During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. " to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
About the Star Trek image that Clown-Face proposed: It's good, although it's a bit small.
- Any votes for the Bates Motel image should be submitted here.
- Any opinions on this image for Star Trek?
edited 6th Feb '16 5:29:29 PM by Clown-Face
Why so serious?Will throw in a yes for Amon.
I'd like to propose a rewrite for Black Doom from Shadow the Hedgehog
Complete Monster: Big Bad Black Doom, the sinister leader of the Black Arms, essentially tried to torture every living thing on the Earth by paralyzing them with nerve gas (which he got from the Black Comet). After everything had been paralyzed, he and his offspring could then come in, and devour everything on Earth. This also included Shadow, who is Black Doom's biological son note . Even Dr. Robotnik himself is also disgusted by him.
Too small. Here's my rewrite.
Complete Monster: Black Doom is the leader of the Black Arms and a completely humorless sociopath. Having visited the Earth for thousands of years, he made contact with Gerald Robotnik 50 years prior to the series. The deal was a creation using Black Doom’s cells, which would be Shadow the Hedgehog, would deliver the Chaos Emeralds so that the Black Arms can use Chaos Control to arrive on Earth and being prosperity to humanity. Gerald realized once Doom left that he was lied to, Black Doom intended to enslave the human race and use them as a food source. During the events of the game, he preaches about the evils of humanity and how they don’t deserve to be free, all while showing he has no regrets killing his own men or throwing away his “son” when everything is finished. During the game, he sends his army to kill millions, manipulated Shadow by forcing him to relive Maria’s death, destroys an entire city with the Eclipse Cannon (which also murdered most of his army) and spreads a gas that paralyzes Sonic and friends to make it easier for his offspring to eat them. Hypocritical, ruthless and uncaring to even his own, Black Doom is among the worst the world of ''Sonic the Hedgehog'' has to offer.
Added more of his crimes.
edited 6th Feb '16 7:51:06 PM by DuelMark
"Sam Manson is a terrible character."to Coyote, Amon, Casper, and Krane.
I'm hoping to get some posts in the near-future with a little more substance, but time has not, of late, been my friend, and I'm having a couple of computer problems as well. Anyway, that's all, and everybody have a good day (or night, depending on your timezone).
on Casper
Can I cut Guement?
DM, like the new Black Doom rewrite. Please put here and I'll do that w/ next week's.
edited 6th Feb '16 8:27:31 PM by ACW
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM DraftsReading that entry... yeah, I'd say cut. The guy sounds like a real Jerkass, but he only has one victim, even if it is a child.
Why so serious?We also have Hazanko.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM DraftsWhat's the heinous standard of Rose of Versailles anyways? That show would have to be really lighthearted for killing one kid to be such a standout.
Why so serious?Yeah, I get the feeling that entry confused CM with Moral Event Horizon.
Also, Starcraft, if Amon and the other are approved, THAT'S one work that probably SHOULD get its own subpage, with a softsplit for the games and the EU (ala Warcraft).
edited 6th Feb '16 8:57:29 PM by ACW
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM DraftsKrane, and the new Black Doom rewrite. Why is it that two of the three worst games in the Sonic franchise have CMs?
I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.to Krane and Casper.
Anyway I have enough votes to do a write up on Coyote:
- Daredevil: Coyote started off as a small time unnamed criminal, who volunteered for an experiment that would duplicate the powers of the Spot, a D-list teleporting Spider-Man villain. This experiment involved putting Spot into a contraption that causes him pain, in order to power the machine that gives Coyote his powers. Coyote uses his new powers to become a professional criminal contractor. He assassinates a drug lord by teleporting the blood out his body. He is hired by a Middle Eastern Warlord to open up a weapons supply route, which does by teleporting a moving truck through a blocked off tunnel, killing several of the warlord's men in the process, doing so just for kicks. Bullseye hires Coyote to mess with Daredevil, so Coyote plays mind games with Daredevil and tries to drive him insane, by teleporting his dead father's skull into his desk drawer. However Daredevil soon discovers Coyote's most depraved scheme. Coyote manages to use his powers to remove people's heads without killing them, leaving their bodies intact and able to perform tasks. Coyote kidnaps several people and removes their heads, sending out these headless bodies to be slaves. The male bodies are sent off to perform manual labor, the female bodies are sent out to be sex slaves. This process causes extreme pain to Coyote's victims. When Daredevil manages to free the slaves and Spot, Coyote's former victims want to get revenge and try to kill Coyote.
I added Coyote to Daredevil's YMMV section.
edited 7th Feb '16 1:48:02 PM by Overlord
Added it ACW
Also, for some reason Sonic the Hedgehog wasn't italicized
edited 7th Feb '16 12:59:27 AM by DuelMark
"Sam Manson is a terrible character."Speaking of Sonic the Hedgehog CM entries, I feel like Mephiles write-up could use an update:
- Complete Monster: Mephiles wanted to try and essentially eliminate Time itself, as well as the fact that he killed Sonic the Hedgehog for little reason than to make Elise cry so he could merge with Iblis and thus destroy time itself. Although Sonic got better, it's still quite the Moral Event Horizon. Its also implied that he was part of the reason why Shadow ended up sealed away by humanity as well as an unwilling Omega carrying out the deed (he had some resemblance to Shadow thanks to absorbing his shadow, so its not unreasonable that he would have done deeds that the populace will blame Shadow with), and he manipulated Silver into attempting to kill Sonic with the implied intention of destroying the past. If that's not enough, he also enjoyed the carnage he inflicted. He currently ranks highest in regards to being the most evil character in the series not only because of his motives simply being to wreck and destroy anything and everything he can for no reason other than For the Evulz at best (even Black Doom at least desired to rule over the Galaxy, and Eggman Nega also had somewhat of an excuse for his behavior: He was often ostracized and not taken seriously specifically because he was the descendant of Eggman, due to the latter's comical and bumbling nature), but also at how frighteningly close he came to succeeding in his goal to destroy everything, heavily damaging the time-space continuum.
Especially the first couple of sentences and how it repeats "destroy/eliminate Time itself". And also using most of his entry comparing him to other villains instead of focusing on his own heinousness. Anyone else agree?
edited 7th Feb '16 2:28:45 AM by JayRomeo
Give me some time and I'll rewrite.
Alright...
Sonic the Hedgehog (2006): Mephilies is the malign conscience of Big Bad Solaris taken physical form and the one responsible for arranging most of the events of the game. Accidentally created during the Solaris Project alongside the raw physical strength of Solaris (Iblis), Mephiles was sealed within a scepter that landed in the hands of Dr. Eggman. Upon breaking own, Mephiles orchestrated a gambit which involved inflicting pain and suffering on Princess Elise, causing her to cry, release the Flames of Disaster, and in doing so refuse him with Iblis to become Solaris, allowing him to obliterate reality and time at large. To do this, Mephiles manipulates Silver into attempting to kill Sonic, and later cold-bloodedly kills Sonic himself (albeit temporarily) to goad Elise into crying over him. Mephiles manipulates everyone he can for the purpose of his ultimate goal and takes a sadistic glee in watching people suffer; unlike the mindless Iblis, Mephiles is fully aware of the scale of his atrocities and does them for no other reason than to see the world decay around him. A being that craved destruction alone, Mephiles' actions heavily damaged the space-time continuum and brought a darkness to the franchise seldom seen prior.
On Sonic villains, I've got an example I might want to talk about sooner or later. And, I'll ask again, did the discussion on Erazor Djinn go anywhere?
edited 7th Feb '16 4:41:09 AM by Scraggle
Amon and Casper.
- Overlord and Scraggle: Please add Coyote and Mephiles here.
- Scraggle: I don't think the discussion on Erazor went anywhere either way. Also, who's the other example?
- Tyk: What's the third worst game? this or this? BTW, if you have hours to kill, watch those videos for hours of laughs.
I'll propose them when I'm ready.
Also, I've got a good image of Shan Yu◊ to go in Image Links.
HT, you mentioned Giselle teaming up with the heroes vs. Yhwach...didn't freaking Aizen work with them?
I'll cut that Rose of Versailles example tomorrow if there are no objections, along with Hazanko.
Is Frakes from Jumping Ship a cut or not?
edited 7th Feb '16 5:36:15 AM by ACW
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM DraftsActually, Hazanko seems heinous enough, reading his entry.
Why so serious?I think Frakes is a cut in fact.
Edit: I reread discussion on Erazor Djinn and count me as tentative .
edited 7th Feb '16 7:00:42 AM by emperors
Welcome to the world of greatest media!@ACW: Sonic Boom. Sonic Adventure is actually really good if you exclude Big's storyline and the fact that the game's extremely dated. At the very least everyone seemed to love Gamma.
edited 7th Feb '16 7:11:52 AM by Tyk5919
I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
Okay that's 10 no for Victor Krane. I'll probably get his write up done sometime tomorrow.
edited 6th Feb '16 5:20:44 PM by MGD107