During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Shane and the New 52 duo.
Goku Black
Even better dc rebirth was supposed to fix the continuity issues of new 52 and The dc universe as awhole. All they did was lead to confusingly having both pre new 52 and post new 52 stuff canon at the same time with no explanation. ![[lol]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/lol2v12_4863.png "[lol]"){kind=small}
Yes to Nebiros and Whale.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
BTW Lighty, okay if I do the other Survivors' Club one tomorrow (if I'm not too busy)? I hope to do 3 EP's total this week.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Marvel is so much easier: Either Earth-616, or not.
Edited by ACW on Apr 26th 2020 at 12:57:54 PM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
The Draftsman of Doom
Nebiros and Whale.
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
Edited by SkyCat32 on Apr 26th 2020 at 1:07:09 PM
Your friendly neighbourhood Spider-Man.
That's fine, ACW. Who're the others?
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Stephen Whitt from In Death (today, if I can avoid my procrastination), and from the same series Willow Mackie. I recently re-read it, and while it seems she loves her father, I think that's arguable. I'm not even sure which way I'M leaning, but IMO she's worth a discussion, and heinousness at least is no problem.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Cross-wired freak
to Shane, Nebiros, and Whale
Doing Helen valentine's expansion as well?
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
I asked Scraggle actually, and he suggested waiting until Children of Valentine.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Just a heads up, ACW, something's wrong with the formatting for the Bajorian cult leader's entry.
- Coach Harrison: Cult at "cult"
- Rahgot: Offing the Offspring at "kill their own children"
- Appelox: Our Titans Are Different at "Titans"
- Jarl Metellus: hypocrite at "hypocrite"
- Yog-Sothoth: Enemy Mine at "Teaming up with the Louds to stop Hastur", The End of the World as We Know It at "a new apocalypse of his own"
- Hastur: Smug Snake at "arrogant but weak god"
- Child murderer: The Speechless at "loses her voice",
- Lunar: Villainous Crush at "desires Melody Sails all for himself"
- Lykos: Rape Is a Special Kind of Evil at "rapes her", Humans Are the Real Monsters at "the most vile human being in the series"
- Kol: The Coup at "coup"
- Green Lady: brainwashed at "brainwashing", Villainous Breakdown at "go ballistic"
- James Marcus: Omnicidal Maniac at "his desire to destroy the entire world"
- Chilford Ripper: From Camouflage to Criminal at "former British soldier", greed at "intending to make themselves rich", He Knows Too Much at "killing an innocent bystander to cover it up"
- Bajorian cult leader: Comet of Doom at "comet"
- Dracula: Sadist at "his appetite for suffering"
- Igni: Corrupt Church at " usurped that once-peaceful religion", The Fundamentalist at "violent fanatics"
- Xerras: Our Vampires Are Different at his name, Mystical Plague at "plague", Mummy at "mummy"
And that's all I can think of, at least for right now.
One other from Justice League United: The New 52 version of Byth Rok:
Who is he?
A criminal and enemy of Hawkman and the Martian Manhunter, Byth has the power to transform his body how he wishes. Now, in Justice League: United, it turns out Byth is working alongside Lobo, hiring him to capture multiple alien beings so he can harvest their DNA and combine it into one new being: Ultra, the Multi-Alien....now, Ultra might be the strongest being in existence, potentially...or as Byth likes to call him? "Ultra: The Slayer of Worlds."
Byth subjects Ultra to abuse, gaslighting and more...now, Byth is the head of a psychotic cult which intends for universal annihilation, intending to force Ultra's transformation into a being from the 31st Century, known as Infinitus, a living sort of universe, a being that consumes and devours worlds...and the universe itself entirely. With the League closing in and the heroes within...trying to reason with Ultra as Byth manipulates him into calling down Infinity Wraiths to kill tons throughout, beginning the process to turn the boy into Infinitus. After expelling J'onn from getting through to Ultra, Byth brings him to the dimensional rift to finish his transformation.
But Byth? Intends with Infinitus...Infinitus will collapse all existence, wipe everything out, and then..he'll reshape existence with himself as its new god, in control of everything...and he promises Kara, Supergirl if she doesn't resist, he might even let her be the queen...he then uses brainwashing to turn the heroes on one another because he's evil that way.
The heroes do press byth, but Ultra's lost it....J'onn is forced to lobotomize Ultra mentally, but Byth is beaten and knocked into the black hole...except as it's revealed, it takes him 10,000 years in the past to Thanagar...where he plots to start over and try again to become god....
Mitigating Qualities?
For new 52? The cruel manipulation to Ultra, the experiments and oh, yeah, pure omnicidal mania to become the new god? Byth punches well outside his weight class. His religious sect is a front for him to become a god himself, no care for anyone or anything. Nothing else to say here.
Conclusion?
An easy keeper to new 52 Byth.
to The New 52 candidates
Goku Black
Rok
So....nothing else happens to him?
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Yes to Byth.
"The Juice is Loose."
A lot of comic villains get no real comeuppance. Byth is basically defeated and seemingly killed, but it's revealed he survived and is still plotting. Pretty standard.
Goku Black
Ah right Joker Immunity and Death Is Cheap and all that.
Edited by miraculous on Apr 26th 2020 at 10:43:07 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
I assume Lobo is his usual bastard-yet-somehow-honorable self?
Yes to the other dude.
One thing I never understood about all these Omnicidal Maniacs: Aside from the ones who are pulling a Taking You with Me or who are a Death Seeker, how the hell do they think THEY'LL survive??
Cross-wired freak
Goku Black
New 52 lobo is actually a bit different....
No, it's old school Lobo. Just don't ask. He's not a keeper, never is and never will be.
A lot of omnicidal maniacs tihnk they'll survive or don't care.
The Draftsman of Doom
Unlike Calux, this guy definitely got what he deserved (and poetically so). Been wanting to do this one for a long time.
What is the work?
Law & Order is a 1990 classic Crime Drama show that ran until 2010 for 20 seasons. Its focus is very simple: one half of the show is devoted mostly to detectives investigating a crime of some kind (more often than not, murder) and the second half involves the DA appointed ADA s handling the suspect’s trial. One of my all-time favorite shows and the candidate comes from one of my favorite episodes: "Criminal Law" from Season 16.
Who is he and what has he done?
Leland Barnes is an attorney who was extremely abusive to his wife Kelly and then eventually, charged into her work place, killed four people including her and wounded three others. Executive ADA Jack McCoy prosecuted Barnes and the three survivors testified against him. He was sentenced to death, but the death penalty in New York was ended and instead got life without parole. Barnes planned for years to get out and representing himself, also represented two of his cell mates, but killed one of them.
Barnes plans to get himself released and needs the witnesses against him to be gone. He manipulates his younger son Harlan (having the dead cell mate Anton Garfield be the go-between before he killed him), using the name Troy Hendricks, into seeking out McCoy and the survivors to get rid of them, giving him a list with four names: McCoy and the three survivors. Harlan shoots and kills one woman with the same name as one of the survivors Sylvia Rossi and then another who has the same name along with her husband. The actual Sylvia is then killed for real by Harlan. She became a victims advocate BECAUSE of what Barnes did to her and the others.
While Detectives Joe Fontana and Ed Green are able to get to McCoy and the last survivor Elaine Bowman (née Paschal) in time before Harlan can, Harlan is still able to kill another survivor Leon Whitaker and his wife though. McCoy is able to connect the victims to Barnes given their names and he and ADA Alexandra Borgia confront Barnes about what he has done. The appellate court has overturned Barnes's conviction due to ineffective council and he is all too smug and petty about acting like he has nothing to do with it and is pushing hard to be released.
Barnes is able to get Whitaker and Rossi's testimonies thrown out against him and then demands that because he is acting as his own attorney, he has the right to question Elaine. When questioning her, Barnes has her admit she closed her eyes and pushes her about not being able to see him. Feeling intimidated, Elaine recants that it was not him who committed the shooting.
Before Elaine backs out, Fontana and Green identify Harlan as the shooter (using the name of the dead boy who would have been his foster brother) thanks to Barnes's other son Robert and also thanks to a reluctant Robert, are finally able to catch Harlan. Harlan refuses to talk and even when Fontana provokes him about how his own father will leave him out to dry (which he does, blaming Harlan’s mental state), Harlan still will not budge.
Barnes ends up released, but when McCoy pushes him about getting indicted before the week’s over, Barnes angrily declares that McCoy should have been first on the list. Fate steps in though and Robert (who surrenders almost immediately) shows up with a gun and shoots Barnes three times, finally killing the son of a bitch.
Redeeming qualities? Mitigating factors?
Pffft. No. Responsible for the deaths of 11 people without any remorse whatsoever, was known to abuse his wife, manipulated his son and then threw him under the bus to support himself and no one else. Barnes's extremely harsh cross-examination of Elaine is basically the closest he can get to threatening her when he tried to have her killed and he makes a very clear threat toward McCoy signaling what was perceived about him all along to be true. He also clearly cares nothing of others who are killed by him or Harlan who had absolutely NOTHING to do with any of this. He cell mates are also a means to an end.
Heinous standard?
For this show itself, I’m familiar with three of the CM s (Volsky, Bruner and Vorgitch) and yeah, I think he fits it. I know the franchise’s heinous standard is ridiculously high, but he fits in as one of the worst for this show though. Five of his killings are not onscreen (the ones he did himself), but the six he has Harlan do on his behalf are and all but one of Barnes's hands-on killings are committed in the same manner. Not to mention four of the victims are unfortunate collateral damage: two women who die only happen to have the same name as one of the targets and two just purely had the misfortune of being there when it is really too bad they were not somewhere else. All this definitely stands out to me. Harlan himself is simply an instrument AND clearly too emotionally damaged.
Verdict?
Go for .
Edited by futuremoviewriter on Apr 26th 2020 at 12:00:17 PM
