During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Mir, who are we forgetting? You listed 7, plus my 2.
EDIT: Demichev.
EDIT 2: Live-action may be Richard Lynch; Scraggle and Lighty got a LOT from them. I know Karloff and Lugosi also have a lot.
EDIT 3: Let me try Hamill: Joker thrice; Trickster twice; Ozai; Muska; Malefor; Replicant; Maltruant; Kavaxas...that's only 11.
Edited by ACW on Feb 16th 2019 at 9:52:19 AM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Do you know of any actors who have never (to your knowledge) played a Complete Monster?
Goku Black
For the Japense actor with double digits that would be Norio Wakamoto whose Cell, Baratos Goetia, Demon King Darm, Guren, Rugal Bernstein, Imran Zahkev, Kagato, M Bison, Vicious, Overlord Zenon,Mumkhar, Nikita Dragovich, Sengoku Basara oda Nobunga and je played the female CM Shiva.
Edited by miraculous on Feb 16th 2019 at 6:58:48 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
been thinking on making a list of cm voice actors but I'll let it slide.
As for Romuska rewrite? Me no likey ![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
I dont see any difference except changing the past tense into present tense. But it would be interesting if it ended up getting modified and trimmed.
Edited by ElfenLiedFan90 on Feb 16th 2019 at 9:56:16 PM
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
Goku Black
Abosolute no to changing it.
It's fine as is.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Does he qualify as a Knight of Cerebus? I changed it to Vile Villain, Saccharine Show.
Oh, if you include newcomers, there's so many live-action and voice actors alike that haven't done any yet. While there's too many to list them all, here are some more established voice actors that come to mind; Tara Strong, Bryce Papenbrook, Cristina Valenzuela, Kari Wahlgren, Carrie Savage, Robbie Daymond, Cherami Leigh, Phil La Marr, Josh Grelle (though Joseph/Cartaphilus came pretty close), Kate Higgins, Colleen O'Shaughnessey, Laura Bailey, Ian Sinclair, Michael Sinterniklaas, Michelle Ruff, Mona Marshall, Jason Liebrecht, Wendee Lee, Veronica Taylor, Brittney Karbowski, Jad Saxton, John Burgmeier, Aaron Dismuke, Austin Tindle, Matthew Mercer, Jessica Di Cicco, Maurice La Marche, Rob Paulsen, Alexis Tipton, Trina Nishimura, Jason Douglas (which is honestly kind of surprising), Caitlin Glass, Max Mittelman, the late June Foray... gosh, there's way too many to get all of them, but I think that's a pretty good start.
Edited by Devoted2Nintendo on Feb 23rd 2019 at 8:59:13 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
THAT'S probably a fine change; it needs eventual de-potholing as well.
BTW, the Rick and Morty duo, and Loki, will go to their respective media pages with the usual batch, but here they are for the franchise pages, along with the images.
- Simon Legree◊ from Uncle Tom's Cabin.
- Takeshi Asakura◊ from Kamen Rider Ex-Aid.
- Rick and Morty vs. Dungeons & Dragons, by Patrick Rothfuss, Jim Zub, et al.: Sebastian and Lucy are a duo of sorcerers who have been kidnapping babies and stealing shards to start a ritual to "cleanse" the world. Posing as innocent farmers whose child was kidnapped, they trick the Smiths into attacking a village of innocent ogres. They then use the chaos as a distraction to kidnap an ogre baby and steal a shard to complete the ritual. The duo then attempts to sacrifice six babies of various races to bring down the sun in an attempt to end all life in the world.
- Digital Devil Story: Loki is the Big Bad of the first book and the catalyst for the trilogy as a whole. A demon summoned by Akemi Nakajima to get revenge on two students, Loki orders Nakajima to procure female sacrifices as compensation, including Nakajima's teacher Ohara, whom he impregnates. Initially following the terms of the deal, Loki has a teacher murdered against Nakajima's wishes. Lusting after Yumiko Shirasagi, Loki demands her as a sacrifice and betrays Nakajima when he refuses. He then manipulates the brainwashed Ohara into summoning him into the real world, and goes on a killing spree by devouring countless students and other innocent civilians. He attempts to rape Yumiko, and was only thwarted by the goddess Izanami's intervention, but nonetheless manages to fatally wound Yumiko in the process. In pursuit of the protagonists, Loki murders the loyal Cerberus and Yomotsu-Shikome, and tries to rape Izanami as well. A demon solely driven by his wanton lust for rape and blood, Loki sets the standards for future Shin Megami Tensei villains.
Edited by ACW on Feb 16th 2019 at 3:28:21 PM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Lizzid people!
No to the Muska rewrite.
Goku Black
Actually a few pf thoose guys already have examples.
Johnny Young Bosch has two already. He's Claude and Ryuunosuke Uryuu while Yuri Lowenthell has Serph Sheffield and Stephanie Sheh is Airy the evil one.
Travis William is Relius Clover and Tom Kenny is Antimoniter
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
By the way Billy West actually does have somone in Vangus.
Edited by miraculous on Feb 16th 2019 at 7:20:31 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Ha... I knew I was going to make some mistakes somewhere along the way since I'm not so well-versed in everyone's respective careers that I can say for sure. I've already deleted the ones you named, and I'll probably continue to edit it as I think of more notable people who I'm pretty sure don't have one, and alternatively, that I realize I'm wrong about.
About Alejandro Sosa from Scarface:
Alejandro Sosa isn’t actually that much heinous for Scarface’s standards. He has basically committed the same crimes as Tony and taking place in a gangster Crapsack World, Sosa is pretty generic and what you would expect from a villain. The most common argument i’ve heard to why he counts is that scene when he send Tony and his assassin to kill the journalist that is about to expose Sosa, and it turns out that his wife and kids is about to be killed in the process. However I find this argument somewhat weak because Sosa didn’t even know about the wife and kids and was never shown later to be aware of it afterwards. It even says on the CM criterias that atrocities that wasn’t on purpose generally don’t qualify for a character, especially when the character wasn’t shown to become aware of said atrocity. So the argument that he was willing to hurt children needs more support. If Sosa openly admitted that didn’t care about the children, it would make difference, but he didn’t.
Thought?
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Well, I've not seen the movie, but that's an interesting case. There IS this quote from Sosa in the (alternate-canon) game:
In that case he qualifies for the Video Game but not the Movie. They should be treated as different universes.
Edited by Enigmatic_Mastermind on Feb 16th 2019 at 7:27:24 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
In which case, I'm REALLY not sure he counts. It's an...odd situation, to say the least.
Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object
to cutting the Disney Page.
Given this conversation has been pushed to ‘who hasnt’ territory and other variants, I think we can move on.
You know what, i've recently seen the movie and i'm in favor of cutting Sosa. It's right that Sosa was not even aware about wife and children in the car, it was his henchman's decision to go along with it. And Sosa come of as no different than any other criminal in the film. Also in game, Sosa didn't do anything except trying to kill Tony, so i'm not sure he counts in either version.
Edited by VeryVileVillian on Feb 16th 2019 at 6:34:00 PM
No issues with cutting
Oh, Vile, is that my Nyarlathotep poem in your sig? I'm flattered.
Edited by Lightysnake on Feb 16th 2019 at 10:42:38 AM
Sosa.
Can we at least cut the Knight of Cerebus pothole from Muska's entry?
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
Here's my belated writeup on some candidates and as Devoted greenlighted it. Now here are my ideas of the writeup on Dream Eater Merry regarding Ryota's rewrite:
- Combining with Mistleteinn's writeup: The anime exclusive duo, Mystleteinn/Mistleteinn/Mistilteinn Treesea and Ryota Ijima are vicious partners in crime who ruins the dream of other people by implanting Dream Demons on innocent students which resulted on them becoming emotionless and apathetic towards the future of their own lives. While the former is a Dream Demon who tortures and eats others of her kind, the latter is a charismatic teacher and guidance-counselor at the hero's Highschool who took a sadistic relish on what he had done and reveals his true nature to one of his students by repeatedly kicking her head. Confronted by Merry in Isana's dream, Treesea taunts her and tries to kill her own Dream Demon she attached to Isana to harvest her. In the final confrontation with the heroes, Treesea imprisons Merry in to drown her in her own sorrow and after the Heroic Sacrifice performed by the two heroes to kill Mistleteinn failed, Mistleteinn then mocks it as being "fruitless" while Ijima spitefully beats Yumeji after acting as a sadistic spectator during the fight
- Standalone Writeup: The aforementioned Ryota Ijima is a charismatic teacher and guidance-counselor at Yumeji's Highschool. However, he reveals himself to be something sinister. In the last parts of the episode, he was revealed to conspire with the evil Dream Demon, Mistleteinn Treesea, to ruin the dreams of other students by killing the dream demons, taking a sadistic relish from all of it. He then reveals his true nature towards one of his students by repeatedly kicking her head and during the final confrontation, he then spitefully beats Yumeji after the other two heroes failed to kill Mistleteinn.
Yea... It's not the best idea to combine the writeup and better to make a standalone one. But even then, I would want your opinion if we should merge Ryota with Mistleteinn or create a standalone writeup. I still spoil Ryota's name because well... The dude is a Walking Spoiler unlike Mistleteinn.
Also, on another note, here's Bobby Hayes' writeup:
- R.I.P.D.: Bobby Hayes betrayed his former partner in Boston Police Department, Nick Walker, after the latter tries to give the gold that they stole to the authorities. It was revealed that he conspire with undead creatures known as the Dead-O's and then tries to use the stolen gold in order to create Staff of Jericho, an artifact which will reverse the flow of souls from Earth to the afterlife and resulted on The End of The World. To activate the staff, he then kidnaps Nick's wife to use her as a human sacrifice and after she is stabbed, Bobby then taunts Nick that a human sacrifice for the staff doesn't necessarily to be her wife. It was revealed that Bobby did all of this so that he could slake his personal amusement.
Also, I prefer to pothole this part "slake his personal amusement." to The Hedonist instead of For the Evulz because well, he's a fucking Hedonist and it is one of the defining characters in the film. But if you don't want it. I'm cool
Edited by ElfenLiedFan90 on Feb 16th 2019 at 11:28:44 PM
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
I was almost waiting for someone to indicate when they felt like the topic had been dragged out too long... don't worry, I'm finished talking about it. In my opinion, creating a separate entry for Ryota Ijima seems like the better option, and since they're both anime-exclusive characters, I think they could be preceded by something like "the anime version has this despicable duo", or something to that effect. Also, make sure to double check for typos.
Edited by Devoted2Nintendo on Feb 16th 2019 at 11:45:20 AM
Thanks a lot for that link Silverblade. Okay, so 43110 was correct, a far as live-action actors go, Gary Oldman seems to have the most with 5. Too bad it doesn't include voice actors though, since I'd still love to know how Mark and Steve have that many.
Edit: Thanks ACW and Miraculous. At least now we have a list of most of them. And for anyone who missed my revised list for Vic Mignogna, it goes like this; Luciano Bradley from Code Geass, Yuuto Ijika from Twin Star Exorcists, Priest Mendoza from Garo: The Animation, Sora Takeuchi from Air Gear, Dr. Rotwang from Tiger & Bunny, Kalis Norman from Jinki: Extend, and now Ryota Ijima from Dream Eater Merry.
Edited by Devoted2Nintendo on Feb 18th 2019 at 12:52:34 PM