got 14 monsters; Flagg is who knows; Tak and Atropos aren't human, Pennywise DEFINITELY isn't; Barlow's a vampire. That's 9-5.

Really? I mean the page lists IT, Atropos, Tak, Leland Gaunt, Kurt Barlow and Randal Flagg. That's six, and their is only fourteen monsters on the page.

edited 22nd Jun '18 3:13:50 PM by MGD107

Oh yeah that as well.

If anyone's curious though from the above list, no one counts in Kamen Rider Ghost (only example not to have a cm entry) as well the gamma royal family can be pretty bad, they also genunly care about each other.

Edit: Hegel what are you talking about several entries there like Atropos, Tak, Barlow, Pennywise and maybe leland and Flagg are defiantly not human.

edited 22nd Jun '18 3:15:10 PM by miraculous

Ah, I forgot Gaunt.

Here's Rachel's writeup...

• American Psycho 2: All American Girl: The woman calling herself "Rachel Newman" is an ambitious psychopath who, after a run-in with Serial Killer Patrick Bateman in her youth, becomes fascinated with the criminal mind. Aiming to become a world-renowned FBI profiler, she slowly reveals that she sees anyone that gets in the way of her mission as completely expendable. Killing the real Rachel Newman and stealing her identity, "Rachel" murders a college administrator for denying her application to a prestigious teacher's assistant position, microwaving her cat and beating the woman to death in her own home. After systematically eliminating her rivals in the race to achieve the position, Rachel pushes her professor out a window when he denies her the position, murders a janitor who witnessed this crime, and stabs a security guard to death for getting in her way. Faking her death, Rachel's spree ends with her killing another woman, stealing her identity to get into the FBI with no repercussions for her actions whatsoever. Despite her claims that she is doing what is right, in her words "killing the few to save the many", Rachel proves just as depraved as the killers she seeks to catch, seeing murder as the ideal way to get what she wants; validation for her massive ego.

By the way, no one from Hotel Artemis comes close to counting. Every major character is a villain of some sort, and no one really stands out against each other as a result. The alleged Big Bad, The Dreaded gangster known as "the Wolf King", has no real redeeming factors, but he doesn't really get a chance to do anything of note before being unceremoniously offed. So, yeah, no keepers.

Just finished Record of Grancrest War... Please PM either me or Lighty if you want to know who counts or not

Since nobody answered my question about the potential candidate I had in mind, I'm just going to EP her and let the votes decided.

One of the features of the latest Hitman game are the Elusive Targets: Special NP Cs who appear for a limited amount of time and can only be killed once. If you fail the mission you can’t replay it. It’s one of these elusive targets we are talking about today.

Who's the candidate?

Etta Davis aka the Angel of Death, a sweet little old lady and defiantly not a ruthless serial killer responsible for countless deaths.

What has she done?

Before her retirement, Etta David was working as a nurse in various British retirement homes and hospitals. The high mortality rate of such places allowed her to murder people unnoticed for decades. Recently, however, the death of a former member of the parliament, caused a police investigation. Despite a lack of evidences Etta decided to travel abroad, waiting for the heat to cool down as well as to expand her hunting grounds. And the profile indicates that time between her killings is getting shorter and shorter...

Not wanting her to get away, someone has hired the ICA to kill Etta Davis. When they track her down in Marrakesh she already has claimed another victim: The old headmaster of a local school who had invited her to his home. The headmaster himself has disappeared without a trace but a crowbar lying next to a pool of blood as well as a blood-soaked mob leave no doubt about his fate.

If 47 isn’t fast enough, a group of soldiers will enter the home looking for the headmaster. Etta then act like she’s worried about her friend and her own safety, tricking the soldiers into escorting her while she goes on a shopping trip at the local market. She also plans to make the leader of the soldiers her next victim, innocently asking him if he likes tea (poison is one of her preferred killing methods).

At this point nothing else happens and she will just continue to wander around the market until the player either succeeds or fails.

What’s the heinous standard of the Hitman franchise?

Currently she’s the only confirmed serial killer in the franchise. She’s also just an old lady without any notable resources.

The first problem is the vague body count. According to the briefing she may have killed around 50 people. While that's quite impressive it's not confirmed whether or not she really did kill that many people. Some of them may in fact have died of natural causes.

Then there's the fact that Agent 47, the player character, is a Hitman who also has killed an impressive number of targets. While 47 has people he cares about and goes to great lengths to protect them, he also a coldblooded killer who's willing to kill anyone as long he's paid to do so. It’s just very convenient that most of the targets in the games are Asshole Victims.

Are there any mitigating qualities?

No. She acting all sweet and kind, but beneath that facade lurks a serial killer.

My Personal Verdict

Really unsure about this one. Why do you guys think?

Etta. It sounds like most of her crimes are offscreen and I don't think she reaches the series' heinous standard.

edited 22nd Jun '18 5:45:15 PM by TommyFresh