Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

I'll say yea to Vlad and we probably don't need Joff on the N/A list but I can sympathize with the frustration at the same issue being brought up ad nauseam, just like the arguments to put up the T-1000 seemed to constantly come from the same basis, only to get shot down each time.

Korrok

Edward

AI

Vlad

Vampire the Masquerade Bloodlines sequel announced. Calling.

God. Vampire: The Masquerade brings up bad memories of dealing with Tzimisce. Two conflicting origin stories were one gives you moral agency and the other doesn't was such a pain in the ass to deal with. It was enough to put me off from going ahead with the write up even though he got more than enough yes votes. Since then, we've changed opinions on moral agency so I'm wondering if he was worth bringing up again.

I say do it. That motherfucker was damn nasty.

Watched Us.....my mind is legitmately blown....the discussion is going to be awesome!

So, it's been two weeks since it's release where I am, meaning that I'm free to talk about the latest MCU release: Captain Marvel. Which was... certainly a movie that existed. Not bad, not good, but definitely on the more mediocre side of things IMO.

So anyway, if anyone's hoping for new MCU qualifiers, nobody counts. The Supreme Intelligence of the Kree empire, genocidal asshole of an AI it may be, falls short. Partially because it doesn't get to do much with the screentime it has, but also because when you really get down to it? It doesn't really stand out among the various galactic/world conquerors in the grand scheme of things. Yeah, the Kree wanting to wipe out the Skrulls isn't nice, but considering that the likes of Loki, Malekith, Ultron, Ronan, Ego, Hela, and Thanos having plans that involve domination, genocide, and other such things, it really isn't special in that regard and doesn't do enough to stand out among the CM's currently listed. Maybe in a sequel or something else that explores more of the Kree Empire's crimes it could count, but as it stands... nope.

And Yon-Rogg, Carol Danvers/Captain Marvel's more personal enemy misses the mark for a number of reasons: he has proper redeeming qualities, he seems to genuinely care about Carol (albeit with some manipulative undertones on his part), he fails the heinous standard something fierce, and in general just feels like a cog in the Kree war machine. Hell, as Lightysnake pointed out over PM's, he's not even that bad of a cog given how unpleasant fellow Kree warriors like Ronan and Minn-Erva are.

Now while nobody new counts, nobody's being removed either: Ronan the Accuser makes his second appearance in the MCU and despite it being teased that he'd be explored more in depth as a character... nothing really came of that. While not the blood-bathing, sadistic maniac he is in Guardians of the Galaxy, Ronan seems to have always been a ruthless son of a bitch and his relationship with his father and grandfather isn't explored at all. And even with the introduction of the Kree empire proper, he still comes off leagues worse than any other members of his species due to his crimes in Guardians.

So yeah, no keepers here aside from a guy who stays. I might post an edit of Ronan's writeup that includes a mention of his crimes here, but that won't be for a bit, if ever if people don't think it's necessary. And in other news: since I freed up my workload a bit, I'll be focusing entirely on finishing the Legend of Zelda Oracle games so I can get my effortpost for Veran off the ground. I've really, really been putting her off for too long, now.

Edited by FriedWarthog on Mar 21st 2019 at 10:04:42 AM

Oh, and right, Devil May Cry 5! Now, Polar's got us covered in the MB thread, but here? Shot version? Nobody counts. While Urizen is probably heinous enough, and is the only villain who could stick out...he's the embodiment of Vergil's demon side with the humanity separated from it, meaning all that's left is the malice and hunger for power without the human side to balance it.

And, y'know, Vergil has a laundry list of disqualifying factors.

Everything Fried said? Accurate

Edited by Lightysnake on Mar 21st 2019 at 1:10:01 PM

I did have Some hopes for the Grand Intellagence, But oh well.

Hm shame, I really thought the Supreme Intelligence was heinous enough with its genocide of the Skrulls

Ah hell, why not. Our opinions on mortal agency have evolved since the first time I did this effort post, but I'm deciding to give Tzimisce, the single most evil vampire in all of Vampire: The Masquerade, another try. After thinking it over a long while, I've convinced myself.

Who is Tzimisce?

Tzimisce is considered to be the most inhuman of the Antediluvians, founded and sired the Tzimisce clan of vampires, and created the utterly evil vampiric Discipline known as Vicissitude. There are several conflicting stories on how he came to be.

One story states that the 2nd generation vampire Irad used the Protean discipline to merge all his evil into a mass that was consumed by a mortal who Irad thought to destroy along with his evil. This human appeared normal though, so Irad brought him before his brother Enoch who Embraced the mortal into vampirism and thus created the Tzimisce Antediluvian. Another origin story depicts Tzimisce as being a mortal oracle who sought to solve the mysteries of evolution and achieve perfection. Enoch was fascinated by this mortal's goals and Embraced him so that this oracle could master the most cruel parts of vampirism.

What has he done?

Before I go into Tzimisce's history, I want to describe the Discipline that he created and what would become the defining feature of his bloodline. Vicissitude is most commonly known as the art of flesh and bone shaping. It allows a vampire to shape the flesh and bone of any creature into any form imaginable. The Tzimisce clan of vampires often use it on themselves to appear more beautiful or to become repugnant monstrosities. While the Protean discipline allows vampires to emulate God's creations, Vicissitude is the ultimate form of defilement that allows for even the most beautiful of God's creatures to be twisted to a vampire's own perverse goals. Vicissitude is the most versatile of the vampiric disciplines and I really can't go into the extentive forms of depravity that can be performed with it. To get an idea, go to the World of Darkness page and look up Andrei and Sascha Vykos and see how many of their atrocities are defined by their usage of this ability. Of course, none of the Tzimisce clan know the discipline's true purpose. Vicissitude is an extension of the very will of Tzimisce himself. Any living creature affected by this discipline become infected with Tzimisce's being which will be important later on.

Now on to the many crimes Tzimisce committed over his incredibly long life. He sought above all else to become greater than any other vampire and forever push forward in how he could bend evolution to his whims. During this time, he performed countless horrible experiments on mortals to test the limits on humans evolution and Embraced many mortals and taught them his dark secrets. The Black Hand source book states that Tzimisce was likely the one who created the Baali bloodline when he came across a city of demon worshipers and taught them how to perform their rituals better when he found them wanting. The Baali bloodline, by the way, is considered kill on sight by all other vampire clans because of their worship of infernal entities.

Tzimisce later traveled to the land that would later become known as Transylvania and freed an ancient and powerful demon known as Kupala in exchange for mystical knowledge. Making his home there, he lived in the mountain peaks during the Great Flood and offered shelter for fleeing mortals in exchange for letting him drink their blood and experiment on them.

His body was later destroyed by a rival vampire but he used Vicissitude to reform in the bowels of his child Dracon and forced himself out of Dracon after a nine month "incubation period." Tzimisce slept in the form of a tree until the day a Tzimisce clan member named Ilias cel Frumos stumbled upon the tree and was a given a crimson seed, the Antediluvian in disguise. Ilias later ate this seed when Dracon came back for vengeance against his creator. In the body of Ilias, Tzimisce consumed Dracon and later forced Ilias to rape a young Myca Vykos. The crimson seed became a part of Myca and its influence became a major reason Myca Vykos would later become Sascha Vykos.

Immortal as long as a there was a victim of Vicissitude, Tzimisce reformed and was later hunted down by Lugoj, an Anarch who rebelled against the Tzimisce clan. Lugoj thought Tzimisce was in a state of torpor, but he was not and manged to impale Lugoj on a spike and diablerized him. Diablerie is considered the worst crime a vampire can commit because it involves one vampire devouring and destroying the soul of another vampire. Tzimisce used Vicissitude to impersonate Lugoj until the Final Nights when Gehenna would be loosed upon the world. It is here, during the great apocalypse wherein the Old World of Darkness ended, that Tzimisce's true plans were revealed and showed that his ambitions surpassed all other Antedulivians, except perhaps Giovanni, albeit his plans were far more well thought out and successful.

During the Crucible of God scenario, Tzimisce rests beneath New York City where he uses his ultimate mastery over Vicissitude to devour all the Tzimisce clan vampires in the city before slowly but surely devouring as many animals, humans, and vampires he could get get into contact with. Eventually, his Metamorphosis evolved to such an extent that he became an Eldritch Abomination Blob Monster that eventually devoured and fused with the entire 8 million population of New York City. He grew so large that his entire body soon became exposed to the light of the sun and his physical form was utterly destroyed. Alas, this was not a case of gluttony becoming his fatal flaw. Tzimisce had grown so powerful that his spirit can exist separetly from his body. This allows him to control any vampire that has ever been infected by Vicissitude at will.

Now we go to the plans of Tremere that were covered around the time of Giovanni's effort post. Tremere found out mankind's True Name and sought to control them all and also kill all other vampires. While Giovanni's plans were not very well thought out and were ultimately foiled, Tzimisce's master plan succeeded flawlessly. The Tremere clan were once human sorcerers that became vampires by drinking vampire blood. This blood just so happened to come from the Tzimisce clan. Just as Tremere's ritual was complete, Tzimisce took control of Tremere during the climax of the ritual when he was in touch with every human on earth. Tzimisce uses Vicissitude to fuse with all life on earth turning every living thing into a horrible mockery of what God intended them to be. It is a Fate Worse than Death to say the least.

The players just happen to be shielded by the ritual and are saved by the antediluvian Saulot. During a ritual, Saulot diablerizes the player's souls but allow them enough time to plead for help from God. God long ago made Cain the first vampire as punishment for murdering Abel and swore to never interfere with what resulted from Cain's actions as part of his punishment until he repented. What Tzimisce did was so utterly vile and unholy that God caved before Cain and unleashed his wrath upon Tzimisce and utterly destroyed him. Humanity was cured and was able to rebuild, but all other life on Earth were still monsters and mankind had long road ahead of it. At the very least, Tzimisce was truly dead at long last.

Mitigating Factors?

I had a brief discussion with Lightysnake on this and came to the conclusion that his multiple conflicting origin stories can't really excuse him as being Made of Evil. Although, the one where he is supposedly Made of Evil had him being Embraced but he had to be human at his core to be turned into a vampire in the first place. Another issue was that he is commonly described as having being "alien in thought and deed" but there are multiple instances of him showing clear sadism.

Final Verdict?

It's ultimately up to everyone. He's clearly heinous enough, but I can see why people would be wary given his multiple backstories, but no other vampire in the setting has moral agency issues so I'm still leaning on a "yes".

Actually, if we're taking in the Kree Empires actions in the shows Like the creation of the Inhumans. (Wich as we saw with Hive...wasn't pleasant) before trying to kill them off after they rebel, How does that affect the Grand Intellagence as there responsible for the Empires actions?

EDIT: to Tzimisce.

Edited by Kylotrope on Mar 21st 2019 at 10:54:09 AM

Tzimisce

to Tzimisce

Kylotrope: I can't really say for sure since I couldn't bring myself to watch any further than the pilot for Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D but if I'm not mistaken, aren't the MCU shows and movies related by one-way canon? As in, the movies are canon to the shows but not the other way around? I'd say that the actions of the Kree Empire in the shows have no bearing on the movies but I don't know, thoughts from people who are better acquainted with Ao S than I am?

Now for proper participation, yes to Tzimisce.

Edited by FriedWarthog on Mar 21st 2019 at 11:15:57 AM

First time I'm hearing of that

The shows are canon to the films; Agents of S.H.E.I.L.D. played an important role in Avengers: Age of Ultron. Ever wonder how the Avengers knew where to look for Loki's scepter? I guess the heroes of Agents of S.H.E.I.L.D. told them.

to Tzimisce.

Tzi, Bloodlines 2 was announced btw. So, i gathered a couple of my friends and we tortured ourselves by rewatching Silent Hill: Revelation 3D, the (in)famous sequel to Silent Hill, and to my surprise the Big Bad may actually be a worthy candidate. The movie is still awful.

What is the work? Where do we even start? The sequel takes place six years after the first adaptation, Sharon Da Silva is now Heather Mason, a 18-year-old Angsty young woman who is constantly changing names and homes because The Brethren's parent organization, The Order, is trying to bring her back to Silent Hill. The Order eventually kidnap her father, Harry Mason, forcing her to return to the town and face her demons by herself. Oh and the people who created this atrocity did not play the game at all, obviously; Vincent is not a Faux Affably Evil Jerkass but Heather's Love Interest, and Douglas, the Deuteragonist and Parental Substitute to Heather, is not only Demoted to Extra, but gets killed very early in the movie. The Big Bad of the game is an Anti-Villain who feels genuine remorse for her actions, but here she gets a bit of good ol' Adaptational Villainy to make things less complicated.

Who is she? Claudia Wolf is the sister of both Dahlia and Christabella (Dahlia is the White Sheep of the family). A priestess of The Order of Valtiel, Claudia also had an even darker role within the cult as the monstrous Voluntary Shapeshifter known as The Missionary; here The Brethren are stated to be a subsidiary of The Order, making her Christabella's superior. Like her sisters, Claudia was trapped inside Silent Hill and chose an abandoned place beneath Lakeside Amusement Park as The Order's base, seeking to give birth to her enigmatic God and "cleanse the world of its sins", and to make that happen, Claudia wants Heather to be the incubator. When Claudia's son Vincent, whom she had raised under The Order's brainwashing, reached the age of 18, Claudia performed a ritual on him which allowed the boy to escape from Silent Hill for a period of time and find Heather for her, but also involved cutting a symbol into his chest.

Claiming that her father Leonard, the former leader of The Order who considered her daughter far worse than him, had been "corrupted by the darkness", Claudia sent him to the Brookhaven Asylum and turned him into an "ongoing project", aka performed lobotomies on him; Claudia did the same thing to a number of people while also crucifying "traitors" of The Order outside of the asylum and leaving them to die. Considering her unique shapeshifting powers, Claudia knew she was worse than her father but likely hid her inner darkess from the rest of The Order. Realizing that a private investigator working for her, Douglas, had sided with Heather, Claudia appeared to them as The Missionary and sliced off Douglas's fingers before assassinating him herself. Unfortunately for Claudia, she would soon be betrayed by her son, who had formed a bond with Heather and realized that the education given to him by Claudia was utter bullshit.

After kidnapping Vincent as The Missionary, Claudia spared Vincent from being burned alive by The Order as he had been succesful in bringing Heather back, but deemed him insane for believing that Heather wasn't evil for her connection with Alessa and sent him to the Brookhaven Asylum to have his mind "repaired" like his grandfather before him; the boy would end up being placed in a room filled with hostile Nurses, thanks mom. Confronted by Heather, Claudia refused to release her father, as she intended on feeding the newborn god with his blood, demanding the Seal of Metatron so she could finally summon her god. Heather, who had obtained the artifact from Leonard at Brookhaven Asylum, remembered what he said about how it "reveals the true nature of things", and willingly gave it to Claudia, which unsurprisingly forced her darkness to come out, revealing her identity as The Missionary. A fight that came straight out of DEATH BATTLE! ensues between Pyramid Head and The Missionary (this is Silent Hill btw) and she gets decapitated by the monster's giant blade, The End.

Heinous? Claudia isn't obsessed with Kill It with Fire like her sister, which is an awful way to go, but this woman abandoned her own father and left him to be lobotomized, did the same thing to who knows how many people and almost gave this fate to her own son. I normally enjoy watching sympathetic villains who were stripped of their positive qualities by Adaptational Villainy, but doing this to her is just... wrong.

Mitigating Factors? Her character page lists her as a Well-Intentioned Extremist for wanting to cleanse the world and all. That would definately be the case for Game!Claudia, but here? Frankly, she's no better than her sister, she's just another fanatic. Game!Claudia knew that she wouldn't be accepted in the "Paradise" for her crimes but still wanted to create it because she was devout to her cause, that's what made her such a complex character and an awesome villain in the source material. Film!Claudia has no evidence of understading that she wouldn't be worthy and has no problem in hurting her own family members; Leonard Wolf was originally condemned to the asylum because he was an abusive asshole, here he was sent there by his own daughter's hypocrisy, which says a lot.

Conclusion? . Don't waste your time watching this tho.

Edited by TheMadCr0w on Mar 22nd 2019 at 6:35:37 AM

Oh God I remember Revelation. Yeah, sure to Claudia, whatever... anyone know a good salt bath I can soak my soul through at the recollection of that movie?

With a mention of the specific Multiple-Choice Past, I'm alright with Tzimisce going up.

Edited by Scraggle on Mar 22nd 2019 at 2:29:24 AM

For MCU, we have Coulson appearing in both.

"Maybe in a sequel or something else that explores more of the Kree Empire's crimes it could count..." Yeah, I feel the same way.

I have to read it, but I MAY have found a version of Apocalypse.

I think with Tzimisce, we should mention his Multiple-Choice Past, and if we do, I'm fine with him counting.

I'll give a yes to Claudia.

Is anyone else getting this annoying notice about using an ad-blocker?

Edited by ACW on Mar 22nd 2019 at 4:36:15 AM

Yuuuup. Thought i was the only one.

Claudia

New proposal, from The Killing of Satan.

Who's the candidate?

The Prince of Magic, Satan's top lieutenant on Earth.

What does he do?

We first meet the prince when he confronts Miguel, demanding he show off his skills, and mortally wounding him when he refuses. When Lando San Miguel, Miguel's nephew and chosen successor in the fight agaibst evil, is called to his uncle's vullage, the Prince tries to have him crished byva landslide along with his wife and daughter. They survive, so the Prince has a zombie attack Lando while leading a gang of thugs to attack the village, killing several villagers before Lando stops them with his magical powers, though they do manage to escape with his daughter hostage.

When the Prince takes Lando's daighter to his mountainous domain, where he tortures and murders so many people that the mountain bleeds, he places her in a cage full of naked women. The women are being mentally conditioned into evil and the cage is rigged so that if anybody but the Prince or Satan touches it they die. He plans to make the daughter his master's bride. While we never are told her age, she looks to be in her teens. Despite his instructions, the Prince takes the time to molest her as well.

As Lando hunts down the Prince of Magic, a guy he helped stumbles upon one of the mind-controlled women being raped by some goons. He kills them, and learns that said woman is one of his loved ones (they never specify the relation). Unfortunately, this was a ruse by the Prince, who uses his control over the woman to rip the guy's face off and kill him before causing her chest to explode.

Soon after, Lando confronts the Prince. They get in a battle, Lando kicks his ass, and leave him so he can save his daughter. Lando saves the day and kills Satan, which destroys all his minions, presumably including the Prince.

Heinousness?

The Heavy, sets it. Whuke he does serve Satan, his boss is an Orcus on His Throne.

Mitigating factors?

Despite worshipping the Devil, the Prince shows no love for him, just a love of evil and power. Nothing else is worth noting.

Verdict?

I used to only get it when I wasn't logged in

Anyway, I think we have enough for a Silent Hill page. For the image, we can probably use some version of Holloway and the drill. Any good quotes?

EDIT: Sure to the Prince.

Edited by ACW on Mar 22nd 2019 at 4:40:05 AM

Tzimisce and Claudia , Prince

Edited by miraculous on Mar 22nd 2019 at 1:40:48 AM