During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
That's why I added that parenthetical about Marwan for Navi's entry.
Here is the trimmed down writeup. How does it look this time?
- The Bone Collector: The Bone Collector abducts anyone in a taxi after killing the original driver, surgically removes a bone to be used as clues, and challenges Lincoln Rhyme, and Amelia Donaghy, to save them within a time limit, or else, the victims will die a horrifically cruel death. However, most of his victims never had a real chance to be saved. Victims' fates include being scorched by steam, eaten by rats, drowning, and other collateral deaths, especially during Rhyme's 2 year coma. Only a very young girl barely survived being drowned. The killer then confronts Rhyme, after killing Thelma along with Captain Cheney. Revealed to be a former forensics cop who framed six people, one which hung himself, the killer believes they were guilty scum, and his work was impeccable. After going to prison, he wants revenge on Rhyme. The killer then gleefully taunts Rhyme that he and his helper couldn't save those victims. The killer then proceeds to completely paralyze Rhyme as a living vegetable, while mocking his dreaded fate. When he failed, he settles to gut Rhyme alive, after considering other methods. Despite his six year abuse in prison, it was self-inflicted, so the Bone Collector is cold blooded, remorseless, and sadistically revenge driven.
edited 1st Jun '15 7:15:57 AM by SinisterHoodedFigure2
I'm gonna play Switzerland on the 24 debates, but for the Night's King?
Spoilers follow:
Right now, he's a no. We know nothing about the guy beyond the lore and what he's now doing. And he's got a lot of story left whereas we've seen three seasons worth of Ramsay.
A total has-been.
I hope that Game Of Thrones example was a suggestion on a character to keep an eye on rather than a serious proposal. If he was getting seriously proposed after literally last night's episode, that is a flat out violation of one of the FAQ rules.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Looks good. Could you please add it to The Bone Collector and I'll tweak it this weekend?
So, Hatred has been released. How long before we discuss?
jjj
NaNo 4328 / 50,000
Sorry; I didn't see the Lupin III suggestions becaue I don't follow this thread. I do follow locked pages, and that's where I saw it show up.
The Castle of Cagliostro's villain, Count Cagliostro, does not seem to have the necessary villainy to meet Complete Monster requirements.
Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Dozens of victims isn't heinous enough??
NaNo 4328 / 50,000
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
I'm just going by the entry. Someone who's more familiar with the work (lighty?) will have to chime in.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Ah, if that's the case, cut then.
NaNo 4328 / 50,000
I'm awfully familiar with the work. If you like, it can be watched free on Hulu. Problem is that this is a Hayao Miyazaki film, and even though Cagliostro is the most evil villain Miyazaki has used, the film still qualifies for a General Audiences rating.
Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Actually, he may not count, but the audience doesn't really matter (we have PLENTY of villains from kids works).
What about Mash and Count Luis Yu Almeida?
edited 1st Jun '15 10:28:42 AM by ACW
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
I believe both qualify, especially the latter
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
- So shall I wait a bit, then request cutting the first Count (tomorrow morning?)?
- Lighty, should I add Loki to your to-do list?
- As for Mash, how much do we see?
edited 1st Jun '15 10:40:06 AM by ACW
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
NaNo 4328 / 50,000
For Mash, I need to review the film again (and properly create the page) to give a solid answer. Offscreen Villainy is what I remember. This is why when Count LYA first came up, I wasn't trying to fight for any other Lupin III villains; there just aren't many of them that stand out as exceptionally evil, and those that do are generally offscreen. Count LYA is exceptional in that we see a stylized form of exactly what villainy he was doing.
Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
LYA seems like a clear ![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
(despite being posthumous). With Mash, if we see his attacks on the innocents, that might be enough.
I'll do a write up either today or tomorrow. I was the one who recommended Robert Doob though and I wasn't the one who did his write up.
By the way, if anybody brings up Grant Ward from Agents of SHIELD or has already, I'm ![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
on him.
edited 1st Jun '15 2:54:38 PM by futuremoviewriter
Sometimes somone will make you a writeup, but not always.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
SHF, thanks for adding Mr. Collector to the YMMV.
From what I've seen of Hatred, it seems like the no children thing is due to there not being any children rather than a standard. The only question may be whether Not Important has enough of a personality to avoid falling into GDV-dom, but otherwise he seems like he'd qualify.
I wish people would stop calling him that. If that was actually his name, he wouldn't have followed that line up with "What is important is what I'm going to do".
Anyway, how long should we wait before discussing?
jjj
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Actually, I think that's his canonical name now.
I thought the player character from Hatred was called "The Antagonist." That name is refered to several times on the main page.
Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
That wouldn't have actually stopped his name from being "Not Important".
edited 1st Jun '15 4:54:23 PM by VeryMelon
We know very little about The Night King right now. Let's wait and see how the series wraps up first before discussing him.
@ST 89: I think Ramon should stay. That whole "we'll give him a proper burial" thing to me just seemed like him not trying to completely disgrace his brother's death. But if he hadn't shot him to begin with, he'd have no reason to plan for a funeral.
I also agree with you that Navi looking worried was him just acting. The second Dina finds out what he did, his attitude changes and he becomes hostile towards her. But I still think he should be cut—not because he's not heinous enough, but because when it comes to the other villains in 24, let alone some of the Anti-Heroes, Navi's list of crimes is very low. He tries to kill his son (and later wife), and he murdered his wife's brother. Other than that, he's no different from any other named terrorist on the show.
Habib Marwan I'm still on the fence about, but I'm leaning towards![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]")
mostly because he seems like a Benevolent Boss when it comes to his men, somewhat like Colonel Stuart from Die Hard 2. There's been a few cases where he could have (and probably should have) killed a Mook for failing him. But he chooses not to and instead assists them or tries to give them a second chance to atone for their failures.
I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.