NATTER ALERT!

I suggest re-writing it entirely to make it less complainy-sounding, then.

Alright, this is on Sesame Street:

We of course start off with the BIGGEST tear jerker in Sesame Street history: the death of Mr. Hooper.

• On December 7, 1982, Will Lee, known for his 13 years as kindly shopkeeper Mr. Hooper, died of a heart attack at the age of 74. There were initially plans to recast him and act like nothing happened. But the producers soon decided that the best thing to do would be to tackle Lee's passing head on by killing off the character too, and teach children that death is a part of life, with Big Bird acting as the children's surrogate. Here's the clip.
  • At first, Big Bird doesn't understand when Maria tells him Mr. Hooper died. He says he'll give his drawing when Mr. Hooper comes back. Susan looks around, aghast and guilty, before delivering the Wham Line: "Big Bird, Mr. Hooper's not coming back." Cue the waterworks as Big Bird starts to break down on learning when people die, they can't return. Mr. Hooper is gone forever.
  • When Big Bird says that it'll never be the same, prompting the famous line from Bob (in which you can hear the very real wavering in his voice) as the adults start sniffling: "You're right, Big Bird. It'll never be the same around here without him. But you know something? We can all be very happy that we had the chance to be with him, and to know him... and to love him a lot when he was here."
  • When Big Bird asks why it had to happen and he says, "Give me one good reason!" and you know that no one can, because there is no good reason. Gordon gives him the only possible answer, which is both realistic and so very sad: "It has to be this way... because." This is also a nod to an earlier scene where Big Bird was walking backward with his head between his legs, telling Gordon he was doing it "just because."
  • Even though she's crying, Maria can't help but smile when Big Bird gets Mr. Hooper's name wrong, for one last time. She corrects him, and the adults envelop him in a Group Hug.
  • What made this scene so realistic, touching and emotional was indeed the genuine emotion shown by the adults as they comfort Big Bird in his realization that, indeed, his beloved Mr. Hooper was never coming back. The scene – done in one take and kept intact – showed that even adults (who fully understand the concept of death) cry and feel very sad when someone close to them dies, and that it is OK to cry, sometimes together, when something sad happens.
  • Similarly, David and Mr. Handford's departures were quite sad. While they didn't die (although their actors did in 1990 and 2016 respectively), it was still sad to lose them from the show. We don't even learn where Mr. Handford went.
    • What's even more sad is that even Emilio Delgado (Luis) died in March 2022, even though his actor was let go in 2016 and he returned in the 50th Anniversary Celebration.
    • To make it more sadder, in December 2022, Bob McGrath (Bob) also died. Even though he was let go the same time as Luis and also made an appearance in the 50th anniversary celebration, his death has made his line from the show (and his emotion) harder to listen to.

While there is absolutely no denying that particular episode is a tearjerker, all this feels to be a bit... unnecessary?

Not only that, but the last two examples are meta examples, which are banned from moments pages.

At least the meta examples should be cut. I also think the remaining paragraphs should be combined into one example, though it would need to be tweaked so it's not a Wall of Text.

Found this ugly little lump at YMMV.The Lion Guard:

• Ass Pull: Scar is evil because he was bitten by a cobra?! Are you serious?!
  • In fairness, Scar was shown to always be evil and conniving. The cobra bite just removed his few inhibitions or he used it as an excuse.
    • Still a very stupid "explanation", considering a snake bite to the eye should've left him half-blind at best and dead at worst.

Easy cut with notifiers.

Cut what part, exactly? All of it? Just the bullet points?

I say cut it all since it's clearly under debate and the example is a ZCE anyway (no mention of foreshadowing or lackthereof)

At best it needs to be rewritten to make it sound more like a proper example and less like complaining (I don't think there is any Foreshadowing to that for the record).

Cut. It’s clear Scar was always evil and the bite just brought it out.

Yeah, it's already gone.

On Nintendo Entertainment System, there is this entry under Bowdlerise:

• Games with "subliminal political messages or overt political statements" were barred from release. This is likely the reason why the game Socks the Cat Rocks the Hill, where you control President Clinton's cat and fight caricatures of Republicans, never got released for the Super NES^note That and the fact that they knew that no one would pay over $60 in early 90s money for a video game where you play as President Clinton's cat.

There is a note attached to the end of the entry that reads That and the fact that they knew that no one would pay over $60 in early 90s money for a video game where you play as President Clinton's cat.. Aside from the fact that there probably would be a niche which is why this game was even mentioned, I believe this note is straight up natter and should be removed.

Not just that, but it is under the NES page, yet it says that it was never released for the Super NES, aka Super Nintendo or SNES, which is not the NES. It's akin to listing Wii U games under the Wii.

Edited by Nen_desharu on Dec 22nd 2022 at 1:30:54 PM

I'd remove it for being natter. Plus, it sounds like complaining to me and I don't think it adds much (if anything) to the entry.

Wasn't sure if I should post this entry from MisaimedFandom.Literature in this or the Complaining thread, since it has elements of both:

Idk if I brought this already but Love You and Everybody has this:

• Played straight in Xenoblade Chronicles 2 when Nia confesses her love to Rex after revealing herself as a Blade. She fully expects to be shot down, since Rex's attraction to Pyra is obvious. Rex responds with "Nia, I love you too!" causing her to be visibly shocked. He then follows it up with "I love you, and all you guys!" causing her to laugh and admit that was exactly what she'd expected him to say.
  • That said, when Rex later has a Battle in the Center of the Mind, he's confronted by an angry Nia who resents his Single-Target Sexuality for Pyra. As this is a manifestation of Rex's doubts, it's heavily implied that he actually did understand what she was saying, and was just trying not to hurt her feelings.
  • At the end of the day, the trope ends up subverted in Xenoblade Chronicles 3 as Rex did go on to marry and have children with Nia alongside Pyra and Mythra afterwards.

Any potential rewrites?

What I remember saying to that before: at the risk of sounding like a soap opera, is there actually a formal source on Rex being the father of Nia's baby? Because while I can see it in retrospect, it wasn't my original assumption upon watching the game, yet the site's treating it like established fact in that and other entries (for example the one on Ambiguously Related).

I found this example in A Few Good Men. I bring it mostly because the sub-bullets contradict each other. So I don't know if the natter should just be deleted, or the example be outright removed.

Found this on Voltes V

• Germans Love David Hasselhoff: The show has a decent old-school following in Japan, but it's virtually worshiped in the Philippines. In fact, ask any Filipino who was a seventies kid what was his/her favorite show on TV, more often than not, they will say Voltes V.
  • It was dubbed into English and first aired alongside Daimos and Mazinger Z in 1979 until they were banned by the government. Voltes V and Daimos returned quietly in the early 1990s and again in 1999 with much fanfare, hyped as its (untrue) "second coming".
  • After its 1999 revival it was dubbed into the local Filipino language, and has remained a cultural fixture ever since, famous particularly for its peripheral role in helping end the Marcos Regime - the ban often being cited as one of the straws that broke the camel's back in terms of driving people to action: Security measures against the adults were one thing, but robbing their children of joy over petty vanity? That was a bridge too far, or so the story goes, and not only helped drive the adults to the streets but made the kids aware of what kind of petty dictatorship they were living in. This article, citing multiple famous Filipino professionals of the "Voltes V generation", explains the phenomenon pretty well.
  • Because of its popularity, a live-action adaptation is currently in production by GMA Network, the station that brought the anime to the country in the first place.
  • Less so than the Filipinos, Indonesians also looked upon the series highly, being one of the few mecha anime series that hit the national television station and aired to the end, giving it nostalgia factor.

Any potential rewrites?

Also in regards to that, Most of the fandom persumed it as such since Chapter 10’s nightmare sequence implied that Rex was aware of Nia’s feeling, which is why fans immediately jumped boat of Rex marrying Nia alongside Pyra and Mythra.

Edited by Ayumi-chan on Dec 28th 2022 at 11:40:56 PM

I feel the second paragraph on that Values Dissonance entry can be combined with the first one. The third, however, violates Examples Are Not Recent and seems unneeded to me. Hence, I'd remove it.

I feel the second paragraph can be combined with the first part, though everything after "famous particularly" feels unneeded to me. The subbullet on English also reads as low-context to me so I'd hide it. I additionally feel the next one isn't necessary. I feel the last is fine by itself though (besides the indentation).

Um, Instructions a bit unclear, so can you offer a rewrite instead please?

E: Wait nvm, I’m a dumdum. I understand now. E no.2: I edited now

Edited by Ayumi-chan on Dec 30th 2022 at 6:23:32 PM

Was looking through the Neptunia character sandboxes and found this one from Characters.Hyperdimension Neptunia Victory (in the CPUs folder under Vert), pretty sure the note from "Except she wouldn't" on, which is several times as long as the example text, would count as natter:

• Sore Loser: She doesn't react kindly to her and Purple Sister being bested by the other goddesses, who even call her out for just how sore she is as a loser ^note  She claims that if it were one-on-one, she'd have won. Except that she wouldn't; if one takes the time to equip all the playable characters with identical low-tier bangles (or by taking note of the base stats that are displayed onscreen during a Level Up), Vert actually has a horrendous VIT stat (the lowest in the entire game). She might be able to dish it out (she has the second highest STR rating and a very high INT rating), but one hard hit would theoretically be sufficient to take her down. especially against someone like Blanc/White Heart who has the highest VIT rating of the entire cast..

The characters' in-game stats aren't relevant to how the trope gets used in the story and for the character, and comes off as kinda complainy. I'd just remove the note and put the "she claims if it was one-on-one" part in the main example text

Edited by Zanreo on Dec 30th 2022 at 9:56:53 PM

"She claims X, but in fact not-X" isn't natter, it's being used to show that she's speaking from a place of sore-loser-ness more than reality.

It might be far more information than is required, but it's something one person could say.

Still feels like the note could be cut down a bit, and the "She claims that if it were one-on-one, she'd have won" part moved to the main example text as this is what was actually mentioned in-game (iirc, it's been years since I played the game). Just feels like it's ranting about a Gameplay and Story Segregation thing where it's not needed

Edited by Zanreo on Dec 30th 2022 at 4:20:35 PM

I wouldn't call that natter either. On a lesser note, Understatement is Administrivia.In Universe Examples Only, so that sinkhole should go. EDIT: For the record, I agree with toning it down, though I'm not completely sure what should go in the note.

Edited by RandomTroper123 on Dec 31st 2022 at 11:34:09 AM

While I was fixing some examples in American Carnage, I stumbled upon seeing the last sentence of Evil Plan example of what appears to be Natter.

• Evil Plan: Starts out evil and gets worse. Detaining children of Illegal immigrants and tricking them into labor and an elderly center with the false promise of release. Evil, right? Then pumping them with drugs that weaken them and age them rapidly until their body turns on them and the under go a painful death. Then using said corpses as a cheap meat supply for a fast food chain. Screw evil, that’s monstrous.

Cut the last sentence?