Misused (Alt Names Crowner 28th Mar 2015): I Cant Use These Things Together

It's basically being either confused for I Can't Reach It or used as being unable to combine items, which is understandable given the nonindicative name.

For reference, the difference between the two (which are completely unrelated despite the similar names):

• I Can't Use These Things Together is when characters talk to themselves in a jarringly unrealistic manner (Such as "Hm, the door seems to be locked," or "I'd better talk to the Mayor to see if he has any additional clues").
• I Can't Reach It is when characters can't do something that would seem like a totally reasonable action, like step over the Insurmountable Waist-Height Fence.

Instances of misuse that I see so far:

• The description says "If The Dev Team Thinks of Everything, expect this trope to be averted." Which makes no sense unless the trope is being misinterpreted as I Can't Reach It, which would absolutely be averted if the dev team thinks of everything.
• It is misused as being unable to combine items on Game FAQS.
• It appears to be misused on Adventure Game, but the reference is not very descriptive of what it's getting at.
• Broken Bridge misuses them both as Stock Phrases.
• Christian Humber Reloaded misuses it as not being able to combine items.

The above is just from looking at the first ten items on the Related tab plus Game FAQS (which is where I noticed the problem) and the trope page itself. (And over half of what's left of the ten items I looked at are pure ZCE, so for all I know, they could be misuse as well.)

I think this trope desperately needs a new name. Related/Wick check for convenience. There are 97 wicks, which isn't something to scoff at, but hardly impossible to clean either. 234 inbounds.

edited 7th Jan '15 9:43:33 AM by SolipSchism

Whew, this is a bad name. I thought it referred to people not being able to use two things together.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

So this trope is like That Makes Me Feel Angry, only more general?

MAX POWER KILL JEEEEEEEEWWWWW

I'd call it a sister trope, maybe. This trope is when a video game conveys needed information to the player by having the PC say it out loud, even if it would be a ridiculous thing to actually say.

My thought after reading the initial post was that if even the description is being confused by the name, there's definitely a problem. But I took a cursory look and was surprised not to find any misuse on the page itself (except that one errant line in the description). I'd like to see a more formal wick check before voting to rename.

This appears in non-interactive fiction as well. It's actually mentioned in the description of As You Know, which is about two characters telling each other things they already know, for the benefit of the audience:

"This may also happen with solitary characters (in thought rather than in speech), who, apparently, have such bad memory problems that they have to constantly remind themselves what they're doing right now and what happened in the near past."

So perhaps this is really just a The Same But More Specific case of As You Know? Or is it a sister trope?

In any case, I don't think this trope should be limited to computer games.

All points made so far are valid, I think. I agree that checking the top ten pages on the related search is not grounds to conclude misuse, but I really can't commit to doing a more thorough check now that the site barely works for me.

Sorry for the sudden 180, but I'm going to have to either pawn this off on whoever is interested or just let it sit.

So yeah, this trope is one of those that violates Show, Don't Tell.

MAX POWER KILL JEEEEEEEEWWWWW

Different, actually.

That is specifically about character providing mental recaps (this is fairly frequent in comic strips, due to how "chopped-up" their storylines are, so the first panel of each strip has a character thinking e.g. "Well, here I am, at the old factory where I arrived for my epic fight with my sworn enemy.")

I Can't Use These Things Together is about characters saying things out loud which nobody in their right mind would actually say out loud. (This actually seems more similar to Thinking Out Loud.)

I Can't Reach It could really use a name change, by the way.

edited 13th Jan '15 12:45:29 AM by Korodzik

Yes, they are different, but they are also similar. In both cases, a character says or thinks things that no normal person would in that situation. The difference is due to differences in the medium and the medium-audience interaction.

Perhaps there's a missing supertrope here, with subtropes for 1) Two characters reminding each other of things for the benefit of the audience (As You Know) 2) A single character having internal monologue about obvious things to remind or enlighten the audience. 3) A game using a character's internal monologue (even if it's spoken out loud, no NPC ever seems to react to it, so it's functionally internal monologue) as a sort of status or error message (I Can't Use These Things Together).

To me, these three instance are sufficiently similar to at least be subtropes with a common supertrope, but possibly even instances of the same trope.

edited 13th Jan '15 2:21:22 AM by GnomeTitan

To nitpick, the page contains numerous examples where NPCs do in fact react to I Can't Use These Things Together speech. It's almost always played for laughs.

Back to more important issues, I can't see rolling I Can't Use These Things Together in with As You Know. Note that As You Know has a healthy Video Game section, but none of the examples overlap with I Can't Use These Things Together, so the troper community seeems to have a clear sense of the difference even if I'm not doing a great job enunciating it.

There should certainly be a supertrope of "characters saying things the writer wants the audience to hear, even if nobody would ever actually say that", which would cover I Can't Use These Things Together, As You Know, That Makes Me Feel Angry, and probably some other tropes listed on Exposition.

edited 13th Jan '15 4:28:24 AM by tbarrie

OK, I think you're right. Adding a supertrope won't solve any misuse, though, if indeed that is a problem.

I wouldn't say it's "almost always played for laughs". I've never seen it played for laughs myself, yet I've seen it played straight pretty often. I agree with the rest of your post, though.

The majority of the misuse of ICUTTT was in wicks, not necessarily on the page itself.

edited 13th Jan '15 7:42:40 AM by SolipSchism

I'll try to find time to do a more thorough wick check this week.

Appreciate it—sorry I can't be more active on this, considering that I brought it up in the first place. The forums are pretty much perfectly functional for me though, so I will remain active here.

If you wanted to rename it, would something like "I Can't Do That, Dave" work?

By the way, there's around nine ZC Es in total, if I've counted correctly.

(Annoyed grunt)

On the entire list of wicks? I find that hard to believe. Unless you mean on the page itself.

I doubt renaming it to a different stock phrase would fly. In any case, I think the fact that it's a stock phrase is the problem in the first place.

Personally, I would rename I Can't Reach It to something like Can't Perform Basic Tasks, and I Can't Use These Things Together to something like I Know About Timed Hits (though admittedly that one is not great either).

I'd also remove the Pot Hole on I Can't Use These Things Together that says "That doesn't seem to work." It's not indicative of what it's linking, and could be considered misuse at worst.

edited 14th Jan '15 1:35:42 PM by SolipSchism

The description suggests this is a type of Exposition, directed at the player to establish available mechanics.

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.

Yep. Or remind them of the mechanics, or draw their attention to something, like "That looks like a ladder over there," or "My health is low, I should find a safe place to rest."

Wouldn't that be He Knows About Timed Hits?

MAX POWER KILL JEEEEEEEEWWWWW

He Knows About Timed Hits is when characters talk about game mechanics as if they were In-Universe. The Trope Namer is Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars, in which Toad gives you a tutorial on timed hits, a game mechanic that makes your attacks more effective if you press a button at just the right time.

The most common example is when characters tell you to "Press A" or "Open your inventory menu", etc. It's virtually always used as some sort of tutorial where the characters in the game tell you how to play the game.

edited 14th Jan '15 2:24:00 PM by SolipSchism

Regards the nine ZC Es, those are the instances where only the trope itself is named without any explanation.

And regards a rename, how about something like Contextual Exposition? Does that make more sense?

(Annoyed grunt)

That seems like it could could cover way more than what the trope is actually about.

Wick check:

Adventure Game - Appears to be think the trope is a stock phrase

Another Code - Used correctly

Black Mirror - Zero Context Example

Brain Lord - Appears to be correct? They at least understand that the trope is about the protagonist talking

Broken Age - "Both leads do this". Another one where it seems to be correct, but is hard to tell

Broken Bridge - Might be correct, might be misusing it as a stock phrase

Broken Sword - Zero Context Example

Broken Sword - Seemingly-correct pothole

Carol Reed Mysteries - Zero Context Example

Christian Humber Reloaded - No idea what the writer thought this trope was

Combinatorial Explosion - Seems to be correct, surprisingly

Video Game/Darkstone - Might be interpreting the trope a bit broadly, but they definitely understand that it's about the protagonist talking to the player

Dark Tales - Used correctly

Video Game/Diablo - Used correctly

Dialog During Gameplay - Seems to be used correctly

Video Game/Discworld - Seems to be used correctly

Divine Divinity - Appears to think the trope is about not being able to use two things together

Don't Starve - Used correctly

Video Game/Drawn - Used correctly

Game FAQS - Clear misuse

Get a Stupid Answer - Trope name being used as a joke

Grim Fandango - Used correctly

G to I - Not relevant

Hong Kong Dub - Seemingly correct

I Can't Reach It - Hard to say. The trope description implies that it's a subtrope of this trope, but doesn't mention anything about the PC talking to the player, so I was initially going to list it as misuse. But the examples on its page do in fact seem to almost all be proper examples of I Can't Use These Things Together. So I'm not sure.

I Cant Use These Things Together - Correct

I Have No Mouth, and I Must Scream - Used correctly

Indiana Jones and His Desktop Adventures - Used correctly

Indiana Jones and the Emperor's Tomb - Seemingly used correctly

Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade - Zero Context Example

Inner Monologue - Used correctly, I think

Insurmountable Waist-High Fence - Unclear

Interactive Fiction - Another one where I'm not sure what they think the trope is, but it's not correct

I To R - Appears to be used correctly

Jolly Rover - Used correctly

JonTron - Correct, I think

Judgment Rites - Misused as being unable to use two things together

Jurassic Park: Trespasser - Used correctly

King's Quest: Mask of Eternity - Used correctly, I think

Limbo of the Lost - Misused as being unable to use two things together

Made Of Win Archive Late 2009 - Used correctly

MDK2 - Seems to think the trope is narrower than it actually is

Moon Logic Puzzle - Used correctly

Most Annoying Sound - Incorrect pothole

Nancy Drew - Zero Context Example

Pick Up The Phone Booth And Aisle - Another case where I can't determine what the writer thought this trope was

Player And Protagonist Interaction - Seems correct.

Poker Night 2 - An incorrect pothole, followed by a possibly correct usage

Video Game/Primal - Zero Context Example

Video Game/Primordia - Appears correct

That's fifty, I think. I'll post the actual counts shortly.

edited 15th Jan '15 1:49:26 PM by tbarrie

I'll say this: I figured out the meaning of the trope from the name. So... there's that.

Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.

Are you sure you never saw it previously? You just saw "I Can't Use These Things Together" and immediately thought "characters expositing to themselves in extremely odd ways"?