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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#77051: Feb 13th 2017 at 2:43:40 AM

Silverblade: Go for it.

[tup] Sidney Fletcher,

[tup] Nicholas Mortimer

[tup] Semei

[tup] Robert Marsh

[tup] Rikkard

Following Jerome's death in season two and this apparent Red Herring status of being the future Joker, it would appear his fathers prediction of his legacy came true; that it would be one of madness in death. This legacy is in the form of a Cult of Personality, with hundreds Gotham residents, full of people who think and desire to live by Jerome's way of chaos for the sake of chaos. They also watch footage of Jerome's massacre of the GCPD where he gave his speech which they listen to and quote as if it where scripture; You're all prisoners. What you call sanity, it's just a prison in your minds that stops you from seeing that you're just tiny little cogs, in a giant absurd machine. Wake up! Why be a cog? Be free, like us. Just remember, smile. Oh! Time to go, but don't worry, we'll be back very soon. Hang onto your hats, folks, cause' you ain't seen nothing yet!

So yeah, these guys are kinda nuts. And they are lead by a man named Dwight Pollard. Dwight was a employee of Indian Hill. Jerome's body was taken to Indian Hill under possession of Hugo Strange as part of his experiments to bring back the dead. Jerome's body was kept in a cryogenic state but was never revived by Strange. Dwight planned to use what he learned in Indian Hill to resurrect Jerome for his cult. They eventually get there hands on Jerome's body, and despite Dwight's efforts it doesn't go as planned. Desperate to please the cult, Dwight surgically removed Jerome's face and wears it like a mask in place of a resurrected Jerome. They are disappointed but Dwight gives them a speech about how Jerome is in all of them. With this in mind he leads them on an attack on a news station.

Jerome's body is taken back to the GCPD morgue with a single officer guarding it. When Dr. Leslie Tompkins enters the room later on, she sees the officer dead and is taken by surprise by a now living Jerome using bandages to cover up his flayed face, taking her at gunpoint. He forces Lee to sit down and tell him what he missed out on and states he intends to take revenge on Theo Galavan for killing him, only to lean that Theo already died, came back from the dead and was killed again. Jerome also remembers the last thing he did before his death was try to kill Bruce Wayne. Jerome then asks where his face is and sees Dwight and his crew holding up the news station on TV, with Dwight wearing his face. Jerome steals and police uniform and car and drives off.

Once Gordan and the GCPD stop Dwight and the others, Jerome intercepts them and kills the officer arresting Dwight and takes off with him. Jerome takes Dwight to an abandoned facility where he staples his face back on. Jerome sarcastically tells Dwight not to worry about what happened, only to have him strapped to a self made bomb. Jerome uses a stolen news camera to make a broadcast across Gotham, announcing his return and telling his followers to do whatever they want and kill whoever they want. Jerome then tells Dwight he doesn't forgive him for his face before igniting the bomb and leaving. The following explosion kills Dwight of course, and shuts down the power in Gotham.

Following Jerome's announcement, his followers begin to wreck havoc in Gotham, with even ordinary citizens letting out their inner psychopaths and following Jerome's orders. Jerome also decided to tie up one of his last loose ends and kill Bruce Wayne. Jerome and a few of his lackies arrive at Wayne Manor, where he simply intends to kill Bruce. Bruce buys some time and tells Jerome that simply killing him in his own home is underwhelming and Jerome decides he has a valid point before abducting Bruce and leaving his lackies to kill Alfred, who manages to beat them with the help of Gordon.

Jerome takes Bruce to a sadistic theme park Jerome set up, with each game and attraction being used to kill and torture innocent people Jerome's followers abducted. Jerome offers to show Bruce around before the main event. Jerome has clown markup painted on Bruce face before stabbing one of his henchmen in the gun and using the blood to paint a frown on Bruce's mouth. After playing a dunking game which involves dropping someone in a piranha tank, Jerome puts a couple of staples in Bruce's arm, before deciding it's time for the main event.

In a circus tent, Jerome announces to his followers that the night has been a success and has Bruce tied to a stake and prepares a cannon to shoot him. While Jerome makes a big show of him loading the canon, Gordan, Alfred and a GCPD task force arrives and in the resulting chaos, Jerome lights the fuse, but Bruce manages to escape, using a staple in his arm to cut through the ropes. Jerome chases Bruce into a house of mirrors where Bruce corners him. Jerome feigns giving Bruce a chance to prove himself a hero by killing him only to pull out a knife. Bruce and Jerome get into a fight, with Bruce coming out on top and laying a smackdown on Jerome akin to Jon Snow's fight with Ramsay Bolton and beating Jerome's face to mush. Bruce stops himself from kill Jerome and leaves. Jerome gets back up and makes another attempt on Bruce's life, where Gordan hits Jerome a couple of times, knocking him out and knocking his face off. Jerome is placed in a hospital to get his face reattached and sent to Arkham Asylum.

So Jerome still counts. All that's needed is a rewrite of his entry.

  • ''Gotham: Jerome Valeska, who first appears in season 1, ends up in Arkham Asylum for murdering his mother, in his words, for nagging him. When interrogated, he laughs it off as if it was a joke. In the season 2 premiere, he and several other inmates are recruited into the Maniax gang by Theo Galavan. Jerome functions as the de facto leader, announcing their presence by throwing several hostages off a roof. Later, he attempts to set a bus full of high school cheerleaders on fire and shoots up the GCPD station, personally killing Commissioner Essen, and kills one of his own men for cracking a joke he was about to make. Following the massacre he announces on live TV that the people of Gotham "ain't seen nothing yet." Later, Jerome kills his father when the carnival is back in town, then poses as a magician to hold a children's hospital charity hostage, killing the deputy mayor. He plans to kill thirteen-year-old Bruce Wayne, threatening his butler Alfred to draw him out. When he gets his hands on Bruce, he begins to slowly slit his throat in the following standoff. Following his death, Jerome had a cult following to his name that embraced his ideology, it's leader Dwight planned to resurrect him via is research on India Hill. Shortly after his resurrection, Jerome has Dwight strapped to a bomb, and announces his return to the city encouraging his followers to spread death and chaos in the city to their hearts content, before detonating the bomb. In the chaos, Jerome intends to finish killing Bruce, before deciding to do something special to kill him. Jerome takes Bruce to a sadistic theme park where innocent people are tortured and killed in twisted carnival games, forcing Bruce to watch and staple his arm, before preparing the main event; to blast Bruce with a cannon in front of his followers. Following his resurrection, and a maniacal psychopath who believes in chaos for the sake of chaos, Jerome is on the path to become Gotham's most infamous criminal.

[down] Done.

edited 13th Feb '17 3:10:46 AM by Beast

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
Silverblade2 Since: Jan, 2013
#77052: Feb 13th 2017 at 2:51:01 AM

[up] Self Demonstrating Character Pages are not meant to be linked to. SelfDemonstrating.The Joker even has the warning on top that you should use ComicBook.The Joker instead.

edited 13th Feb '17 3:01:32 AM by Silverblade2

ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#77053: Feb 13th 2017 at 4:20:15 AM

[up][up] You know what to do with the entry. Though he was only sent to Arkham? Me thinks he'll be back?

CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Ravok Caesar Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Caesar
#77054: Feb 13th 2017 at 7:59:48 AM

Alright, now that we're discussing Gotham, I can bring this up: With all the monstrous psychopaths, notably the recent Jervis Tetch who, though a non-Keeper thus far, is still extremely bad, showing up in the series as of late, plus Jerome's newest rapsheet, I'd like to issue a formal reevaluation of Theodore Galavan.

Here's his write-up:

  • Theodore "Theo" Galavan (previously Dumas), Arc Villain for the first half of season 2, appears to be a charismatic businessman with aspirations to become the mayor of Gotham, but he's soon revealed to be much worse. He starts his run on the show by feeding a potion to Zaardon, who proceeds to break some inmates out of Arkham. When one of them tries to back out of the super group of criminals he's cooked up, the Maniax, Theo has him killed on the spot. Jerome may be the leader of the Maniax, but Theo is the true brains, coldly disposing of Jerome once he has outlived his usefulness, just so he can position himself as a savior. He then uses the Penguin's mother to blackmail him into performing the next step of his master plan: destroying Wayne Enterprises buildings by arson. As soon as the Penguin finds out where his mother is, Theo releases her... only to promptly have her killed in her son's arms. On top of that, he has the real mayor, Aubrey James, kidnapped and tortured, and the effect is so powerful Mayor James is forced to commit perjury on the stand for fear of his own life. Even a prison cell can't contain his monstrosity, as he threatens his own sister, Tabitha, for getting personal with Gordon, whom she blames for the comatose state of her insane friend Barbara. Not only that, as soon as he's exonerated, he has Gordon kidnapped and tortured, and in "Worse Than a Crime," he threatens Silver into getting back into Bruce's good graces before the sacrificial rite and tries to murder her when she does her job a little too well. On top of being mayor, he ultimately plans to kill Bruce, as he blames the Wayne family for his own family’s downfall (yet he has no qualms about ruining other families). Cold, calculating, and petty, Theo Galavan is motivated purely by pride and revenge, and sees even his own immediate family as stepping stones towards that end.

Now, Galavan is a prick, don't get me wrong, and would easily count in a standalone work. His crimes come to "Kill some people; Unleash Jerome; Torture a guy; Murdered a man's mother in front of him; Threatened to kill his niece; Tried to kill Bruce Wayne"

But, even when he was originally proposed, I had my hesitations as to whether he was really heinous enough, especially with Jerome in the same arc (Sure Theo backed him up, but every indication was that Jerome was making most of the plans). Now though, with people like Hugo Strange who performed mass Mind Rape and nearly nuked Gotham, Jerome whose crimes have just skyrocketed, and Jervis Tetch who committed numerous counts of Psychic-Assisted Suicide, tried to murder a completely innocent child, and planned to turn a bunch of Gothamites into rage-filled killers......Galavan no longer passes the heinous bar for the series.

Murder? So common place it's barely THAT heinous anymore. Killing loved ones? Slightly unique, but still perpetrated by other villains (Jervis) with WAY less resources than he, same thing with torture. Threatening children? Same as the latter.

Consider this: Galavan is a crime lord and MAYOR. He has a buttload of political power and resources, yet....all other CMs currently listed, plus a minor villain or two (Jervis), surpass him in heinousness, and NONE of them have even close to Galavan's resources.

So, yeah, that's my argument. Put me down to 'Cut' Galavan. Thoughts?

edited 13th Feb '17 8:15:56 AM by Ravok

WHAT A WONDERFUL DAY!
AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#77055: Feb 13th 2017 at 8:06:27 AM

Never saw Gotham, so can't really comment on that.

ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#77056: Feb 13th 2017 at 8:10:45 AM

I too haven't seen it, but that seems like a compelling case.

CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#77057: Feb 13th 2017 at 8:14:37 AM

Oh, yeah, I have no reservations about cutting Galavan. I think even with his actions as Azrael, Theo's well under the heinous standard for this series now, sort of like how the Marauder dropped off the map when the standard got too high. I'll throw in a "cut" vote.

MGD107 Since: Feb, 2015
#77058: Feb 13th 2017 at 8:33:54 AM

[tup] to Sidney Fletcher, Nicholas Mortimer, Robert Marsh, and Rikkard.

futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#77059: Feb 13th 2017 at 8:36:30 AM

I was thinking maybe I'd bring up Agents Gibbs from Air Force One if that character hasn't been discussed (may be the same case as it was with Juno Skinner from True Lies), but whether or not I decide to do that, I'm probably gonna try to do Deckert first.

FriedWarthog Since: Jun, 2014 Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#77060: Feb 13th 2017 at 9:29:52 AM

I've seen Air Force One, Gibbs doesn't count. He completely, utterly fails the heinous standard compared to Korshunov (And before anyone asks, he himself doesn't count due to caring for his men and a genuine, albeit fanatical sense of patriotism for his home country). If I remember correctly he only kills, what, one guy?

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#77062: Feb 13th 2017 at 9:47:19 AM

[up][up]He kills five (the three agents near the weapons vault, the PJ trying to help Marshall get off the plane and Caldwell). I would make the argument that everything bad that happens is because he helped Ivan and his men hijack the plane (it's made clear they couldn't do it without help), but much like Juno, it's probably not enough. He also had a backstory (CIA spook who lost money during the Cold War, was mad at the government and knew Ivan and the others from when he was in the CIA) which was deleted from the movie. Not sure it would have disqualified him, but still not enough it seems.

I once again make the comparison to Raphelson from White House Down, but what made him stand out more I suppose was that his role in everything that happened was far more active and that he actually directly made the order to have the White House bombed so he could hide the evidence and that didn't just pertain to all the witnesses still there, but any of his still living co-conspirators too.

Also, Ivan mentioned that he had children. We never see them, but I don't take that to be a lie. Knew Ivan didn't count. Didn't intend to bring him up.

edited 13th Feb '17 10:00:13 AM by futuremoviewriter

MovieFan2000 Since: Jan, 2016
#77063: Feb 13th 2017 at 9:50:12 AM

I personally still vote [tup] for Galavan. He's responsible as Valeska for having him set free, so even Valeska's victims are his fault, albeit indirectly. This added with the other crimes listed fits the heinous standards quite well, I think.

edited 13th Feb '17 9:55:53 AM by MovieFan2000

k410ren Since: Jan, 2016
#77064: Feb 13th 2017 at 9:57:08 AM

[up]I agree. Also for Galavan: he could have just sent someone to shoot Bruce in the head and be done with it, he didn't to need to set a gang of psychopaths loose on the city and authorize Human Sacrifice ceremonies. He also regards almost everyone as disposable, even his niece.

Forgot something for Tetch: he mind-raped his sister for years, trying to force her to have sex with him; "[thoughts] a brother shouldn't have."

So what are the thoughts on Arjen Rudd and Durza?

edited 13th Feb '17 10:01:32 AM by k410ren

"I'll show you the Dark Side." CM actors and kills
Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#77065: Feb 13th 2017 at 10:18:24 AM

I've got some rewrites in mind for some old candidates of mine... specifically, Buppa and Merra from the film version of Tokyo Tribes. I think they sort of... understate the character's heinousness, I'll say? Anyhow, the original writeups:

  • Tokyo Tribe:
    • Buppa is the slovenly, repugnant crime lord of Buppa Town, which he keeps in a perpetual state of misery. Keeping secure hold of Tokyo through manipulation of the lower Tribes into constant war, Buppa is a vicious, remorseless, cannibalistic slob with a habit of forcing women he kidnaps into prostitution, if he doesn't force them to become mentally broken furniture or his dinner. Employing Merra to murder and torture all whom he considers an obstacle, Buppa utilizes his army, the Waru, into overrunning Tokyo and killing all other Tribes. Even his loyalty to the High Priest is a sham, as Buppa intends to betray him and take over Asia.
    • Merra, Buppa's bloodthirsty hitman, is arguably even more vile than his boss. A twisted psychopath with a knack for molesting and raping women and brutally killing anyone he doesn't like, Merra makes his mark on the plot by gleefully slaughtering Buppa's dinner guests to test his sword. Merra slaughters people completely at random and holds a special hatred for his enemy Kai, and kills his friends for the sole purpose of hurting him. A willing participant of Buppa's murderous takeover of Tokyo, Merra leads the Waru to kill all they come across, turns on his own allies for the flimsiest of slights, and ultimately announces his intent to dominate Tokyo himself after Buppa's death. An unhinged, uncontrollable psychopath whose primary drive is his jealousy of Kai's better endowment, Merra rejects potential redemption because of his petty grudge and was among the worst criminals in dystopian Tokyo.

...and my proposed rewrites:

  • Tokyo Tribe:
    • Lord Buppa is the slovenly, repugnant crime lord of Buppa Town, a miserable, crime-infested cesspool Buppa keeps in a perpetual state of misery. A sadist who keeps firm control over Tokyo through manipulating the lower Tribes into constant war, Buppa regularly gathers droves of woman for his own depraved purposes; selling them into forced prositution, gifting them to his son N'koi to be mentally broken and converted into furniture, or simply outright butchering and eating them. One of Buppa's first scenes has him allow Merra to savagely kill a gathering of guests at his dinner before spraying one of the survivor's arms with something that will cause agonizing necrosis in it, purely to amuse himself. Buppa eventually spearheads an invasion of Tokyo by utilizing his Tribe, the Waru, to exterminate every other Tribe and give him permanent control over Tokyo. Even his loyalty to the High Priest is a sham, as Buppa intends to murder him and take over Asia himself. A corrupt, greedy thug of a crime lord, Buppa is nothing less than proud of the murderous reputation he's cultivated and states he'll become the devil of Asia in his rigorous attempt to conquer everything he can.
    • Buppa's psychotic hitman and one of his Co-Dragons, Merra, is no less vile than his boss. A Serial Rapist who introduces himself stripping and molesting a cop who confronts him on the circulation of drugs, Merra gleefully butchers Buppa's dinner guests when he's allowed and happily tortures and murders anyone Buppa employs him to. In conflict with his lifelong rival Kai - whom Merra has dedicated himself to utterly ruining due to his jealousy of Kai's better endowment - Mera beats down the daughter of the High Priest, Sunmi/Erika, sexually gratifies himself by threatening to stab her, and implicitly rapes her, before giddily murdering Tera in his attempt to kill Kai. Merra eagerly participates in Buppa's invasion of Tokyo, brutally murdering whomever he can get his hands on, even his own allies, ultimately driving to take over Tokyo himself after Buppa dies. Not even remotely resembling his Noble Demon counterpart from the anime and manga, Merra is a wanton, ludicrously petty psychopath who stands out even in the polluted standards of the setting.

How's that?

edited 13th Feb '17 10:33:24 AM by Scraggle

Mediawatcher Since: Dec, 2015
#77066: Feb 13th 2017 at 10:26:58 AM

[tup]Sidney Fletcher, Nicholas Mortimer, Robert Marsh, and Rikkard

[tdown]Theo, never seen the series, but if people with lower resources manage to outshine him than go ahead.

[up] I keep forgetting it's the film version and not the anime/manga version

[down] I just saw that gosh goosh scene of him and I was immediately shocked he didn't count

[down][down] never saw it but based on what scraggle told me, he genuinely loved his son, and it wasn't an obsessive incest love, it was genuine care... I am not happy

edited 13th Feb '17 10:40:53 AM by Mediawatcher

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#77067: Feb 13th 2017 at 10:28:15 AM

[up] The anime version of Buppa not counting is something I am and always will be bitter about, as he's one of the most disgustingly vile anime villains I can recall in recent memory. So glad his film version counts as handily as he does.

ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#77068: Feb 13th 2017 at 10:35:42 AM

Scraggle, drafts please. Why the hell DOESN'T Mr. "Goosh-Goosh'' count? He can't be less heinous than Jadakins.

edited 13th Feb '17 10:36:49 AM by ACW

CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#77069: Feb 13th 2017 at 10:39:32 AM

As a simple search would reveal, he loved his son.

Kookosbanaani Since: May, 2015
#77070: Feb 13th 2017 at 10:42:26 AM

[tup] for keeping Galavan. I'd say he still manages to fit the heinous standard for his influence over most of the bad guys, although his sadism is not portrayed as over-the-top as someone like Valeska's.

edited 13th Feb '17 10:43:18 AM by Kookosbanaani

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#77071: Feb 13th 2017 at 10:43:11 AM

[up][up] That. If it weren't for that one redeeming quality, Big Buppa would count easily. And while film!Buppa is cordial with his son in the movie, the actual love doesn't seem to be there, so Buppa counts firmly.

edited 13th Feb '17 10:45:09 AM by Scraggle

futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#77072: Feb 13th 2017 at 10:47:04 AM

Time to give xXx: State of the Union a shot.

The 2005 sequel to the hit 2002 James Bond send up. Each one has focus on someone with extreme stunt skills recruited by the NSA to help stop a plot against the world/government. The first one involved adrenaline junkie Xander Cage (Vin Diesel) being recruited, the second one had the recruit be disgraced Navy Lt. Darius Stone (Ice Cube).

Who is he?

George Deckert. A US Navy General turned Secretary of Defense (played by Willem Dafoe).

What has he done?

As a general, he ordered the unit he was leading to smoke civilians out of a building. Darius refused (along with others) and during a struggle, Darius punched Deckert out and broke his jaw. Deckert had Darius arrested and imprisoned for violating orders and when he became Defense Secretary, had Daruis' sentence extended. The movie opens with Deckert ordering his men to charge into a private NSA base and kill everyone. The only two to escape are Augustus Gibbons and his assistant Toby Lee Shavers.

After Darius is recruited and Gibbons helps him escape from prison, Deckert and his Dragon Lt. Alabama "Bama" Cobb accost Gibbons in his home and apparently kill him, blowing it up to make it look like an accident. Deckert's ultimate plan is to have President James Sanford and all the cabinet members ahead of him killed in an attack so that he can become the President and create a more militarized government as opposed to the more peaceful and negotiating one that Sanford has in mind. Deckert also has a general who agrees with the President killed, both for that reason and so he can frame Darius for the murder as well.

It's revealed that while he didn't actually kill Gibbons or any of the officers in the unit who sided with Darius, he only faked their deaths and locked them up specifically for the purpose of having them be framed as terrorists who initiated the coup against the President. He has his men on the night of the State of the Union kill several of the cabinet members after luring them outside the Capital Building and then intends to kill Sanford himself calling him weak for thinking peace is the answer to keeping their country safe.

Darius interferes and Deckert flees with Sanford as his hostage on the underground train. He changes his plans to have Sanford killed and make himself look like the man who tried to safe him. After Darius kills Cobb, Deckert and Sanford briefly fight (Sanford holding his own pretty well) and Darius helps Sanford escape and fights Deckert himself. Deckert gets a hold of a gun and tries to shoot Darius ("I've been waiting for this for 10 years!"), but Darius jumps from the train just as Gibbons in a helicopter bombs the train, killing Deckert.

Heinous standard?

Yorgi from the first one intended to set off nerve gas just to cause chaos and kill millions of people. He also discovered Yelena was a government agent and rather than exposing her, manipulated her into having sex with him just to screw with her. What keeps him from counting is that he has an actual genuine care for the people he works with. The motivations of the villains in the third one range from following government orders, to rebelling against the government to who the hell knows? Deckert doesn't have any of that. He uses his men as blunt instruments for his bidding the same as he intends to use the ones who sided with Darius to be scapegoats. He also intends to take over the country by having those above him killed and in doing so, likely intends deadly consequences for any country he deems an enemy too. He also has more people killed than Yorgi as well. Also, having several men locked up for days with the sole intentions of framing them for his crimes and keeping them out of the way otherwise is pretty bad too.

Redeeming qualities? Mitigating factors?

He's only buried with military honors to hide xXx's involvement, not because anyone actually thought he contributed something good in any way. He claims to be a Well-Intentioned Extremist seeking to protect the country, but he has so many agents killed in order to fulfill his plan and then plans to kill just out of spite in the end that he proves to be more of a Knight Templar instead. He doesn't care about who gets hurt as long as he's the one in control in the end. He's a power hungry and bloodthirsty warmonger and control freak who's only goal is to claim America for himself.

Verdict?

He sounds like he counts. [tup]

Ravok Caesar Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Caesar
#77073: Feb 13th 2017 at 10:59:10 AM

Great Tokyo Tribes rewritres, Scraggle. The "Goosh-Goosh" scene will forever haunt my nightmares...

To reiterate on Galavan, nothing he does is unique. Dollmaker performs horrifying surgeries and organ trafficking. Strange Mind Rapes dozens of people into committing murders, nearly nukes Gotham, and tries to murder teenagers. Jerome tries to burn a school bus of cheerleaders alive, commits countless murders, and sends the entirety of Gotham into chaos and mass killings by causing a blackout then ordering his cult to basically go crazy. And this ignoring murdering his own parents and his circus of horror.

Galavan has nothing compared to them. I'm sorry, but he really doesn't. He's got a couple of murders, killing an enemy's loved one, threatening his own sister and niece, and trying to kill a teenager. His worst crime is unleashing Jerome onto the city. That is literally it. Jerome comes up with most of the plans, all Galavan does is give him resources and such.

And, once more, JUST Jerome and (For a non-Keep) Jervis both have literally no resources in Season 3, yet both outshine Galavan. They both sadistically murder numerous innocents, Jervis is heavily implied to have molested his sister growing up, and Jerome literally causes trhe deaths of at the least dozens with his blackout scheme.

If someone can counter these, I'll be happy to discuss. But using "He set Jerome free" as a reason to Keep him falls flat when that is literally the only noteworthy thing he does.

edited 13th Feb '17 11:00:23 AM by Ravok

WHAT A WONDERFUL DAY!
Mediawatcher Since: Dec, 2015
#77074: Feb 13th 2017 at 10:59:13 AM

[tup] deckert

edited 13th Feb '17 10:59:19 AM by Mediawatcher

GunarmDyne Since: Sep, 2010
#77075: Feb 13th 2017 at 10:59:56 AM

Looks like this guy got buried so here's a more formal re-submission:

What's the work?

Lord of Magna: Maiden Heaven is a 3DS Strategy RPG taking place on a small island where protagonist Luchs Edward runs an inn that has been in his family for generations while maintaining a promise to treat his guests as though they were family. When searching a nearby cave for some crystals to sell, he encounters a girl encased in a large crystal who breaks out to help him when monsters appear. She says her name is Charlotte (nicknamed Lottie) and declares herself an Artemisia, or daughter of God, and has six sisters. The Artemisias serve the bearer of the Lachyrima, which is the bracelet that Luchs has in his possession. While seeking to help Lottie find and awaken her sisters, the group must unravel the mystery of why monster sightings are becoming more common on their island.

Who is he?

Kaiser is the Big Bad of the game who has been seeking the Lachyrima for himself because it contains the power of God and is the one responsible for attacking the island with monsters.

What has he done?

As revealed in flashbacks, he was a benevolent ruler of his country who deeply loved his wife and snapped when she died in childbirth, forever blaming her death on his newborn son. In order to find a way to bring his wife back from the dead, he set about on a series of conquests to find a way to obtain the power of God. During this time, one of his scholars on the subject- Luchs's ancestor- was able to create a false Lachyrima that was able to grant him immortality and revive his wife's body, but she could not exist without that power and so he stepped up his conquest. As part of this, he kept his son alive in order to torment and curse him for eternity, managed to enslave the Artemisias and use them as part of his conquering army to pillage and ravage, along with killing the scholar from earlier when he tried to get Kaiser to back down, before they were sealed away due to running out of mana. Because of his immortality, his conquests lasted for centuries even without forcing the Artemisias to fight for him and one of them reveals it was an And I Must Scream situation for all of the sisters.

Redeeming Features?

One may think Even Evil Has Loved Ones comes in to play due to his wanting to fully restore his wife, but he shows that he does not care for her wishes by not allowing her request to die and instead also forces her to fight the party against her will. She ends up helping the party to defeat him just so they can be Together in Death but, by that time, Kaiser has gone off the deep end so much that he's come to lust for the power of God just for the sake of having it, no longer caring about anything or anyone else, leaving nothing but death, destruction, and heartbreak in his wake. Even as he finally dies, he clamors for the power of God and continues to curse his son.

Verdict

Other aspects are a bit spotty due to the story of the game being rushed, but everything shown in the story either as the main plot progresses or via flashbacks showcase that he had every opportunity to stand down, let go of the past, and move on. Instead, the lust for power destroyed even the love for his wife and plants him firmly as a keeper when he rejected even her wishes for his own. He doesn't start out as a Complete Monster, but clearly achieves the status by the end.


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