During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Cross-wired freak
@43110 and @Snoketrope: Right. My cut vote was indeed unnecessary. My apologies for that mistake there and if a case like this is brought up again, I will not repeat it.
Oh no need to apologize buddy, I just wanted to point out to the thread that the decision had already been made to save folks from feeling we all had to vote on something.
Based on the EP, abstain on Doc Ock.
@Cartoon It was determined he just BARELY didn't count.
Based on the EP, late ![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to the Nazgul Lord.
Edited by futuremoviewriter on Feb 21st 2022 at 12:49:50 PM
Goku Black
Btw Bright is getting an anime prequel set in Meiji Era Japan. (Thats weird. Lol).
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Oh my god, MINE.
Also, I am considering proposing a few other Advance Wars villains like Kindle, but I'm not sure they hit the heinous standard next to Von Bolt
Goku Black
Ugh do neutral eps from worst to least heinous.
The thread can decide from their.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
I'm not sure if I want to go through the effort. Von Bolt's heinousness is really, really bad
Conceding on Advance Wars having no one else. Kindle is a semi-nasty Dragon with some individual Kick the Dog moments but the overall scheme returns to Von Bolt's narcissistic, planet-killing crusade to extend his own life. There's another nasty villain named Adder who boasts of having destroyed a few towns and makes a creepy, rapey threat toward a supporting protagonist, but he genuinely gets to nothing particularly heinous onscreen, particularly when the first few Advance Wars games minimized stuff like onscreen civilian carnage compared to Days of Ruin.
Edited by Scraggle on Sep 13th 2021 at 8:42:49 AM
What is the Work? Fantasian, which is a JRPG created by Mistwalker in which you follow the adventures of Leo which of course leads to the typical plot of Saving the World.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done? Blue, who is an officer in the intelligence service of the Falcion Empire, which in the past threatened to conquer the world. He is known for being quite charismatic and lots of spies wanted to join his missions, player character Tan included. When Tan was sent on a mission to force the sovereign of Dora to surrender his country to the Empire, the sovereign capitulated and Tan let the sovereign and his family live. This was because Tan was only ordered to get them to surrender, not kill them. Blue made fun of him, saying he should have killed them even though it was unnecessary for fulfilling the Empire's aims. Leaving Tan behind, Blue then gathers a band of spies to go and burn Dora to the ground, even though it had already surrendered; but not before mocking Tan for having "not directly" killed a large number of the inhabitants of Dora.
Later, after Tan is marooned on the Nameless Island and meets Carmina, who was a member of the royal family of Dora, Blue and his team of spies land on the same island, intending to use it as a base to invade Vibra. Blue orders his team to kill anyone they find on the island, even after discovering that one of their own had crash-landed on the island. When Tan confronts them and is shrouded by Carmina's magic, Blue begins firing wildly trying to hit Tan. Blue does not stop even though he keeps missing and killing his own team members instead who scream out as they're hit one by one. He then unleashes a powerful earthquake move that levels Carmina's house and creates a massive crater on the island, though both Tan and Carmina manage to survive. Blue then uses the Stone of Control which the Empire seized from Dora to take control of one of the spirit beasts named Adolfo and only leaves when he and his remaining men are driven away by Carmina's Heroic Sacrifice.
Tan now has a grudge against Blue and hunts him down to the Volcanic Cavern in the Falcion Bypath, trying to get Adolfo back. When Tan and the party corner Blue, Blue mocks Tan about how he will be forced to kill Adolfo. When Blue sees that Adolfo is losing, he makes Adolfo berserk which Tan says could destroy Adolfo's heart. Blue says he doesn't care because Adolfo is his dog. After your party steals the Stone of Control from Blue, he makes himself berserk and is fixated solely on killing your party, undergoing a Villainous Breakdown before he is killed.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
No Freudian Excuse is given for why Blue is this way. He never exhibits any remorse or regret for his actions. You'd think he'd be loyal to the Falcion Empire, but he goes above and beyond in his evil actions and desire to kill people even where it does not serve the Empire's aims; and he's quite willing to kill his own men if it means getting a shot at someone he hates. There are a couple of times where he seems to show concern for Tan, but the narrative makes quite clear he's taunting Tan when he does that. Blue has no Pet the Dog moments and makes quite efficient use of his small time in the narrative to repeatedly do evil things.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
I think so, when you consider Blue's resources and the small amount of screentime he gets. Sure, Blue gathering a band of men to burn down a city that's already surrendered pales in comparison to Vam killing nearly every inhabitant of the Chaos Realm when he filled it full of Chaos, but the resources are not comparable: Vam is a god, while Blue is an ordinary human who is making the best use of his resources as an Imperial officer to do evil things. Unlike Vam and Jas, he never restrains himself from committing evil acts. No other human character, or character of similar means, does the things he does. He exhibits no real loyalty to either his country or his own men, and instead just uses them for the opportunity to kill as many people he can and get away with it.
Final Verdict?
I think he qualifies. Blue strikes me as being like one of those guys who joins the army just so he can kill people and get away with it. And that's what the story treats him as.
Edited by beneficii on Sep 13th 2021 at 7:56:02 AM
The Draftsman of Doom
Nazgul Lord, Rebecca, Sam, Zero, Eagle, Riku, Gratz, Loriellidere and Blue
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
Ock
Gantz, Blue, and Lorellidere the Muchkin Butcher. Gee I wonder why that was never picked up... ![[lol]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/lol2v12_4863.png "[lol]"){kind=small}
Becky, Sam, Ultraman Zero, Tsushima candidates, Henry, Lorie
Shin Megami Tensei IV
Best Smile
Blue
Thank you, I will see if I can think on a new description otherwise I'll use the same that used in the page.
I am the one, I am the one, the godlike terror train, superior artificial brain, feel free to call me Blaine
to Blue.
@43110: Thank you.
@Lightysnake: I'm willing to hear out the candidates you have in mind via an informal PM and help determine which candidates are worth an effort post.
Barb / Temporary Kylo
@Miraculous
Literally the only way I can be let down is if its just passable, something with that premise can either be suprisingly good or hilariously horrid, it has no damn excuse to be Boring.
@Unkown
Oh no worries, it was more a thread wide suggestion as it was something that bugged me.
to Blue
Sam, Zero, the Eagle, Riku, Gratz, Lorellidere and Blue. Ock.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Sure to Blue.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
From 'Ell's 'eart Oi stab at ye!
For a hot minute there I honestly thought "Rebecca/Becky" referred to a character from Ms. Marvel (2014).
Edited by MinisterOfSinister on Sep 14th 2021 at 8:46:09 PM
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Thank you.
Gentle Laborer
Blue
Welcome back to Oz! I recently discovered the existence of a P.O.V. Sequel in the form of a Novelization that is told from the sole perspective of Augustus Hill; curiously, the book also exists in-universe as Hill's secret journal. Additionally, Oz received a short film that was released only a few months ago! Anyhow, here goes the fourth and last proposal.
Who is he? Mark Miles, a shameless racist, homophobe and misogynist of extraordinary proportions, is The Friend Nobody Likes of the death row inmates throughout season 4A. An unpleseant jerkass with pale skin and silvery hair who insults everyone around him for fun, Miles spends his last days bullying his fellow inmates, particularly the only African-American in his block, Moses Deyell, taking joy in tormenting him with racial slurs; unsurprisingly, Miles is on friendly terms with the Aryan Brotherhood. Initially nothing but a cruel bully, his true and darker self is revealed when the reason why he was sent to death row is shown to the audience: Twenty years before his arrival in Oz, Miles grabbed a shotgun and shoot his own wife and son to death for no discernible reason, he then pleaded insanity and served ten years in the Connelly Institute for the criminally insane until he was, by his own admission, "cured". Good for him, right? Well, no, Miles got himself a new family and murdered them again, his second wife and two daughters, all shot to death with, you guessed it, a shotgun.
This time, however, Miles was judged mentally fit to stand trial, being convicted on three counts of murder in the first degree and sentenced to death. Something of an artist who tries to hide his cowardice behind narcissism—in his mind, Miles is on the same level as Picasso—he's "scared shitless" of his impending execution and starts painting a self-portrait on the wall of his cell to leave something of him behind after his death; when one of his many insults end with Moses punching the wall in a fit of rage and breaking his hand, Miles laughs it off as an accomplishment. After Miles has Villainous Breakdown over the thought of his execution, Moses, in one last moment of kindness for his tormentor, tries to reach out to Miles; his reaction? "I don't need your fucking sympathy, sambo". Moses, who had been digging a tunnel in the wall that separated their cells, punches a hole through the portrait, slams his head against the wall and finally strangles Miles to death, saving him from all the anxiety about his execution.
Heinous? Miles doesn't do much in death row, he only truly "shines" in the flashbacks of his crimes. The other family annihilator in the show, Snake Coyle, was responsible for killing five members of an Italian-American family—including a baby—and raping the mother's dying corpse. Miles, on the other hand, had the exact same bodycount, with the added bonus that his victims were his own families, two wives and three kids. Even Shirley Bellinger, a fellow death row inmate who drowned her daughter, called herself an "amateur" when compared to him. Yeah, I'd say being a serial invoker of Pater Familicide is unique enough for this show.
Mitigating Factors? The only one in his block to lack redeeming qualities, his thanatophobia is there to make him look pathetic, rather than pitiable.
Conclusion?
Yes to Witch, Brainiac, the Witch King, Elynion, Rebbeca, Sam, The Eagle, Zero, Riku, Grantz, Lorellidere.
No to Doc Ock and cut Kriegger.
Apparently, Amazon is going to make a live-action She-Ra show:
https://deadline.com/2021/09/she-ra-live-action-series-amazon-studios-1234832283/amp/