Old Magnificent Bastard thread
Welcome to the Magnificent Bastard proposal thread! This is the thread where new Magnificent Bastard examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential mitigating features will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the MB subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- If a work is already reserved by another user, please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite MB" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from other parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for MB equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, their goals and methodology, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some characters, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
How are they Magnificent?
This is the point where you highlight the character's brilliance. How to they convey their intelligence and charm to the audience? What makes them stand out among the crowd? What are their goals and how do they go about accomplishing them? This part welcomes a lot of creative thinking — not everyone has to be a Machiavellian Diabolical Mastermind to be worth considering here! This is also the time to showcase how the character can think on their feet if it's necessary.
How are they a Bastard? How are they not too bad?
What kinds of moral lines is this character willing to cross for the sake of their goal? Are they willing to let innocents die? Start wars? Commit crimes? The character has to show some kind of unscrupulousness in order to count as a "Bastard". Notably, this character does not necessarily have to be the villain, and an Anti-Hero can cross the line if they're immoral enough, but they have to be immoral somehow.
This is also the section where you then state your case for why they're not too bad. Perhaps their good intentions help mitigate their crimes. Perhaps others are shown to be much worse than them. Perhaps they're prone to Pet the Dog moments or are even fighting on behalf of loved ones. Whatever the case, there are certain lines that an MB can't cross, but as long as their villainy is reasonable for their goal, they can be considered.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Twiddler on Jan 17th 2024 at 5:40:56 AM
Rewriting reality so you're married to your childhood sweetheart is too fantastic a thing for me to consider it a consent issue. I could see it being a problem if the narrative brings attention to it, but by all appearances that's not what the novel is doing.
My bigger concern is if this character has any appearances is any other novels as you stated, or is it standalone?
Even with that caveat ![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Thinker for now.
Yuuka.
Edited by jjjj2 on Apr 23rd 2023 at 4:57:51 AM
You can only write so much in your forum signature. It's not fair that I want to write a piece of writing yet it will cut me off in the mid
What is the work?
Nine Dead is a little thriller about nine people who are kidnapped and locked in a room by a mysterious captor and told they will have to figure out why they are there. Every 10 minutes, he will execute a random person.
Who is the captor? What has he done?
The masked captor (credited as "Shooter", but we don't learn his full name) is the mysterious man behind the plot. After seeing his son Wade falsely imprisoned for a liquor store robbery and losing him to AIDS at 22 years old after Wade was the victim of Prison Rape, he starts plotting revenge against the people he holds responsible for Wade's death. He tracks them all down and spies on them for nearly 2 years before making his move to kidnap them all one by one in a single night, knocking them out with a taser, blindfolding and gagging them, and handcuffing them to a circle of lead poles in a locked room in an Abandoned Warehouse. After explaining the rules, he lets the captives argue amongst themselves, only returning every 10 minutes to shoot one of them and drag the body outside. He also promises that when they figure it out and admit their guilt, he will release the survivors and turn himself in.
One of the captives, Leon, manages to escape by having one of the other captives break his hand so he can slip the cuffs and briefly overpowers the captor, but it turns out he already planned for this and the automatic pistol that Leon managed to wrestle out of his hands is empty except for the one bullet that was fired into the wall during the struggle. He presents a revolver which he uses to gutshoot Leon and drags him back into the room, informing him that he's been moved to the front of the queue so he doesn't bleed out first. One of the captives also sacrifices himself to save another by jumping into the firing line, which throws the captor for a loop, but he sticks to his rule of one person every 10 minutes when this is pointed out to him.
Ultimately, after the last 3 people figure out everybody's role in Wade's death, he pulls off his mask and is ready to give himself up, claiming that the police are on their way. However, the captive Kelly steals his revolver and shoots the two other survivors and the captor in an attempt to keep her dirty secrets hidden (she's a prosecutor who faked evidence to convict Wade of the liquor story robbery when he was just in the wrong place at the wrong time). The captor assures her that he never lost control and has been filming all of them the whole time and broadcasting a live feed. No matter what she does, everybody knows who the real Kelly is now. Kelly attempts to make a break for it, the end.
Magnificent?
The entire scheme goes according to plan, even if he does suffer some setbacks. He didn't expect Leon to escape or for Kelly to go on a pointless killing spree that implicates her, but he already planned to turn himself in anyway, acknowledging that his life is over.
It does need to be said that somehow the captor is strangely omniscient when it comes to the captives' dirty secrets. They attempt to Hand Wave this with the "This took me 2 years of planning" line, but some of it just strains credulity. While it's certainly plausible that he could track down the child molester who raped his 20-year old son in San Quentin, especially if he had police connections, the narrative somehow assumes that, say, he randomly knows about some punk walking into a confessional booth in the San Fernando valley and is able to overhear the contents of the conversation. I do not think it's to the point of making him a Villain Sue (as I said, he does suffer some setbacks), but it's annoying nonetheless.
Bastard?
Well, yeah, he kidnaps 9 people and commits several murders. While his motives are understandable, the people he chooses to target range from a pedophile who raped his son in prison and the drug dealer who really committed the robbery as well as a priest who heard the robber's confession, an insurance investigator who rejected an application for an experimental drug treatment, and a police detective who was unknowingly manipulated by Kelly.
Aside from Coogan the pedophile and the drug dealer robber, two more of the people he kidnapped are remorseless career criminals: Sully, a violent mafia Loan Shark and pimp from Las Vegas who firebombed a house and killed an old man and his grandkids; and Leon, a Gangbanger and home invader who killed his own brother over a cash dispute. However, he's targeting them for what they did to Wade (Sully borrowed money to the real robber, and Leon sold him the gun to commit the deed), not their other crimes, which are several magnitudes worse. Sully even tells him to go fuck himself and boasts that he regrets none of his crimes, which disappoints the captor, who tells Sully he could have died with some humanity or forgiveness. He is also pissed off when Kelly tries to use the I Have a Family line as a reason as to why he should release her, knowing that she's truthfully a neglectful parent.
Conclusion?
Sure, why not. The movie paints him as a Papa Wolf who was wronged and does something terrible to at least enact some justice on the people he holds responsible.
Edited by Morgenthaler on Apr 23rd 2023 at 2:29:48 AM
You've got roaming bands of armed, aggressive, tyrannical plumbers coming to your door, saying "Use our service, or else!"
Goku Black
The captor / shooter
Does Coogan count as a CM?
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
The Captor.
We have definitely approved candidates where the plot goes right for them, where it would fall apart by fridge logic otherwise. Zemo from Civil War comes to mind.
Edited by jjjj2 on Apr 23rd 2023 at 5:06:35 AM
You can only write so much in your forum signature. It's not fair that I want to write a piece of writing yet it will cut me off in the mid
Not the Eye
to the captor
Lies and Violence!
Stone, Yuuka, the Mad Thinker, and the captor. Preemptive for the grandma once that gets reproposed.
What's the work?
Whistle: A New Gotham City Hero is a graphic novel about... well, Whistle, a new Gotham city hero. Willow Zimmerman is an average teenager and activist protesting against... you know, all the usual problems in the hellscape that is Gotham. On top of all this, she has to take care of her mother, who is slowly dying of brain cancer. However, her fortunes soon take a turn for the better when she reconnects with an old family friend, a totally normal, in no way whatsoever evil guy by the name of E. Nigma. What follows is a weirdly heartwarming tale of Willow taking care of her family, making a career for herself, and also becoming a superhero, aided/vexed along the way by notorious criminal the Riddler and his fellow villains.
Speaking of!
Who are the Riddler and Poison Ivy?
Nigma, born Eddie Nachtberger, was Willow's mom's best friend growing up, a brilliant if eccentric riddle-maker. Unfortunately, in college, their relationship turned sour—Nigma turned to drugs and partying, leeching off her for money and dropping out of school. Oh, and he also became an infamous supervillain, but no one ever learned his true identity. Eventually, Willow's mom cut off contact, and Nigma decided to get his act together. Finally getting sober, he started up his own casinos to fund his criminal enterprise, began hosting underground poker nights with several high-profile Gotham officials, and planned to rebuild Gotham with the help of his new partner.
Pammie Isely was once a party girl who got taken advantage of in a manipulative relationship, which saw her subjected to tortuous experiments. Said experiments left her with plant powers and an incurable poison kiss, which she promptly used to murder her partner. Taking a new outlook on life that valued plants more than people, she got a degree in plant biology and began working with Nigma. Using her powers, she would cover notable Gotham community centers—churches, restaurants, mosques, parks, libraries, whatever—with entire jungles. This "greening" drives down property prices in the surrounding area for Nigma to buy up the real estate, allowing him to rebuild and renovate the hellscape that is Gotham, while Ivy gets her own plot of land to begin planning her "green revolution."
Partway through this plot, Nigma tries to reconcile with the Zimmerman family, beginning with Willow since she holds less of a grudge. In a complete coincidence, Ivy meets Willow at a protest. The two quickly prove to be good friends, providing funds for Willow to pay for her mom's chemo, rent, etc. Eventually, they invite her to Nigma's poker games, and hire her to be their new "game runner"—the person who organizes catering, plans locations, keeps track of money, etc. The previous one got eaten by Killer Croc.
It's morally dubious, yeah, but the money is really goddamn useful for, you know, health insurance and basic necessities and stuff. Willow accepts the offer and Ivy shows her the ropes, training her on the style of cloths and attitude needed to get on customers' good sides and rake in tips. Oh, and they also make sure to keep her on the right track with her education, showing her around Gotham University and encouraging her to not drop out like Nigma did.
However, during one of their greenings, Ivy finds Willow, who has been attacked and injured by Killer Croc. She calls an ambulance and, when she's recovered, reveals her identity while Nigma explains his plan. Willow's still onboard with working for them—A) She still needs to support her mom, and B) They're just very nice, it's hard to say no—but letting them continue to plan unimpeded? Eh... no. Because of shut up, Croc's attack left Willow with dog powers—she can talk to dogs, has enhanced hearing/smell, etc. I think it had something to do with Ivy's nearby greening messing with her biology? It makes more sense in the book.
Anyway, Willow begins using her powers to spy on Nigma and Ivy's meetings, learning of their next targets ahead of time. The two have used their connections to finally get Croc arrested, and now plan to finish driving out the remaining businesses who won't sell. Ivy changes her attacks to occur at five in the morning so she doesn't risk getting caught in broad daylight from the growing police attention, only to be confronted by a strange customed teenager calling herself "Whistle."
...And Ivy pretty quickly defeats her, ambushing her with living plant traps. Riddler orders her to kill their new annoyance—they were both hoping to avoid any murder, but superheroes getting involved always ends badly, so best to just get it over with. Fortunately, Whistle summons an army of dogs to attack them. She allows Nigma to escape with a warning to leave the town alone, while Ivy gets knocked out and picked up by police who have come to investigate the greening—though she's able to easily talk her way out, even later delivering a book on herbal blends to help with the cancer treatment.
And... that's where it ends. Total And the Adventure Continues—Nigma and Ivy have been warned off and remain oblivious to Whistle's identity, but are still free to continue criminal enterprises. Willow leads a triple life as a normal teenage girl, a superhero, and Nigma's employee—they may be villains, but they're genuinely nice and fully willing to support her, so turning them in feels wrong. Her mom's health is on the rebound, they've even managed to get the tumor out with Nigma's money, and she's finally willing to reconnect with him.
There will probably be some morally grey problems and conflicting feelings in the future, but for now? Things are looking up for everyone.
Are they magnificent?
For villains in a short graphic novel, they have more than enough under their belts. Nigma is the ever-affable mastermind behind the entire plot, with several avenues of funding and resources arranged through his casinos and poker games to secure his total takeover of the city. By the time Willow starts actively planning against them, he's pretty much already taken over the entire downtown area, save a few holdout businesses. Ivy doesn't have as much, but she's nonetheless presented as a similarly charismatic, experienced supervillain. She's clever with organizing her attacks to avoid any interference, is able to talk her way (admittedly offscreen) out of getting caught red-handed, and mentors Willow in becoming a charismatic, money-making pro in her own right.
Now, the two do ultimately remain oblivious to the fact that their new nemesis is their very own employee, but I think their prior intelligence/charisma helps severely maintain their magnificence, especially when they remain free and still very successful at the end.
Also, the DC wiki states these are the mainline versions of the character, but there are way too many continuity errors for the Riddler's backstory for that to be true. Plus, Beast Boy's here as a normal, non-powered kid. The DC wiki is not very reliable, I've come to find.
Are they bastards?
I've always been a sucker for friendly rogues, so I really like this comic. The Riddler and Ivy are undeniably villains—even if it's with genuinely good intentions to make the place better for everyone, even if it's the one city on earth so horrible that it makes Australia "where everything wants to kill you" look hospitable in comparison, gentrification is still gentrification. But despite this, they go as far out of their way as possible to be sincerely kind and considerate. They help out Willow with no strings attached, they specifically avoid killing anyone in their attacks—Nigma states he "feels like crap" ordering Whistle's death—and even after learning their true identities Willow can't bring herself to cut contact due to just how supportive they've been to her.
Edited by EmeraldEmperor on Apr 23rd 2023 at 6:25:43 AM
Goku Black
Riddler and poison ivy
Re: Coogan as a CM: Maybe. My main issue is that so much of it is Offstage Villainy. Other than a few of the Shooter's kidnappings in the intro, everything takes place in this one warehouse, so we don't even see Coogan in the presence of a child.
They use a Rape Discretion Shot to show him walking into the showers with Wade, not sure if that's enough by itself to establish a pattern. He's an Asshole Victim, certainly. He fucking boasts that he only did a bit for grand theft auto because they "couldn't find a body".
Other than him, none of the other guys here could count. Either they don't stand out or they feel some genuine remorse for their crimes.
Edited by Morgenthaler on Apr 23rd 2023 at 2:21:01 AM
You've got roaming bands of armed, aggressive, tyrannical plumbers coming to your door, saying "Use our service, or else!"
Not the Eye
to Ridler and Poison Ivy
Yes to the captor, Riddler and Poison Ivy!
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Honestly if they use a discretion shot, his father's whole plot against him is based on his son's rape and he notes a pattern, I think you've got a case!
Edited by 43110 on Apr 23rd 2023 at 5:41:36 AM
Yes to Riddler, Poison Ivy, the captor and Yuuka.
@ jjjj2, I have read many of the 2000s era Marvel novels and proposed many characters from the 2000s era novels in the old CM and MB threads. The Thinker has not appeared in any of the 2000s era novels I read and I am confident this is only appearance in this novel series.
Alright thanks for clarification Overlord, more solid Thinker.
Pamela and Riddler.
Riddler and Poison Ivy.
Edited by Echidna on Apr 23rd 2023 at 6:48:09 AM
Shin Megami Tensei IV
Riddler and Poison Ivy
Sorry, I did post my other EP without noticing that there were enough E Ps in that page. I can post it now or not?
Watch me destroying my country
Yes you can post it now Kazuya, there are only 2 EPs on the page.
You can only write so much in your forum signature. It's not fair that I want to write a piece of writing yet it will cut me off in the mid
Shin Megami Tensei IV
Well...I'm rusty here but I found someone who I think counts. Of the Anti-Hero variant.
Setting?
Sayuri is a manga following the tragedy of the Kamiki family, whose members are haunted by a mysterious curse in their new house that slowly claims the lives of its new inhabitants, ultimately leaving only two survivors, the protagonist Norio and his usually senile Grandma.
The old lady decides that this is too much. She was broken for the death of her son but the death of her husband makes her recover her vitality to ensure the survival of his grandson at any cost.
Who is Grandma?
The grandma of the Kamiki family. She is initially portrayed as a innocent senile woman whose senses have been dulled for her age. However, the loss of her family (and the haunting from the ghost) make her recover her senses and vitality.
Grandma notices the patron behind the deaths of her family. They all became depressed before finally biting the dust while the small moments of joy between each new tragedy actually helped to extend the time between incidents. With this information, Grandmpa openly defies the spirit haunting her house by living.
She makes Norio to live a healthy life style while she forces herself to be more active to take care of him. This actually works pretty well to stall the curse for a while.
Noticing her husband's late obsession with digging, Grandma decides to dig the garden of her house to find the corpse of a young girl, the titular Sayuri.
Following this discovery, Sayuri appears to the family with Grandma's resisting her influence by openly defying her and calling Sayuri to be nothing more than a pathetic spirit that doesn't even deserve their hatred.
Forcing Norio to return to school so he could experience normality and develop healthy bonds after the tragedy, Grandma allows herself to mourn before investigating Sayuri's dissapareance and tracking her family.
Norio stays in the house to continue defying the spirit while Grandma starts a travel to find Sayuri's family. Norio manages to survive thanks to both his own willpower and the arrival of his Love Interest, giving him enough emotional fortress to continue living.
Grandma locates Sayuri's family and...outright kidnaps them, including their daughter and Sayuri's younger sister.
The Reveal is that Sayuri was killed for her own family during a fight. In life, Sayuri was a hostile and agressive Hikkikomori that was beating her own mother for asking her to return to school as well as abusing her younger sister. The fight escalated and Sayuri died killed for her own family.
Eventually Norio is kidnapped by Sayuri's spirit and Grandma has to save him. Taking Sayuri's family to their old house, Grandma forces them to confess their crime by torturing them, breaking their fingers, stabbings and beating them until they confess after she was ready to strangle Sayuri's father and threatened to kill their daughter.
Grandma is very open that she considers them to be the real responsibles for the deaths of her familiars as well as despicable people on itself for killing their own family and not even giving her a proper burial.
The eventual confessions of Sayuri's family actually calm the spirit, who returns the dissapeared bodies of some of the family members and eventually Norio and his girlfriend.
When Norio grabs a weapon to kill Sayuri's father in revenge for his family, Grandmpa stops him saying that he doesn't have to stain his pure soul as she is sacrificing herself to ensure he doesn't have to be like her.
Sayuri's spirit manifest herself and Grandma delivers her a massive Breaking Speech, criticizing her for killing her family to take revenge for what her family did to her and pointing that Sayuri was a pathetic spirit who hated familiar love itself despite still longing for it.
This, alongside finally reuniting with her family makes Sayuri's ghost to be reduced to nothing more than a weak deformed ghost that is inmediately surrounded by the souls of the Kamiki Family, who proceed to arrest her and take her to the afterlife to give her a proper punishment for her sins in both life and afterlife.
With Sayuri defeated, Grandma leaves her family leave after acknowledging that they would shut up about their respective crimes. Grandma is left weakened by the experience but despite Norio expecting her to die, Grandma mocks him for that, saying that both have pulled off a Earn Your Happy Ending and that she wants to enjoy it for some years at least.
Magnificent?
Easily the most popular character of the story. Grandma is a Cool Old Lady that just doesn't give up and is unafraid to insult and defy evil ghosts that killed her family.
She is The Mentor for her grandson, encouraging him to overcome his grief over the death of his family and pushing him into a better life.
The whole premise of the character is that she is a genuinely loving—if cranky—old woman who was forced to deal with a curse, and who is willing to dirty her hands and souls as long she can ensure the safery of her beloved grandson.
Bastard?
Sayuri's family are Asshole Victims in the sense that they killed their own daughter and didn't allow her a proper burial. But they are also somewhat of a Sympathetic Murderer in that they did that after Sayuri started beating them, with her murder being the culmination of years of Sayuri's abusing them.
In terms of sympathy, Sayuri's father is the least sympathetic while Sayuri's little sister is given the more sympathy (as she was a little girl who was beaten for her older sister and wanted to save her mother from her).
Grandmpa outright tortured them, and in fairly graphic ways. She was completely willing to torture a teenage who has the same age as her grandson just to force she and her family to confess their crimes.
Grandma herself admits that after actions like that, is unlikely that she will be reunited with her husband in the afterlife, but she doesn't care, she wants her grandson to live a good and fulfilled life.
Smart?
Grandma is crafty. Tracking the Kamiki family was not easy as she herself admits, but she found a way to not only find them but also kidnap them, all as a old lady.
She developed her philosophy of "Living" by noticing the patrons behind Sayuri's victims, with she herself admitting that she was smarter than her son and grandson, who were unable to find this fact despite their strong hearts.
She realized that a exorcism would not be enough to get rid of Sayuri and that's why she developed her plan to kidnap Sayuri's family and force them apologize to her ghost.
Verdict?
You Decide
Edited by KazuyaProta on Apr 23rd 2023 at 6:37:59 AM
Watch me destroying my country
Not the Eye
Lemme just slot this in before I do my second League champ prior to Mageseeker talk.
- Chronicles Of The Bitch Queen: Queen Talyien is the infamous "Bitch Queen" of the Oren-yaro. A brilliant strategist and blademaster alike, Talyien proves her ingenuity time and again whether it be evading assassination, tricking or killing her foes, or making allies across an entire continent with her quick thinking and diplomatic skills. Upon coming face to face with the vicious Prince Yuebek and her father's plans to have her marry him, Talyien proceeds in repeatedly trying to eliminate the monstrous prince before enacting a plan to use Yuebek's own magical powers to save the empire from chaos by manipulating him, marrying him in a sham ceremony and playing on his pride to ensure he would aid her in her struggle, all the while letting him think he has complete control over her. Using her cunning one last time, Talyien deduces the means to defeat Yuebek before finally rejecting her father's hold over her, and fakes her death to gain some peace for herself and her loved ones.
Any further commentary on Super Super Big Doctor? (Summary is two pages back. We're two days out from the proposal and it seems to be getting lost in the flow.)
Let me do a draft for The King (it will go under Animator vs Animation YMMV)
Animator vs. Animation: The King is a vengeful stick figure who seeks the destruction of the Minecraft world for losing his son in a simulation of the game. Researching everything there is to the game, the King constructs his own enchanted rod, seeks out the Master Block to accomplish just that, and manipulates Purple to retrieve it for him. The King stops at nothing to destroy the world, fighting off the Stick Gang, their ally mobs, and even Herobrine and Purple all on his own and winning. Whenever he's outnumbered or surrounded, the King uses quick thinking and distractions to turn the tables and immediately get the upper hand again. Nearly succeeding in his quest, The King only is stopped when he has a change of heart, gives up his rod and Master Block, and instead embraces Purple as a son, ultimately getting something better in the end.
Still not sold on Super Super Big Doctor.
RIP Toriyama
Yes to the Captor, the Thinker, Riddler + Ivy, and I'll lean yea on Gramma there
Grabbing Citadel (2023) for discussion here on the dates, open to collab if anyone else is interested!
Tonight I dine on monkey soup.
Yes to Riddler, Poison Ivy, and Grandma.
Ever notice how all but a handful of our Star Wars candidates are either Empire, Sith, or Criminal characters? I'm excited to do be doing an actual Republic aligned character within the next couple of hours.
Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
Anymore votes on Moran?
Yes to Sharon Stone, Yuuka and the Thinker for now.