Needs Help: Seasonal Rot

And Dork Age for that matter. Classified as "Needs Help" because it is actually a combination of Unclear Description, Misused, and Complaining all at once. (And maybe Duplicate Trope, if the two tropes are determined to be that similar.)

Seasonal Rot and Dork Age are two very similar tropes (to the point where they may be similar enough to be redundant in some areas) that have attracted a lot of misuse and complaining over the years.

As a wick check shows, the first trope, Seasonal Rot, is supposed to be about a single installment in a series that is believed to be of lower quality than other installments per the description. The laconic, however, states that it is simply a "dip in quality in a long-running series." The wick check shows that the examples often get confused between these two definitions as well, along with the trope attracting complaining.

The second trope, Dork Age, concerns a very similar concept to Seasonal Rot's laconic, a period of time containing a dip in quality in a long-running franchise rather than series. The problem is, often times examples do not have a definitive beginning or end, as the wick check shows, along with also attracting complaining.

The definitions of both this trope and Seasonal Rot have been noted as being very unclear, since it is hard to tell whether the examples cited as misuse are actually misuse, due to the conflicting definitions in the descriptions. They also seem to inherently invite complaining and contention by concerning a concept that is inherently contentious and hard to define, as any two fans can often have a different opinion on a supposed "Dork Age" or "Seasonal Rot" period, and any time period could be defined as "Seasonal Rot" or a "Dork Age", which makes it hard to objectively define.

Oh, and here's what Tropes Needing TRS had to say about Seasonal Rot:

What should be done with the tropes? Well first off, I initially considered asking for a time limit on Dork Age or Seasonal Rot examples, but then I realized there is no way of definitively telling if a series is out of its "Dork Age" or "Seasonal Rot" since it is based entirely on opinion. A more extreme choice could be making Seasonal Rot or Dork Age (or a new trope made from combining the two into one) Definition-Only Pages, for being too contentious and opinion-based to make a non-biased judgement. That option might be too extreme, though, and I have few ideas beyond those, however. What should we do?

EDIT: Wick check for Sequelitis here.

Edited by themayorofsimpleton on Aug 3rd 2021 at 7:19:22 AM

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Dork Age age should be about a dip in popularity and/or financial success, not quality. The quality should be irrelevant to Dork Age. Merging Seasonal Rot and Sequelitis might work because they're very similar. In any case, I'm against combining Dork Age and Seasonal Rot because it might cause more problems. Side note: I've seen Sequelitis be used about a single installment be worst than the rest instead of the series progressively getting worse with each installment.

Bannered.

Should we also discuss Sequelitis here then? And should I banner that as well?

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Yes and yes. I'd wait for feedback from others before doing any of those things though.

We might need a wick-check done on Sequelitis first, but otherwise I'm game.

I like your suggestion of making Dork Age about reception rather than objective quality, though sometimes it might be hard to separate the two.

Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness

Yeah as WarJay said the suggestion about making Dork Age be about reception is actually a really good idea.

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Here's how I think it should work:

• Seasonal Rot: An installment that isn't as good as the others
• Sequelitis: A work progressively gets worse with each installment
• Dork Age: A period of time when a work isn't as popular as it was before or after (i.e., quality is irrelevant, like what others suggested).

It could be hard to distinguish between these, but these are separate enough ideas that merging them probably wouldn't accomplish much.

Btw, both tropes have overlapping references for 114 pages.

Edited by eroock on Aug 2nd 2021 at 7:19:59 AM

I've seen Seasonal Rot being used as a stand-in for Jumped the Shark as well, as in, "This series starts out as good, but turns bad in later seasons."

I agree with this.

Yeah, that's what I thought it was.

"It's just a show; I should really just relax"

Same, actually. The name of Seasonal Rot does bring something starting out "fresh" and going bad.

Made some edits to this post after looking over some of the pages more thoroughly.

Dork Age definitely needs help, but it might need cleanup more than redefining.

Dork Age has a fairly specific, objective criteria (about a subjective topic). The full description (and redirecting sentence on Seasonal Rot) explains that it's not about the quality of a franchise at any point in general, but a period when a series specifically experiments with a major status quo change that negatively affects the reception or success of the series enough to eventually revert (often to the point of Canon Discontinuity). I think that's a fairly solid and unique basis for the page.

Why a significant number of the on-page examples seem to be some variant of "some people didn't like this season or spin-off" is beyond me. Did the definition get changed at some point?

Even some of the proper examples have issues. The first thing that came to mind for me was Superman Blue. Reinventing the classic superhero as an Energy Being with completely different powers and then duplicating him. It's a major status quo change, and one it's not hard to understand didn't go over well and was quickly reverted. It's the first example and image on the DC Comics Dork Age page, but it goes off on a lot of tangents in the bullet points, and spends more time giving its opinion on the situation than actually explaining it.

Seasonal Rot is a bit more confusing. Once you rot, un-rotting isn't really a thing. As a one-off dip in quality, it's a non-indicative name. If used in the "everything eventually rots given enough time" sense, then it seems things like Sequelitis, Jumping the Shark, or even Later-Installment Weirdness already kind of cover the concept.

Edited by Jokubas on Aug 3rd 2021 at 1:59:44 AM

(x7, referring to WoodKnapp's post) I like that criteria. That might work.

Since a wick check might be needed for Sequelitis, one can be started here —> Sequelitis Wick Check

EDIT: Started. 50 wicks need checking.

Edited by themayorofsimpleton on Aug 3rd 2021 at 8:38:05 AM

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Seasonal Rot suggests continuation more to me.

"Listen up, Marina, because this is SUPER important. Whatever you do, don't eat th“ “DON'T EAT WHAT?! Your text box ran out of space!”

Alright, working on the wick check. 10 wicks in and only one correctly used, non-complaining example. This isn't looking good.

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20 wicks in and only 2 correct, non-complaining examples. Sequelitis is suffering more than I thought.

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What about Franchise Zombie?

"Listen up, Marina, because this is SUPER important. Whatever you do, don't eat th“ “DON'T EAT WHAT?! Your text box ran out of space!”

The page, like most of its ilk, is an easy magnet for Complaining About Shows You Dont Like and Creator Bashing.

Edited by Lionheart0 on Aug 3rd 2021 at 9:49:27 AM

I think Franchise Zombie is "franchise continues despite little to no input from the original creator." It's basically Outlived Its Creator without the creator's death.

Franchise Zombie is for a work that goes on for longer than the creator intended; quality and reception should both be irrelevant.

Hopefully not. I haven't seen too many problems with it, but if there are any, we can deal with them later.

Edited by WoodKnapp94 on Aug 3rd 2021 at 10:17:45 AM

Oh man, do we have to do a Franchise Zombie wick check too?

(It would also be 50 wicks for the record).

Edited by themayorofsimpleton on Aug 3rd 2021 at 10:17:28 AM

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I don't think so. The examples I've seen are written neutrally with no complaining. It helps that it's Trivia instead of YMMV.

Ah good, one extra wick check is enough.

Edited by themayorofsimpleton on Aug 3rd 2021 at 10:32:27 AM

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Actually Jokubas makes an interesting point. Dork Age currently is about the status quo specifically creating change, rather than the quality simply going down. It attracts misuse for any drop in quality though.

What does everyone else think about their points?

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