During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to Obsidian and Nagi
Ultimate Moral Compass
Simon, Obsidian, and Nagi
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
Say, could someone else volunteer to watch Mai Hime? Not just to verify the Nagi thing, but because there is this other guy, Wataru Ishigami, who I remember being a vile Manipulative Bastard and Hate Sink, but I am unsure if he passes the heinousness standard because I cannot remember how many deaths he causes through his plans.
Edited by MasterN on Feb 14th 2020 at 9:09:15 AM
One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
Lizzid people!
Wait, so you did the EP without even watching the anime?
Goku Black
I think he has but he's as king if anyone wants to help him double check that dude since their not sure.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Yes, I DID watch it. I would never make an EP without having experienced the work myself. It was just a while ago that I saw it, and while I remember the actions of Obsidian and Nagi clearly (because they are the main antagonists), Wataru is kinda fuzzy to me since he is a minor baddie.
Sorry for the misunderstanding.
Edited by MasterN on Feb 14th 2020 at 9:23:22 AM
One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
The Draftsman of Doom
I feel like it's better to watch while you write the effortpost. I mean, you might forget details if you don't write the effortpost shortly after watching the work.
Feels good, don't it?
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
Well, Lighty just made an EP on a work he had seen long ago as well (Simon). And I did read summaries, research, etc, to make sure I did not miss anything. The Obsidian Lord does not show any mitigating qualities- I remember that clearly. As for Nagi, that one scene is the only one where he does not act like a prick. And even then, his intentions are ambiguous.
One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
I literally read the book this morning
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
Oh. Okay. Sorry.
Well, I can rewatch if it you like, but I highly doubt I will find any mitigating qualities for Obsidian or Nagi. As for the manga, I plan to reread that as well. Then I shall propose their manga versions. And trust me, that is only the beginning- I have quite a bit of candidates from this series I plan to propose. Look forward to it.
Other than that, Happy Valentines!
Edited by MasterN on Feb 14th 2020 at 9:40:18 AM
One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
It's been a while since I saw Mai-Otome, but is there absolute confirmation that the Nagi Homura of that series is the same one as the one in Mai Hime? Preferably some confirmation that doesn't rely on Speculative Troping?
I ask because my understanding of Mai-Otome is that the characters there aren't the exact same ones in Mai Hime and that that series is more of an alternate universe thing. For now, I'm going to say ![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
to the Mai Hime version of Nagi unless someone provides proof that he and his Mai-Otome incarnation are the exact same character, but I'll give a to the Obsidian Lord.
Edited by dragonfire5000 on Feb 14th 2020 at 10:20:25 AM
The Draftsman of Doom
Yeah. Rewatching is my suggestion.
Additionally, I neglected to mention this in the Triple Threat effortpost, but upon rewatching, I noticed that even though Devereaux takes some sadistic pleasure in his actions, most of his actions appear to be driven by genuine loyalty to Collins. However, Collins is not going anywhere, since he appears to be nonchalant about Deveraux's death, plus, need I remind you, Collins arranged for Devereaux to free him, fully intending to leave carnage in the wake of his escape.
Edited by SkyCat32 on Feb 14th 2020 at 1:39:40 PM
Feels good, don't it?
Goku Black
Ooh the new Masters of the universe tv show will have Skeletor played by the one and only Mark Hamill.
Shit that sounds great.
Plus it like already increases his cm chances by like 80 percent.
Edited by miraculous on Feb 14th 2020 at 11:35:47 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Oh, I am SO keeping an eye there.
It's pretty ironic that a guy whose most iconic role is Luke Skywalker has so many CMs under his belt.
Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II
When you're also portraying what is probably his second most iconic role, the Joker, that's expected... ![[lol]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/lol2v12_4863.png "[lol]"){kind=small}
Edited by GeorgieEnkoom on Feb 14th 2020 at 9:17:04 PM
J’m’arrête pas tant qu’j’vois pas des lignes sur les moniteurs (Not stoppin 'til I see Flatlines)
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
Alright, just finished rereading the Mai-Hime manga. Will rewatch the anime as well.
What's the work?
Mai Hime is the manga version of the anime. It has somewhat of a similar premise but is an Alternate Continuity. In it, Yuichi has more of a role as the male protagonist. Other than that, same thing, defeat Orphans, save Earth, yadda yadda.
Anyway, Obsidian does some different stuff here, so I will make this a separate EP.
Who is the Obsidian Lord/Prince? What does he do?
The Obsidian Lord is, as in the anime, an alien invader who is hinted to be the HIME star itself. He (or She? The body of the star is female, and it is called the Princess Star, but I will assume the masculine since that is how he refers to himself) has as his ultimate plan to use said star to initiate a Colony Drop on Earth, wiping out humanity. This time, instead of Reito, he possesses Takumi, brother of heroine Mai Tokiha.
He has Nagi go and create the Orphans, causing chaos, then manipulates the Searrs foundation into also attacking. At one point, he orders Nagi to find Pochi, an Orphan that Mikoto has been taking care of, and transform it into a monster, forcing them to kill it (but actually, the Orphan kills itself to save Mikoto). He also corrupts Shiho, turning her into a Yandere and having her attack Yuichi and Mai.
When he finally reveals himself, he promptly kidnaps Mai, then makes a broadcast explaining his plan to the whole world, and just to show he is serious, he wipes out Washington DC. Then he uses More than Mind Control on Mai to turn her into The Dragon, also wanting to make her his bride, and has her and his other two Co-Dragons, the Star Princesses, attack and brutally beat up the heroes. He personally beats down Big Good Mashiro, who came to stop him herself, and then betrays even his Co-Dragons, absorbing them into his super powered CHILD form (ie, the star itself). He comes dangerously close to destroying the planet before being defeated by Mai and the others- thankfully, Takumi is unharmed and free from possession.
Heinousness?
Big Bad, sets it. Attempted genocide of humanity, possession, manipulation, brainwashing, the works.
Mitigating Qualities?
He gives some bizarre excuse about how humans are running the planet, blah blah blah, but the heroes do not buy it and tell him to shut up and stop throwing a temper tantrum.
Verdict?
I say an easy keep, just like his anime version.
Edited by MasterN on Feb 14th 2020 at 1:27:36 AM
One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Sure to Manga!Obsidian.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Meliadus (of future Croydon), Morph, Moriarty (another version of the guy with zombies, I note!), both versions of Obsidian Lord, Priscilla.
If I haven't already voted on Holda, to her as well.
Abstain on Nagi for now.
Now I have 100% finished the Discworld books, I was thinking of an EP for the Cunning Man from I Shall Wear Midnight; this should be good.
Trans rights are human rights. If you don't think that, please leave.
Showtime!
to both obsidians
Let's try a write-up for Meliadus!
- In The History of the Runestaff, the brutal and ambitious Baron Meliadus of Kroiden serves as the commander of the armies of Granbretan and one of the chief agents of its conquests. Feared across Europe for his cruelty, Meliadus brutally strips conquered lands of their resources and commits unspeakable atrocities on their people. Swearing vengeance upon Dorian Hawkmoon when his attempt to turn him into a tool of his prior vendetta against Count Brass (an enmity begun by Meliadus's attempt to rape Brass's daughter Yissolda) by means of the brain-eating Black Jewel fails, Meliadus comes to increasingly devote his resources towards personal revenge, earning the displeasure of his master King-Emperor Huon - which in turn drives Meliadus to overthrow Huon and seize power for himself in a betrayal shocking even to Granbretan, though he himself is killed by Hawkmoon shortly after. Ambitious, self-absorbed and cruel to a fault, in an empire of evil Baron Meliadus stands out above the rest.
Simon, both Obsidians, and Nagi
Has anyone discussed or have any thoughts on any possible qualifiers from the Kingdom Hearts DLC yet we were supposed to discuss on the 6th?
Edited by xie323 on Feb 14th 2020 at 1:19:00 AM
Not sure if anyone counts in the DLC. Could be wrong though, let’s wait and see Scraggle and Polar Phantom’s thoughts on that matter.
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]")
obsidan and Nagi
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."