During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Bayleaf.
Sansas.
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
Borgia and son.
to Rodrigo and Cesare
It sounds like Assassin's Creed has a higher heinous standard than A Song of Ice and Fire or Game of Thrones if people like the aforementioned Cesare and Rodrigo are insufficiently heinous.
Edited by WatTambor on May 24th 2022 at 4:46:07 PM
Messenger from another dimension.
Easy no to Cesare after Lighty’s reasoning. I doubt we will find any more AC C Ms. Even ones listed are super lucky to count.
Welcome to the world of greatest media!
The Draftsman of Doom
No to Cesare.
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
Which work?
Edited by SkyCat32 on May 24th 2022 at 10:56:37 AM
No to Cesare and speaking of our dear Snake we'll have a collab coming up after a good discussion with some new keepers from a classic!
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Oh, sounds interesting.
Let's get this going. From the amazing horror classic that is Eternal Darkness and my personal favorite member of the potential Big Bads.
Who is Chattur'gha? What has he done?
The Ancient presiding over the strength of the Body and a moronic brute of a villain (but very hammy!) Should Pious accept him as his patron deity, the savage god bestows upon the evil liche the ability to crush buildings with his power. Sending forth his minion to ensure the power balance of the eldritch forces stays in his favor, the brute dispatches Pious to kill Charlemagne the Frank. After killing the emperor to cause turmoil in the world of man, Pious murders the era's Player Character when he tries to stop them.
Next up Chattur'gha takes the time to remind Pious he's nothing without his Ancient powers and sends him to kill an explorer sniffing around a ruin and discovering the means to stop their plans and later has masses of people buried alive as a sacrifice to maintain power in his godly plane. At another point in time he has another of the era's protagonists put to painful execution to snuff out another adversary. When another of main timeline protagonist Alex's ancestors steps up to stop them, Pious attempts to promise Chat he'll smash the line so hard they'll cow from the thought of ever stopping their designs to end the world at the time of planetary alignment to remind his servant he'll be killed should he not make good on his proclaimed brutality.
While Alex faces down with Pious she manages a summoning ritual that brings forth Ulyoath, Chaattur'gha's kryptonite in the Ancient's Elemental Rock-Paper-Scissors. As the psychopath tries to come forth into the real world he's faced by his fellow Ancient and killed in the fight, Pious dying to Alex shortly after.
Mitigating factors?
A hilarious thought... he's an arrogant brute of a god who's only able to tolerate Pious because some sliver of his being recognizes he himself isn't much of a planner and needs his servant who can interact with the mortal plane to plan for him and carry out the misdeeds necessary for his own summoning. No care for any of his minions and nothing indicating agency issues, just a destructive monster.
Heinousness?
Lighty and I agree that while Pious is the most "human" antagonist, nothing disqualifies the Ancients themselves seeking to bring about the apocalypse as a show of being the most powerful being in existence. Chattur'gha for his part has enough nuance in the insistence on brutality from Pious, just as his sibling beings do.
Verdict?
Eager yes.
Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II
Aye there 43. Sure to Ulyaoth below as well.
Edited by GeorgieEnkoom on May 24th 2022 at 8:28:10 PM
J’m’arrête pas tant qu’j’vois pas des lignes sur les moniteurs (Not stoppin 'til I see Flatlines)
Yes to Chattur.
The Draftsman of Doom
Yes to Chat.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Yeah sure to him.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Let's go round two!
Who is Ulyaoth? What has he done?
Presiding over the realm of the spirit, Ulyaoth is a power hungry being who wants to control every realm that exists. Should Pious pledge allegiance, he allows his servant access to knowledge of everything in the human world. During his first conversation with Pious, Ulyaoth chastises him for viewing himself an equal in their plans and demands while ordering he deal with Charlemagne.
While Chattur'gha will at least seek Pious' council, Ulyaoth just takes every moment he can to dive into Sesquipedalian Loquaciousness and basically tell his servant to shut up. Much as in the other routes, Ulyaoth has Pious go about killing the family line of their enemies, conducting mass sacrifice and using wounded soldiers in a WWI hospital to feed his power.
Fortunately, come the time of alignment Alex manages to summon his own weakness, Xel'lotath who gets empowered thanks to the heroine's own ritual and is brutally roasted by his own energy beams being deflected at him in combat.
Mitigating factors?
Nope! The biggest Smug Snake of the three and so full of himself he can't even conceive he's being played by Mantorok the whole game, assured in his own genius.
Heinousness?
Again, an apocalyptic manipulator who wants to "control" everything in existence by feeding consciousnesses to his engines, leaving them in an eternal nightmare for his own strength.
Verdict?
Yup yup.
The Draftsman of Doom
Yes to Uly.
Classy, Refined, Unstable
43s Duo
Professor Gigachad
the Eternal Darkness duo
Ultimate Moral Compass
Eternal Darkness duo. Ulyaoth was the first one I chose (what can I say, I love blue), and he’s another one for Richard Doyle (from the same game).
Sansas & the Eternal Darkness duo
I maintain Chattur'gha is my fav because his thing is getting mad and yelling a lot.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Though I gotta ask: All three of the Big Bad Duumvirate seem omnicidal; what prevents them from stepping on each other's toes?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
There are three and there’s, again, enough in the how they plan to wipe out all existence ACW.
Also, once more, not a Duumvirate. They’re potential Big Bads.
Edited by 43110 on May 24th 2022 at 12:33:21 PM
Ultimate Moral Compass
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Actually, answering my own question...
- In a world where Chattur'gha enters into our reality unchecked, his creatures run wild over the earth, turning it into a blood-soaked wasteland of flayed corpses where humanity is reduced to prey for the Ancient's creatures. Those unfortunate to be caught will be force-marched across the desert to crude execution platforms, where they get hanged and butchered in droves. Thus is what Chattur'gha has planned for humanity...to be nothing more than cattle, sating the savage appetites of its horrific creatures.
- Should Ulyaoth come to power, the human race will be taken to what can only be described as an Eternal Engine with Alien Geometries that exists in a fathomless void, bound by energy shackles to floating platforms that deliver them to surging energy furnaces. Thus is the ultimate fate of humanity under Ulyaoth...to be little more than batteries for Ulyaoth's incomprehensible machinations.
- If Xel'lotath were to emerge into our reality unchecked, humankind would be enslaved and forced to construct eerie cylindrical monoliths, each one adorned with a sinister emerald eye that seems almost alive. To make matters worse, it's implied that the construction of each monolith involves a ritual in which the slaves are forced to brutalize each other, ultimately driving themselves insane before beheading themselves...and then coming back to life, holding their severed heads and continuing to serve! Thus is the ultimate fate of humanity under Xel'lotath...to be reduced to slaves serving the insane whims of a Mad Goddess until their own sanity is lost forever.
Actually, I KNOW I'm missing something, but I'm actually a but hesitant on Chattur'gha now. Compared to being an eternal Living Battery or whatever the fuck that is with Xel'lotath, merely being slaughtered seems almost pleasant.
Edited by ACW on May 24th 2022 at 12:44:44 PM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Correct and I thank you for normalizing researching your queries 
You can dispute it if you’d like but I’m going to be fighting pretty hard to get up an omnicidal monster who wants to end all existence. I mean fighting HARD. Earnestly I think your paragraph right there should give you enough on his bloody conquest.
Edited by 43110 on May 24th 2022 at 12:46:56 PM
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]")
to Cesare, and I don't really like any of the images but the Maken-Ki ones
Absolute destiny... apeachalypse?