During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Riku and Henry Gratz.
Professor Gigachad
Henry, yeah best to just leave it.
All good, just keep in mind what doesn't work for next time.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Sure to Gratz.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Goku Black
Henry
to Henry
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
to Gantz
The Draftsman of Doom
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Henry's last name is Gratz.
Care to elaborate . . . ?
The Draftsman of Doom
- Tiger Fangs: Henry Gratz is the accomplice of the Nazi Dr. Lang who assists the latter in his plan to sabotage the rubber plantation. To this end, Gratz drugs several tigers and sets them loose on the plantation workers, resulting in several deaths, in addition to tormenting the tigers on a regular basis. When a dart is discovered by Frank Buck and his hunting party in the skin of one of the tigers, and brought to a nurse for investigation, Gratz tries to kill the nurse by releasing a leopard in her room.
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
If you watch, at the very end of the movie, I heard dialogue which could be construed as caring for Gratz. You may see something different.
Edited by SkyCat32 on Sep 13th 2021 at 6:40:56 AM
Feels good, don't it?
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
I'm curious: What's the issue with Lang?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Caesar
Moooooooving right along, with a 'Yes' to Gratz, For the first of my Oz-related posts, here's this....thing!
What's the work?
Lost in Oz is a weird, weird TV pilot that never took off into a show proper, created by David Hayter himself and telling the story of Oz years after the original story, one in which a new band of heroes must work together to save the magical land. And what's Oz without a Witch or two?
Who is Loriellidere? What has she done?
Aight so this is a bit of a weird one that obviously suffers from freaky-deaky writing, but bear with me...
When the Wicked Witch of the West seen in the original story died, her essence was transferred into a young girl, as there must always be a Witch for North, South, East and West. This new Witch, taking the name "Loriellidere", quickly established her villainy by slaughtering everyone the original host knew, namely the family of her best friend Selina.
Loriellidere went on to consolidate her magical armies and curse the land's best hope, Ozma, into being an eternal child trapped in a dangerous maze...Loriellidere then, uh, commits genocide against the Munchkins. The entire land of the Munchkins is reduced to a blasted plain of desolation, with the bones of Munchkins littering the plains. Damn.
When our heroic trio travel to rescue Ozma, Loriellidere gleefully tries to kill them all and mocks Selina over her murder of the girl's family, before Loriellidere is temporarily beaten and Ozma rescued—doomed to remain a child until our heroes go on an adventure to find a cure for her curse that we will never see because this pilot was never picked up for a proper series and goshdarntootin' if I know why!
Freudian Excuse or other redeeming features?
Ahhhhhhhhhh....no, I don't think so? The exact specifics of the "Witchly transferrence/possession" are murky, it's kind of not really made clear if Loriellidere is literally the same character as the Wicked Witch of the West from the original story, or is just the next "chosen" Wicked Witch of the West. Selina just recaps with Used to Be a Sweet Kid, "witchy curse possession" happened then enter pure evil Loriellidere.
Does it compromise agency? No, not at all. The "curse" is never delved into, so we have no idea if it's the original Wicked Witch pulling a Grand Theft Me, if the girl got Drunk on the Dark Side and willingly chose to be evil...I guess the possibility exists that she was forcibly corrupted into evil by the Witch power/curse/whatever transference, but this was a crappy pilot that never got picked up, I'm not delving too deep into things that the show itself didn't feel the need to ![[lol]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/lol2v12_4863.png "[lol]"){kind=small}
Heinousness?
It's standard villain fare mostly, with even her massacre of Selina's family and friends being Offscreen Villainy just related to us in a heavy monologue from Selina...then our heroes have to walk through a decimated wasteland, realize they're walking on tons of bones, then deduce this is the remains of the genocided Munchkins. O_O
That immediately catapults Loriellidere right over the line, and her intent to continue a bloody, destructive march on Oz is made clear.
Final Verdict?
"Ding-dong, the Witch does Keep!"
WHAT A WONDERFUL DAY!
Yes to the witch of the weird!
Ultimate Moral Compass
Loriellidere. Does Hayter make an appearance, or is he only the pilot’s writer?
Blitzy....
Given that it's a pilot, it's not a complete work. So, .
Caesar
If we didn't allow villains just because the project wasn't completed, we wouldn't have any characters from shows that were cancelled after one season, this is completely kosher.
@jackie: Nope, solely writing credits on this one, maybe he was saving his potential role for the Wizard himself later in the series?
Woagh
Yes to Lorellidere.
the witch
Yeah I'm not sure if you've gotten the chance to glance through the list of characters on the list Cyber but you'll find tons of monsters from cancelled works.
The Draftsman of Doom
Professor Gigachad
Lore, I think this is the first time I have seen a character qualify in only a pilot.
Gantz & Lori
there was Sgt. Savage and his Screaming Eagles.
Caesar
Which, again, reminds me: can we please go ahead and get Krieger cut from the Monster.GI Joe page? He's come up twice in the past year or two, most everyone agreed to cut, then he was forgotten about and the cut never happened. Let's get that done this time, any help I can offer is welcome but he's been listed way too long after being voted to be cut twice.
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]")
Ock
"No running in the halls!"