During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Sure, ![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Vordenberg; is he Affably Evil or Faux though?
Also, do the following look okay?
- DC Monster (also thoughts on this suggestion?)
- Batman
- Superman (still needs a quote)
edited 2nd Oct '15 6:01:52 AM by ACW
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
ACW: Faux, when we see him he seems like a doddering giddy old man in personality, and he continuesly maintains that image even after it turns out he's evil. Only then it's paper thin, the rest of the time, his personality is almost scary with his constant preaching of Anti Vampire propaganda, and how arrogant he can be. There is a reason why I and other Carmilla fans compare him Umbridge. Hell, he is even given a in-series nickname "Vordimort".
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Possible Gundam quote:
Long Dinh, from The Prince and the Pagoda Boy
Who is he? Crown prince of Vietnam around 1000 AD, he rises to become king in a bloody and violent civil war.
What has he done? Well, that whole "bloody and violent civil war" thing? It wasn't because he had the right to the throne or anything. He's the youngest son of the old king, who specifically named one of his brothers to be the successor (because despite being the favorite, Long proved himself incompetent). Unable to accept this, he rebels. Eventually, he is forced to surrender... after which he manages to take the throne by having his brother assassinated.
This leads to his other brother (who is older and has a better claim to the throne) to start another civil war... which Long eventually wins when the film's hero and Long's childhood friend, Ly Cong Uen, convinces him to surrender. Long then murders his brother in a cell with his own two hands out of a misplaced sense of pride.
After realizing that he has no idea how to rule in peace, he decides the only workaround is to always be at war. To this end, he executes their visiting representatives.
Oh, and remember Ly Cong Uen? Long decides that he wants Uen's Love Interest. So he doesn't just decide to force himself upon her, he orders Uen to bring her to him personally, knowing full well their relationship.
Freudian Excuse or other redeeming features? The worst thing that can be said of his upbringing is that his parents supported him, possibly a bit too much. He may have a mitigating factor in that he does feel some form of affection for his mother, as when she tells him to stop what he's doing, he does hesitate to shoot his one-time friend and ally Uen. I mean, he still shoots him, but it's something. And it's telling that he doesn't kill her as he does anyone else who talks back to him.
He also seems to have some sort of twisted genuine affection for Uen. He's very upset by the guy's decision to leave his service, but still not above forcing himself on his lover or eventually shooting him.
Heinousness? Oh yes. The film's protagonist, Ly Cong Uen has undying loyalty to the king. However, after Long declares that in order to keep war going perpetually (the movie has a strong War Is Hell bent), he's going to declare war on the neighboring country of Kham and murders their representative, Uen can no longer support him and leaves. The movie makes it clear he Used to Be a Sweet Kid, but at this point is insane and has no intention on going back.
Final Verdict? Tough to say. The guy is legitimately a bit insane, and doesn't care about pretty much anyone but himself. But his mother's opinion of him matters, and the fact he hasn't killed her might count for something. As does his friendship with Uen, though in my opinion that actually makes him worse because if that's how he treats his "friends" that shows he's even worse.
Clementine from Overlord 2012
Who is she? A rogue warrior who was a high ranking warrior with the Slane Theocracy, she now works for a criminal syndicate and is one of the strongest fighters in the country.
What has he done? She starts the series off by meeting a necromancer "ally," (whom she attacks because she felt like it) about her plan to cause an undead attack on a large city for... well, because people would die. To reach this goal, she kidnaps a boy who can use magic items. In the process she hires four workers to scout his house... but winds up killing three of them For the Evulz, and makes the fourth follow her through mind control. When she does strike, she kills the Adventurers with him, even though they're so weak that they're no threat to her (or she could have simply waited for them to leave; they weren't guarding him anymore).
In combat, she tries to not kill her opponent as long as she can, keeping them alive so they can feel pain or fear.
She wears a chainmail bikini made up of the plates (essentially dogtags) of Adventurers she's killed, showing just how many she's killed, and how weird she is about it.
Freudian Excuse or other redeeming features? None whatsoever. The closest thing to a kind act she ever performs is that she has an ally. One whom she attack for no reason, and they both explicitly say they're only using each other.
Heinousness? Yep. The series' protagonist of Momonga, a Card-Carrying Villain and a Lich, which in this setting means that he's basically got an emotional dampener on (one of his favorite attacks is one that teleports a target's heart out of their chest). Yet even he is disgusted enough by her actions to kill her by very slowly crushing her to death and giving her a Breaking Speech.
Final Verdict? Yes. She's Axe-Crazy, incredibly violent, powerful, psychopathic, and utterly devoid of any good qualities.
edited 2nd Oct '15 7:09:54 AM by Larkmarn
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Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Unsure about Long, Clementine.
Leaning ![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
on Long Dinh. He seems to care about his mother in some way. Clementine
No on Long Dihn. Doesn't reach the "no redeeming qualities" marker.
Unsure about Long, but to Clementine.
How many plates make up Clementine's armor? I ask for context of how many people she has killed.
jjj
Each one of those little plates is one
. Like I said, they're roughly the size of a dogtag.
So... at the very least, a few dozen.
Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.
Messenger from another dimension.
Long and Clementine.
Clementine.
For Long, I'm leaning , but I'll give Clementine a .
So that's three votes for Vordenberg, anymore ?
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
Lizzid people!
Vordenberg.
edited 2nd Oct '15 10:29:39 AM by AustinDR
So that's four votes for Vordenberg, against no down votes which usually seals the deal for me, but I wouldn't mind a few more votes. Anyway, here's his entry.
- Carmilla the Series: Baron Vordenberg from season two is an elderly Austrian Baron who is a member of the Silas Board of Directors. When he is first introduced, he seems to be a kind and friendly man, despite his apparent disdain for vampires. Once Laura gets him voted as the Chairman of the Board, he immediately shows his true colors by ordering a detainment of all vampires and anything supernatural in Silas University. He has some of the students, including Laura's friend Danny, recruited into his militia, and preaches anti vampire propaganda. It is discovered he intends to kill Lophiiformes, all to make a name for himself despite the potential consequences, and lies to Danny that he will stop after arresting Carmilla and Mattie. After killing Lophiiformes, he intends to execute Carmilla and Mattie, along with any students protecting vampires; the attempted arrest indirectly leads to Mattie's death. After almost callously shooting one of his men, Laura starts a resistance against him. In the battle, he has Theo betray them and kill Danny. The next day, he has the other board members shot over the announcements and prepares to execute Carmilla in front of Laura's webcam, taunting them all while doing so.
Removed this entry from DEAD Tube due to no explanation, and not even going over the members individually.
- Complete Monster: Everyone in the film club turns out to be this in Chapter 6.
edited 2nd Oct '15 5:17:40 PM by Awesomekid42
EDIT: Changed my mind. Realized most of his crimes are standard Evil Overlord behaviour.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Oh my, that's a bad one.
edited 2nd Oct '15 7:09:03 PM by DemonDuckofDoom
Here's another candidate: Max "Meat Clever" Jenke from 89' Horror Show
Who is he ?/What does he do ?: A totally psychopath and sociopath Serial Killer and the sworn enemy of the cop Lucas McCarthy (Lance Henriksen). He begins the movie by kidnapping a little girl. When McCarthy and his partners come to rescue her they find out while exploring Jenke's lair that he already killed and mutilated two cops. In a gross and disturbing scene we see a human hand and a severed head in a fryer. Another head is put in a dish on a table for apparently mock effect. Jenke later chops both the arms of McCarthy's partner and leaves him to die of blood loss. He uses the little girl as a Human Shield promising to let her go if McCarthy drops the gun. Guess what ? Once McCarthy does it Jenke beheads the girl and toss McCarthy the head simply for fun. He's captured by the police but McCarthy is deeply traumatized by the event as he still suffers nightmares about Jenke.
Jenke is condamned to the electric chair. However, like Horace Pinker, once he "dies" he becomes some sort of powerful spiritual being. He starts stalking McCarthy and his family. He mind - rapes McCarthy by showing him images of his dead family. He kills the boyfriend of McCarthy by hacking him to death and frames McCarthy for the crime. He also kills an occult expert who informed McCarthy how to eliminate him. While McCarthy is in prison Jenke sexually assaults McCarthy's wife and daughter and gravely wounds the son. He taunts McCarthy that his daughter was even better than her mother. During the final confrontation he drags McCarthy and his wife in his dimension who has the resemblance of his old lair. He takes McCarthy's wife as a Human Shield in a cruel Call-Back of how he killed the little girl at the movie's beginning. When McCarthy tells him to take him instead Jenke sneers that he already got him like his family. He's finally killed by McCarthy with a gunshot after an electric shock makes him human again.
Freudian Excuse/Redeeming Traits: Hell, no.
edited 3rd Oct '15 3:24:14 AM by ST89
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
I'll guess the rape is more than just Offscreen Villainy; though. Question: You mean his daughter's boyfriend?
Yeah, I meant that, sorry. BTW the rape is onscreen but as a Rape Discretion Shot.
edited 3rd Oct '15 4:59:16 AM by ST89
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Rape Discretion Shots are enough I think. confirmed.
BTW, possible quotes.
Jenke
Jenke's an easy keep.
Coriolanus Snow was the president for at least 25 years (possibly more though this is unconfirmed), and he poisoned all the other candidates each year after he came to power. I'd say that makes him much more than a "cog in a system".
jjj