Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- If a work is already reserved by another user, please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.
Are they bad enough?
A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:
- Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
- The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
- The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)
Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Twiddler on Jan 17th 2024 at 5:42:49 AM
....Phenomenal
Echoing what ![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
said. My personal experience with Mario romhacks have not exactly been rich in story, is anyone familiar enough with this one to confirm that there's enough here to go on?
Actually yeah, now that I think about it more, I don't think I really have enough familiarity with Mario rom hacks or anything like that in general to vote without more concrete information.
A Girl, Just One of Many Kinds
For Mort Tenebrous:
- Hallow: Mort Tenebrous is the personal enemy of the Van Tassel Family Lineage. An evil spirit who wish to gain misery and power, he swears vengeance against The Van Tassel family for rebuking him, killing their youngest son. For the last several generations, he causes accidents to kill the first born child, showing no qualms in even killing children just to settle his petty hatred. In the present day, he acts in the guise of a teacher where he attempts to murder Vicky Van Tassel, trying to cause her dad to accidentally her run over before attempting to kill her girlfriend Izzy to make her sacrifice herself.
Lies and Violence!
Yes to Morgoth and the Vamp, abstain on the Mario rom.
What's the work?
The Marvel Cinematic Universe. Specifically, the pre-Disney+ shows, which I am so happy to see getting widely vindicated by the crappy new shows. I combed through them for proposals a few years ago, but there was one I missed... mostly because she had a boring plan to take over the world with smartphones or something that I didn't remember.
Which brings us to Runaways (2017). A live-action adaptation of the eponymous team, a group of childhood friends discover they have superpowers and that their parents are part of a serial killing-cult, the Pride. The Runaways, naturally, run away, and spend two and a half seasons fighting against a family of alien gods who have forced the Pride to do their dark bidding.
...Until the last six episodes suddenly shift to a dark fantasy genre, with the alien Gibborim being unceremoniously killed off and replaced by an evil witch. STARCRUSHER has actually asked me about her before; I didn't think she counted at the time, describing her as "Agatha but with an obnoxious amount of cleavage instead of an engaging personality." And. Well. I stand by that assessment. Buuut on a rewatch, I think she's nasty enough.
Who is Morgan le Fay?
The ancient witch of Arthurian legend, Morgan was banished to the Dark Dimension—a realm of madness and nightmares come to life, where its inhabitants see there darkest fears haunt them for eternity. There she stewed and schemed to return, reaching out centuries later to a young witch named Tina Minoru, who she tried to convince to retrieve the powerful weapon known as the Staff of One.
Tina, however, realized Morgan's true evil, and kept the Staff for herself. Some decades later, she finds herself a member of the Pride, and her daughter Nico claims the Staff as her own. As Nico grows in power, Morgan begins slowly reaching out to her, providing guidance in mastering her dark magics to defeat the Gibborim, until she's eventually able to banish them to the Dark Dimension... along with the human hosts they were inhabiting, a few members of the Pride and the Runaways' leader Alex. Oh, and creating a doorway for Morgan to escape.
The Runaways travel to the Dark Dimension to save their family, finding them in repeating visions of their worst memories and regrets. Chase finds his dad being beaten by his abusive father; Gert discovers her mother mindwiped her at a young age to keep her from the Pride's secrets, unintentionally causing her anxiety problems in the process; Molly learns her long-deceased parents were the ones who found the Pride's victims; etc. Fortunately, one of Morgan's minions, a magician named Quinton, takes pity on them and helps them all escape—but without the chance to save Alex.
Morgan has him taken to a prison that is described as somehow even worse than the rest of the Dark Dimension, where illusions of his dead friends torture him into evil. Furthermore, she has her forces begin rounding up the other residents of the Dark Dimension, killing them or throwing them into the prison if they refuse to go along with her plan. Meanwhile, on Earth, Morgan takes over Pride's resources and Tina's company, creating a brand of magic smartphones that she begins shipping to millions throughout the west coast; said smartphones are, of course, evil, and begin turning their users into mindless drones prone to going on violent rampages.
She continues to try manipulating Nico to her side, but once her father tries to steal her grimoire—the Darkhold itself—she delights in murdering him and leaving his corpse for Tina to find. Still, Nico and the others get what they need to return to the Dark Dimension to save Alex. ...Where things immediately go wrong. Quinton is killed and turned into a zombie, who is sent after the Runaways—with specific instructions to kill Nico last, so she can see all her friends slaughtered. Alex is forced to watch all this, and is given the choice to finally submit to corruption in order to save them all—and he does, proving it by murdering an illusion of his own mother.
While all that's going on, Morgan kidnaps the youngest of the Runaways, Molly, to use as a sacrifice to enact a ritual that will see Earth merged with the Dark Dimension, bringing endless torture to all but her coven and her brainwashed slaves: an unbroken circle of power that will fuel her reign. Molly is saved by the Pride, but Morgan gets all the power she needs to begin the ritual and confronts the Runaways, giving them one last chance to kneel if they wish to be spared the horrors of the Dark Dimension.
Unfortunately, she forgot one very important fact. LA has shit cell reception. The Pride sabotage the phone towers to free her slaves, and Morgan—having lost the power for her ritual—spitefully tries to kill all the Runaways with her plan ruined. Though she's able to kill Gert (this gets undone by time travel), they're able to banish her back to the Dark Dimension, saving the world from her grasp.
Heinous enough?
Endless torture and Mind Rape for all humanity, trapping those who do not submit to becoming mindless drones in their worst fears and memories. Easily the worst in the show; the Gibborim's schemes only extended to sinking California into the sea, with vague plans for world domination after the fact. Even for the MCU, we're good here.
Mitigating factors?
Her mentorship of Nico? Just a way to gain her trust and, by extension, gain possession of the Staff. Once it becomes clear Nico won't join her in the finale, Morgan just tries to brainwash her.
Freeing Alex from his torture? Only after he finally embraces the dark urges that will see him become a murderer in one possible Bad Future, and even that's with the heavy caveat that he still needs to survive escaping the rest of the prison.
Good intentions? She tries to prop herself up as a "symbol of female empowerment" that's going to save this broken world, but Get calls out both as bullshit. She's a sadist and a bully that wants power, nothing more.
Corruption from centuries in the Dark Dimension? The idea is never even approached. Some of the residents manage to hold onto some semblance of their old selves, such as Quinton, and the only area where people are corrupted into their worst selves is explicitly under her control. Everywhere else is just misery intended to break you down, not make you evil.
I'm a yes. What say you all?
The Moron
Well, like you said, I was always wondering about her, but I never could quite psych myself up to watch the show myself ![[lol]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/lol2v12_4863.png "[lol]"){kind=small}
. Sounds like she lands, good work Emerald!
are you going to do Jonah next? (I only saw the first season but what I saw he seemed like a potential keeper)
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
To Morgan De Frey
Edited by G-Editor on Jul 29th 2023 at 12:34:42 PM
Lies and Violence!
Nah, he genuinely loves his daughter, and repeatedly goes out of his way to convince her to join him.
A nice swimmer
to Morgan Fey.
The Ultimate Lifeform
Just a bit of a heads up, I haven't actually been able to finish Secret Invasion (2023) cause I got super sick over a week ago and I had my midterms yesterday so I have been swamped. I'm gonna get to it real soon though! Good thing it's only 6 episodes.
Oh and to Morgan.
Edited by ForgoLight on Jul 29th 2023 at 9:22:28 AM
"Us weirdos have to stick together!"
The Draftsman of Doom
Yes to Morgan.
Feels good, don't it?
Yes to Morgan le Fay.
Edited by Mediamagician on Jul 29th 2023 at 9:27:05 AM
A Girl, Just One of Many Kinds
Yes to Morgan
And here’s tons of the two last Puppet Combo candidate, this time from the ORIGINAL series! And this time, this is a character we play as.
What’s The Work?
The Riverside Incident is an exploration horror game made in 2019 for the Scary Tales Volume 1 package. The premise is simple. In July of 1991, a group of hikers in Wisconsin discovered a camera that they turned into police, who released parts onto the public to get any information. It seems like a regular exploration, or someone going through a hospital, but it slowly gets clear that we are in fact playing as a satanic serial killer.
Who is The Unidentified Suspect?
The Unidentified Suspect, known to be The Riverside Ripper is a unknown man who we see traversing through a mental hospital. Not much is known about The Ripper, however, various things in his lair as well as many police reports and newspapers through out the place, we get a full character of The Ripper, a satanic serial killer who’s obsessed with fire and wants to stay out of the eyes of the law.
A scarily intelligent person, the Riverside Ripper is an active serial killer, his modus operandi consisting of brutally torturing and killing people in their homes after breaking in, before organ harvesting and and ripping part the bodies for a cult worshipping and then he proceeds to burn down the houses to avoid evidence, staying behind just long enough for police to come in before leaving the scene, staying in The Riverside State Hospital, where has weapons of murdering people, blackboards of how to extract organs and planning tracks, satanic lettering and symbols and various pieces of clothing, including women’s underwear he stores in drawers, and finally large newspapers clippings which tell the story where he keeps up as trophies as sorts.
As shown in many papers which tell the complete timelines, during 1989, one of his victims were two families, the Van Houston and The Lawson Family, which included 5 children. He later goes on and hunts down Dr. Richard Eckhardt, a retired psychologist in the State Hospital, burning down a car be,ongoing to a man named Marvin and his girlfriend before he kidnaps the two and Decapitated and proceeded to go out of his way burn the evidence of his papers of his studies. He then proceeds to set fire to a home belonging to Liza Sidney killing her roomates John Valdez me Caitlyn Nordstrom before kidnapping Liza and sending her, Marvin and Megan to be sent to get their organs harvest.
The ending of the game has The Unidentified Suspect stalking into a property at a farm, and he enters in, attacking a woman offscreen, before it cuts to him watching her property go up in flames as the police arrive, before the camera cuts out.
Two years later the group of hikers find the camera. The Man was Never Caught.
Mitigating Factors?
Yeah, nah. Despite its implied the Riverside Ripper is an escaped mental patient, we do see that The Riverside Ripper is an extremely intelligent person, actively going out of his away to erase any information on his identity. While not having much of a personality due to a lack of lines, the way he bring about his murders and hiding the evidence makes it clear he’s an intelligent, sadistic, bloodthirsty and cult-obsessed individual.
Heinous Standard?
Now, Puppet Combo does have a high heinous standard. Now thankfully, we don’t have to compare him to Friedstein, Womb Ripper, Dylan The Murderer and Slaw. But we still got Driller Killer, Tom Smith and The Abductor. But frankly, this guy manages to cut out. We get a sizable body count, having a confirmed kill count of over 16 people, which included two whole families with 5 children together, as well as sending more than 3 people to have their organs harvest. There is confirmed to be many more victims due to the various kill objects, the planning as well as the women’s underwear, and we know the brutality of the murders as the descriptions of the bones breaking, organs ripped out and bodies flayed, ect. Overall, I think he has enough body count and an established pattern to get him by.
Verdict?
Gonna go with a yeah
Edited by MermaidEyes15 on Jul 29th 2023 at 12:39:05 PM
Keep Fighting. Keep Loving.
Eh, I need to think about this one. I am unsure if this is too much like The Westside Ripper in that a personality is technically implied through his targeting women, but he otherwise has no personality other than "serial killer". Him leaving a mental hospital doesn't help. How detailed are the accounts of his personality?
Edited by Mediamagician on Jul 29th 2023 at 9:42:42 AM
A Girl, Just One of Many Kinds
I think he has enough. Intelligent, planning ahead for his cult worshipping, obsessed with fire, sadistic thrill and brutality
Edited by MermaidEyes15 on Jul 29th 2023 at 12:52:42 PM
Keep Fighting. Keep Loving.
Alright, leaning yes.
Ultimate Moral Compass
Morgan Le Fay
Edited by therealjackieboy on Jul 29th 2023 at 10:53:46 AM
"No running in the halls!"
....Phenomenal
for Morgan and the Ripper.
Gentle Laborer
The Suspect does seem very similar to the Night Ripper in the sense that both lack a distinct personality. At least the Night Ripper is implied to be an ultra-conservative radio host, the Suspect could be genuinely crazy for all we know.
Abstaining for now, but leaning —his apparent sadism and premeditation of murders suggest he's aware enough to know what he's doing.
Not the Eye
to Morgan and lean Suspect
Abstain on Devil
Edited by EmperorGeode on Jul 29th 2023 at 11:48:10 AM
Goku Black
Morgan Lee fey
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Yes to Morgan. That description doesn't seem inaccurate I guess that's what you get when you're a witch played by Elizabeth Hurley. First for her?
Yes to the Ripper.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
resident girlfail
Easy yes to Morgan. I should rewatch Runaways...
The Autobot Avatar
to Morgan and the Ripper
RIP Toriyama
Bumpity
Tonight I dine on monkey soup.
I'd like someone else to look at this Mario ROM hack before I vote
Absolute destiny... apeachalypse?