Old Magnificent Bastard thread
Welcome to the Magnificent Bastard proposal thread! This is the thread where new Magnificent Bastard examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential mitigating features will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the MB subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- If a work is already reserved by another user, please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite MB" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from other parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for MB equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, their goals and methodology, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some characters, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
How are they Magnificent?
This is the point where you highlight the character's brilliance. How to they convey their intelligence and charm to the audience? What makes them stand out among the crowd? What are their goals and how do they go about accomplishing them? This part welcomes a lot of creative thinking — not everyone has to be a Machiavellian Diabolical Mastermind to be worth considering here! This is also the time to showcase how the character can think on their feet if it's necessary.
How are they a Bastard? How are they not too bad?
What kinds of moral lines is this character willing to cross for the sake of their goal? Are they willing to let innocents die? Start wars? Commit crimes? The character has to show some kind of unscrupulousness in order to count as a "Bastard". Notably, this character does not necessarily have to be the villain, and an Anti-Hero can cross the line if they're immoral enough, but they have to be immoral somehow.
This is also the section where you then state your case for why they're not too bad. Perhaps their good intentions help mitigate their crimes. Perhaps others are shown to be much worse than them. Perhaps they're prone to Pet the Dog moments or are even fighting on behalf of loved ones. Whatever the case, there are certain lines that an MB can't cross, but as long as their villainy is reasonable for their goal, they can be considered.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Twiddler on Jan 17th 2024 at 5:40:56 AM
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to Kraven, Yuri (the Spiderman character, not the DDLC waifu or the lesbian manga genre), and Pepper.
Abstain on The Owl. Not sure if his destroying the nightmares is too bastard or not enough.
The Salesman’s Stolen Mask
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Not just the Nightmares, but the entire island, including the villagers.
Now there's some nostalgia! Loved that as a kid. From my memory I'm honestly going to go lean with a slight yeah. "Waking up" is treated as a necessary step in Link's journey and the islanders come to accept they're part of a dream but they are still sapient beings and I recall dialogue with them begging Link to promise not to forget them.
I think this is a case of Apollo Justice Phoenix Wright where while he does do bad things he's ultimately not really a bastard. Keep in mind Koholint was apparently never real to begin with and if you do a Deathless Run, Marin is spared from erasure. However, looking at it, as 43 says these were all sapient beings so I'm inclined to vote yes for now.
Edited by Klavice on Nov 3rd 2023 at 1:24:06 AM
Goku Black
the owl
Kingpin. Mm... I'm going to lean for the Owl.
The Salesman’s Stolen Mask
To be clear, most of the islanders are oblivious to the fact that they’re in a dream. However, Marin and the Nightmares are clearly sapient and the islanders are still treated as people regardless.
Is it weird for me to say that the fact Marin can survive makes me inclined to say that the Owl is indeed a Bastard? Hm. Yes to the Owl.
Edited by PolarPhantom on Nov 3rd 2023 at 2:25:42 AM
RIP Toriyama
Big Yes to Pepper, Veeva and Kingpin!
Gonna reserve Blue Eye Samurai, btw.
Edited by Ravok on Nov 3rd 2023 at 3:54:05 AM
Tonight I dine on monkey soup.
Hiya. It's been a while!
Talked with Miraculous about splitting up the Moriarty the Patriot candidates, so here's one I'm taking over.
The Work
Moriarty the Patriot is a (very loose) retelling of the Sherlock Holmes stories combined with James Bond set in the late 1800s, focused on Professor James Moriarty and exploring his motivations.
The Character
This post is to open a discussion specifically on Albert James Moriarty, older brother of Professor Moriarty (who we already confirmed) and one the Professor's Co-Dragons. Albert is the original "Moriarty" family member biologically who took the other two in as children, and is the leader of MI6 for most of the series.
Why Is He a Bastard
I mean, he kills his own younger biological brother and his mother by hand and then arranged for the entire rest of his family and servants to die in their sleep in a fire. So like. Is that enough?
He also took two orphan kids in, then basically said, "Hey, in exchange for getting your little brother heart surgery he needed to live, help me murder like so many people. Kthx."
He tends to come off colder than either of his brothers, which is sort of impressive since they're all murderers.
I like Albert, but he's certainly a bastard.
But Not That Bad?
Much like his brothers, Albert is trying in a very fucked up way to improve society by murdering people he thinks are making society worse. He is...trying to help in a Pay Evil unto Evil sort of way.
Honestly, Albert is the Moriarty brother who gets the least amount of sympathy from fans, although this shifted a fair amount after it was revealed he has severely untreated OCD, which is a massive contributing factor to his need to eliminate the hypocrisies of all these abusive nobles who keep going to Christian churches. But it's not like most people with OCD are murderers, so there's a limit to how far this Freudian Excuse is going to take him.
Is He Charming/Magnificent
Albert is, according to an official Japanese fan poll, the second most popular character in the series (second to the protagonist of the series, who won by a landslide). This seems to track from the interactions I've had with people. So people are charmed by him.
Albert is also in the series pretty much assigned to "socialization" on behalf of everyone else. He doesn't seem to really like it very much, but he gets along with people rather well. According to his official character profile, he's still getting asked out and courted even after losing his title and going to prison for the murderers, so apparently people are really into him.
He also has a similar flair for the dramatic to his younger brother. This is absolutely a man who is going to revel in elaborate schemes and acting a part. While he often asks his brother to arrange details and plans, he always shows up to convince people that he's just so worried about his kidnapped brother, please help him, and oh, gasp, people have died, how tragic.
But Is He Brilliant?
This, I think, is a key factor in Albert's case here: Most of William's subordinates are very subordinate to him. It's made clear that William expects all of his crew to be able to think and plan for themselves and make their own decisions, but the series doesn't always take time to show that off for everyone. Albert does get that time.
Albert often sees opportunities before he engages William for a plan to make it work. Manipulating Mycroft Holmes into getting MI6 created so he could lead it was Albert's idea, and he executed the plan (and he leads MI6 when it's not doing Lord of Crime business), even if William came up with many of the details to help him out. Albert is the one who sees the potential in Adam Whitley and brings the topic up to William.
Also, Albert was the first person to bring William's dreams of killing nobles and creating a brighter world into fruition and set it into a tangible, real path. He and William are frequently tagged as the only two who originated the entire plan.
Albert is a brilliant opportunist and an excellent man to have making sure everything goes off without a hitch, even if the details of getting things done aren't really his forte.
He's brilliant.
What About His Competition?
Most of the nemeses in the series are focused on William, and Albert is his subordinate. Basically none of Sherlock or Milverton's attention ever splashes Albert's way. The person he really engages with in a competitive dance with is...Mycroft Holmes. And while Albert doesn't exactly win, neither does he lose to Mycroft. They come to a couple of agreements and passes to work together and watch to make sure the other isn't getting in their way.
Verdict:
Yes.
Not the Eye
Easy to Albert
The Salesman’s Stolen Mask
Sounds like Albert is a
The wifi here sucks
Yes to the Owl and Albert
Here's Fiona. I'm feeling sick today so Ganon will probably have to wait till tomorrow.
- Thunderball: The beautiful seductress Fiona Volpe is a dangerous SPECTRE Agent assigned to aid Emilio Largo in his plan to steal two nukes and hold the world hostage. Volpe seduces a French pilot and helps Angelo Palazzi murder and impersonate him, negotiating a deal when Palazzi demands higher pay for his services. Volpe later executes the incompetent Count Lippe with a missile loaded motorbike. While investigating Bond, Volpe captures his ally Paula, before seducing and capturing Bond, mocking his attempt to seduce her in turn. After a stroke of luck allows Bond to escape her clutches, Volpe is able to follow the blood trail left behind by the injured agent and corners him in a club, an encounter that results in his near death.
to Veeva Dash, the Owl and Albert Moriarty.
Goku Black
Albert Moriarty
I hate spoilers
Here's my write-up of Whitson, I'm about to be out until I finish SM2 (which won't be for a long time, I suspect).
Whitson is a criminal from a long family line of assistants who've served detectives in the past. He conspires with Madame Goldiga to murder her husband Lord Gulliver for his fortune, using a hidden passageway that no one was able to find quickly enough. When Argent Heinkel and Konoe Kikyo investigate the murder, Whitson lures one of them into a trap and impersonates them, fooling almost everyone who was familiar with them. Despite failing in his goal of deterring aspiring detective Sholmes from his desired career, Whitson manages to escape justice, clashing several times with Sholmes in the future.
Everyone look at my sandbox
The Salesman’s Stolen Mask
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
Noted. Sorry.
Edited by Remnant43 on Nov 4th 2023 at 1:15:48 PM
Balls idk
Yes to Albert but the new process involves waiting three days after doing an EP before posting the writeup to ensure we've got proper consensus, for the Owl there.
Is having a panic attack disqualifying? I have a character I am not quite sure about.
Buzz
Who is the character?
Lies and Violence!
the Owl and Albert.
What's the work?
Invincible is a popular comic series by Robert Kirkman, centered around Mark Grayson, the alien son of the superhero Omni-Man who must take up his father's role when he suddenly reveals himself as an intergalactic conqueror.
However, Mark very quickly gets disillusioned with the enforcement of the status quo that comes with being a traditional hero, and soon begins desiring to do more to help the world. Unfortunately, Mark's decision coincides with the emergence of a villain who fits his ideals a little too well.
Who is Dinosaurus?
A super-intelligent, cyborg were-dinosaur that resides as a split-personality within the mind of a man named David Anders, Dinosaurus is first introduced trying to level a city... for the good of all mankind. When Invincible confronts him, he goes on a rant about how the destruction will ultimately be beneficial: the sheer loss of life will stave off overpopulation and climate change, while the reconstruction efforts will employ millions and create an unprecedented era of prosperity.
Mark, of course, just punches him into submission.
Dinosaurus' next appearance is more impactful. Breaking out of prison, he confronts Invincible again in Las Vegas, having set up bombs throughout the city—including several decoys for Mark to waste time finding—in order to reduce everything in the surrounding area into a massive sheet of glass. He predicts that said area will be used for a massive, highly advanced solar array bigger than any other in the world, providing unheard of levels of green energy. Though Dinosaurus tries to help evacuate as many civilians as he can, he ultimately refuses to deviate from his plan, and the bombs go off.
...And, sure enough, the resulting ruins are used sometime later to build the solar array, like Dinosaurus predicted. Mark, going through the aforementioned disillusionment with the status quo, realizes that Dinosaurus isn't pure evil, but pure intelligence. And if he had a minder to keep a lid on all the mass-murder, then his plans could very well save the human race from causing its own destruction. Mark breaks Dinosaurus out of prison again, and he agrees to the hero's proposal to work together.
The two proceed to make a surprisingly decent team and become friends of sorts, conducting humanitarian efforts around the globe. Of course, no good thing lasts forever for a superhero. Mark falls ill to some alien virus, forcing him to seek medical aid from Thragg, the resident Big Bad of the series and warmongering alien overlord of Omni-Man's race. Thragg only wants to help Mark to get brownie points with the people of Earth, so Dinosaurus convinces Thragg to let him on board so he can apply his own genius to curing Mark. And, while there, Dinosaurus secretly hacks into the ship and steals whatever information he can from them, whether it be schematics to the ship or advanced alien technologies.
The schematics turn out to be particularly useful when Thragg learns Omni-Man and Mark are the true heirs to their people's throne. He moves to kill Mark, but Dinosaurus distracts Thragg with bombs he's placed all throughout the ship. Thragg grievously injures Dinosaurus, but he nonetheless manages to drag Mark to an escape pod and flee back to Earth. ...Where Mark learns that the virus has temporarily stripped him of his powers. And as he recuperates, Dinosaurus has no one to monitor him.
Dinosaurus, during this time, concludes that humanity is reaching the tipping point. Unless something is done right now, climate change will be irreversible. And unfortunately for humanity, Dinosaurus remains a strong believer of the needs of the many outweighing the needs of a few... and compared to the billions and trillions to come in future generations, "a few" in his mind equates to millions. He proceeds to set up earthquake machines in Los Angeles in order to level the city... as a mere distraction to his true plan. Blowing up the ice caps, causing massive floods and a rise in the sea level that wipes out thousands of cities across the globe.
Mark, at this point in time, has regained his powers and angrily tries to kill Dinosaurus, but Dinosaurus overpowers him and, using the technology stolen from Thragg, teleports him away. He proceeds to bring out a clone of Mark he created with Thragg's tech and kills it in front of a news crew, faking his death to the entire world. The real Mark is put into a coma while Dinosaurus telepathically communes with him, trying to convince his "friend" to join his crusade to bring about true change now that he doesn't need to worry about upholding his reputation.
Of course, Mark refuses, but also proceeds to methodically tear down all of Dinosaurus' arguments. He thinks he's bringing about change, but humanity, for all its faults, was already working on green technology and ways to heal the planet. The sheer amount of death he wants to cause will set back all of that progress, and though threats like climate change and global warming may also be staved off in the process? That's not advancement, that's just delaying the problem.
Dinosaurus takes a minute to reflect before freeing Mark, agreeing to his logic and acknowledging that his ego blinded him to the errors of what he was doing. But he knows what he is deep down inside: pure, unchecked intelligence that refuses to be restrained. And he knows it's ultimately only a matter of time before he slides back into his old ways, committing horrors that he believes are for the greater good. With that, he asks Mark to kill him, stoically submitting to what must be done to keep humanity safe.
Mitigating factors?
Dinosaurus is possibly my favorite character in the entire comic. He's a badass, brilliant were-dinosaur who goes from being a one-off gag to one of Mark's most personal allies/enemies, and is nigh-unbeatable after his first appearance, remaining affable even as he outwits everyone over and over again. His plans, while monstrous, are always aimed at saving humanity, and even after he realizes his ego is driving him, he remains genuine in his desire to do good and immediately chooses to end himself rather than risking further harm to the planet.
It's going to be a while, but I cannot wait for the show to get to this guy.
Edited by EmeraldEmperor on Nov 4th 2023 at 3:14:18 PM
Not the Eye
Dinosaurus
Goku Black
Dinosaurus
Now then… last one, I promise. This is just another one that I can’t get out of my head.
What’s the Work?
The Legend of Zelda: Link's Awakening is a 1993 action-adventure game for the Game Boy (which was ported to the Game Boy Color in 1998 before being remade entirely for the Nintendo Switch in 2019) and the fourth installment of The Legend of Zelda series.
It follows Link, who after the events of A Link to the Past, set out to sail the ocean and train for future adventures. Unfortunately, he gets struck by lightning and washes up on the mysterious Koholint Island, where he is rescued by a little girl named Marin (who looks a lot like Princess Zelda). Link is then tasked by an equally-mysterious talking Owl to find seven instruments and awaken the Wind Fish, a giant whale sleeping in an egg at the peak of the island, in order to escape.
Oh, SPOILERS for this 30-year-old game, I guess, since this character is a Walking Spoiler, though most of y’all probably already know its major twist even if you haven’t played it.
Who Is the Owl? What Has He Done?
The Owl initially seems to be your standard Exposition Fairy, especially for those who have already played Ocarina of Time and gotten used to the ramblings of Kaepora Gaebora. However, the Owl is bit less talkative and a lot more vague; he tells Link exactly where he needs to go and that he needs to awaken the Wind Fish to escape the island, but never tells him why or how that will help.
The Owl drops in before and after every dungeon, guiding Link towards his next destination to collect eight magical instruments. Prior to the sixth (or possibly before if you’re a fan of Sequence Breaking) dungeon, the Owl instructs Link to head to the ancient ruins in the southeast portion of the island. There, Link collects the key to the real Face Shrine and discovers a plaque that informs him of The Reveal: Koholint Island is All Just a Dream conjured up by the sleeping Wind Fish, and awakening him will cause the island and all of its inhabitants to disappear. When Link exits, the Owl flies down and reassures the boy that the message is just "a rumor", telling him that he can only know for sure by waking the Wind Fish himself and escaping.
From then on, the Owl continues as usual, pushing Link further and further through the dungeons with greater urgency until he finally collects all the instruments. The Owl then tells Link to play the "Ballad of the Wind Fish" in front of the egg, which cracks it open and allows him inside. There, Link defeats the Nightmares’ leader, DethI, and reaches the core of the Wind Fish's mind.
The Owl appears and informs Link of his true nature: he is the guardian and overseer of the Wind Fish's dream world. However, he was powerless to stop the Nightmares from invading the deity's dreams and threatening his subconscious. Upon discovering Link, an outsider with the spirit of a hero, the Owl began using him to collect the instruments in order to awaken the Wind Fish and put an end to the Nightmares, while concealing the true consequences of what that would bring for the island’s inhabitants to keep the hero moving. The Owl thanks Link before vanishing forever, along with the rest of the island as the Wind Fish awakens.
Is He a Bastard? Too much?
This is ultimately the make-or-break aspect for the Owl's qualification. The Owl isn’t evil by any stretch of the imagination, but his actions are certainly morally dubious and downright manipulative. He lies to Link about the nature of the island and continues to push him forward in spite of it. Likewise, the game itself treats waking the Wind Fish as a morally dubious action it itself: is it right to wipe out everyone on the island— many of whom have grown to trust and appreciate Link— in order to escape? It’s not as simple as “they’re not real anyway”, either; Marin is implied to be fully sapient, with her being able to question where the island came from and imagine leaving it all behind, which further muddies the morality of the situation and implies that the islanders may be capable of independent thought. The Owl himself is aware of all of this, and knows of the consequences, yet continues to push Link forward regardless.
As for too much? Absolutely not. He’s ultimately just fulfilling his purpose by ridding the Wind Fish's mind of the demonic Nightmares by any means necessary, even if it means destroying the dream world and everyone in it.
Is He Magnificent?
Yeah. He manages to manipulate both Link and likely even the player into thinking of him as nothing but a trustworthy mentor, all while being fully aware of and concealing the truth about the island and getting Link to the slay all of the Nightmares. Despite his deceptive nature, he’s still a Nice Guy who is never anything but polite to Link and even thanks him at the end.
Verdict?
I lean![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]")
, but this is admittedly a very morally-gray character and it ultimately comes down to whether y’all think he’s bastardly enough by encouraging Link to erase Koholint Island and its inhabitants and lying about its true nature.
Edited by Remnant43 on Nov 6th 2023 at 9:09:27 AM
Balls idk