Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- If a work is already reserved by another user, please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.
Are they bad enough?
A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:
- Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
- The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
- The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)
Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Twiddler on Jan 17th 2024 at 5:42:49 AM
Not the Eye
Yes he got only two ![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
and around ten or so ![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
. After Nihilus
Based on the EP, easy to Krauss. Nasty, racist, murderous police officer from the '60s who is acquitted? Yeah that tracks.
According to the movie's Bittersweet Ending entry on the page though, at least he's not a cop anymore.
Edited by futuremoviewriter on Jan 19th 2023 at 9:13:37 AM
Wild Child
Krauss.
Goku Black
Krauss.
Not the Eye
Okay to kick of my deep dive
What is the work?
Thunder Cats 2011 is Darker and Edgier reboot of the classic 1985 show. In a world of Beast Man and other fantastical creatures, isolated kingdom of thundera reins supreme, inhabited by Cat People pround on beating the Evil Sorcerer Mumm-ra. Young prince Lion-o however lacks pride of his people and instaded has interest in mysterious, mysthical technology much to chargin of his father. Everything changes when thundera is attacked by their enemies the lizards, armed with giant mechas with thunderan general Grune defecting to their side. Turns out Grune and lizards have entered in service of recently freed Mumm-ra. Now Lion-o, armed with the mistical sword of Omens and in company of his adopted brother Tygra, his and Tygra’s Love Interest Cheetara, his pet snarf, twin street urchins wilikit and wailikat and Grune’s former brother in arms Panthro, has to go on journey across the world in search of mystical book of Omens in hopes of beating Mumm-ra, rebuilding and redemming his kingdom and bring peace to the Third Earth.
So Mumm-ra already counts, but I found a few who may make it alongside him. To start of let me present to you Mumm-ra’s masters.
Who are the Ancient spirits of evil? What have they done?
Four evil deities who empower Mumm-ra, they are root of almost all evil in series. As we Learn in the flasback it was them who chose Plundar star to be destroyed in order to create the sword of plundarr. With the star whole really small galaxy of plundar was destroyed and billions of lives lost, act which caused Mumm-ra’s second in command Leo to defect, lead rebelion and seal Mumm-ra away.
As revelated in episode “Native son” when pround and isolationist Tiger tribe contracted a deadly plague they prayed to spirits for salvation. Spirits obliged Under one condition, chief of tribe will sacrifice his newborn son Tigra to them (they predicted Tygra will become thorn in their side). At first spirits keep their end of the bargain until they learned that chief instaded send Tigra away to keep him safe. Enraged they let pleague back until entire village was death, then cursing them all to exist in a state of living death for all eternity, turning into a Feral beats every night.
Heinousness?
Series has huge standard as you will see with others I have in store, that said…
They are indirectly responsible for everything Mumm-ra does, Mumm-ra’s worst act being directly under their orders and what they did to tigers being especialy petty. They fly over the standard.
Mitigating issues?
There is nothing to suggest that they lack the agency and while they only appear briefly in two episodes trying to have newborn Tygra killed and then first letting his entire village die of plague before putting them in And I Must Scream state giving them just enought personal nastines. Now they innitialy do keep their end of the bargain but it was done so chief would sacrice tigra. When they learn they have been tricked they retaliate hard. I think it gives them just enought characterization.
One small issues, first, there are four of them. But something I should note, for all intents and purposes they are one character. They speak on same time with one voice (thought they are voiced by different actor in two of their apperancess) with their eyes glowing to simbolise it.
Conclusion?
Assuming there isn’t one member to much for them to count together. Big yes.
Professor Gigachad
City Heroes duo, Ludwig, Raven Keeper, Miranda Spot, Krauss
Abstain on Movarth
@ NTG, William was more angry at Sargon for using the Forbbiden Arts at all, which in this universe is basically treated like forbidden black magic.
I added Kano's writeup to the page.
CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes
Classy, Refined, Unstable
Miranda, Krauss
Not sure on the 4 spirits, heinousness doesn't seem to be an issue but I think 3 is the max we go for groups unless they stand out each individually ala Berserk.
My final stance on Morvath before I drop him, intending on turning a whole town into a feeding ground (the game notes that they won't be killed but turned into cattle) and he's severely lacking in resources is quite a big batch of nastiness unless there's another vampire in the lore which does similar then you got me.
Oh, Mr. Kennedy, you entertain me. To show my appreciation, I will help you awaken from your world of clichés.
Professor Gigachad
Now that I have a space freed up time for my next proposal.
What is the Work?
Dear Diary is a Pokémon fanfic that primarily uses the setting of Pokémon Black and White. It is a fictionalized version of the author's Nuzlocke playthrough. It follows the journey of a Pokémon trainer named Blair who sets out, this trainer is actually a huge jerkass though and often mistreats his Pokémon. Despite that though he ends up encountering some threats that are far worse than he could dream to be.
Who is Ghetsis and What Has He Done?
Ghetsis is once again the power-hungry leader of Team Plasma and one of the main villains of the fic. Ghetsis throughout the fic often makes minor experiences either usually to talk about his supposed desires, or taunt Blair. Team Plasma, however, would perform a lot of horrible actions under Ghetsis' support, forcefully stealing Pokémon away from trainers, and leading massive terrorist attacks across cities that would lead to many deaths.
Later on, the true horror of Team Plasma is revealed when Blair visits the P2 laboratory. Team Plasma has essentially created a massive breading factor where Pokémon are bread to be an army of Child Soldiers. The Pokémon are reprogrammed to be obedient to Team Plasma with them using methods such as ghost types to wipe their mind, killing any Pokémon that would prove to be a problem and eventually getting thousands of them killed in battle. Blair is attacked by some Team Plasma grunts and Pokémon but Ghetsis saves him in time. However, this is not out of kindness as Ghetsis only wants Blair as his ally and to get access to the Legendary Pokémon Reshiram.
Blair does stick by Ghetsis' side for a time but it doesn't last when Blair realizes just how much of a monster Ghetsis is. Eventually, after a series of events N ends up turning on Ghetsis as N knew the whole time that Ghetsis was only using him for his own personal agenda. Ghetsis, Alder and Blair fight over the Light Stone that contains Reshiram. Eventually, during Chapter 58, Ghetsis murders Alder claims the Light Stone for himself, puts Blair under his control, and plunges the Unova region into a civil war where every faction is scrabbling to take control with many dying as a result of this.
Ghetsis conquers a large amount of the region and attempted to conquer Opalucid City. Ghetsis would end up getting into a way with Drayden though for control of the city with Ghetsis working to murder anyone that is working for Drayden. Ghetsis wants to take control of the legendary Reshiram and Zekrom to secure his power over the Unova region. It takes a long time but eventually Ghetsis is able to manipulate events so that he can summon the two legendaries. The two being summoned is threatening to tear the entire region apart which Ghetsis doesn't care about as long as he can rule the world.
However, Ghetsis finds that he can't control the dragons as well as he thought he would be able to and Ghetsis goes a bit crazy and starts attacking Blair as well as anyone he can, nearly killing the elite four member Catlyin as a result of this. Ghetsis is ultimately killed himself by one of Blair's Pokémon, fitting for him.
Does He have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Ghetsis, much like his canon counterpart, does put up the mask that he wants Pokémon liberation, and on the surface that would be a very reasonable goal since in this universe, the entire world is based on some pretty horrible breeding programs that is basically a massive Deconstruction of the Pokémon franchise as a whole. However, also in the same way as his canon counterpart, it is ultimately shown that Ghetsis is solely a power-hungry man using that as an excuse who in reality is only interested and gaining more power for himself and doesn't care at all about the Pokémon. Any instance he seems to show some level of humanity, such as saving Blair or sparing the citizens of Opalucid, it is blatantly stated to be out of Pragmatic Villainy.
Does He meet the Heinousness Standard?
This world is incredibly dark and brutal, and as such has quite a heinous standard. The Pokémon League is enforcing some pretty horrible practices including starter breeding facilities, we have Reshiram and Zekrom who are both a threat to the entire world, and we also later get a genocidal Terrakion who wants to completely wipe out all of humanity so that Pokémon can be free from them, the protagonist Blair is also quite abusive towards his Pokémon and has quite a few kills as well.
Despite this though Ghetsis does still quite handily stand out as among the worst of the worst. He is the leader of Team Plasma who is employing some horrible breeding methods in order to create an army of Child Soldiers for Team Plasma, notably something that is considered horrible even by the standards of the Pokémon League, along with leading massive terrorist attacks against numerous cities. He pushes ever further past the heinous standard when he murders the champion plunges the region into a civil war and plans to summon the world destroying Zekrom and Reshiram solely so that he can rule the world.
Final Verdict?
Yep.
CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes
Sure to Ghetsis.
Unfortunately, the Ancient Spirits might be running afoul of the groups rule. The Godhand kept because each of them is a distinct individual counting on their own merits and as a group. By contrat, the blending together might damage the Spirits' qualification
to Ghetsis, but to the spirits, group of 4 is just past the limit
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
We did put up that horror movie group of four pretty once.
Frankly, I never agreed with applying the groups rule to small groups of four or five. I can understand applying the rule to large organizations as those are too impersonal and overall means badness can indeed be too diluted, but if a group of four or five is characterized enough, then I don’t see the problem with them all keeping even if they have the same crimes.
Edited by MasterN on Jan 19th 2023 at 10:10:11 AM
One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
The Ultimate Lifeform
To Ghetsis. It's a shame his main game self isn't a keeper...
Alrighty, I think I have waited long enough from the first City duo to EP the second, so here we go!
What is the Work?
City of Heroes was a popular MMO in the early 2000s to 2012 when it was sadly shut down. In the game you play as a Hero (or as a Villain) and go around doing deeds and fighting mighty foes.
Mot is an ancient god of Death and Decay who is one of the deities of the group known as the Banished Pantheon. Aeons ago, Mot, along with many other deities were expelled from Reality by Tielekku, the ruler of the gods, who was disgusted with the other gods depravity, Mot standing out as one of the worst. Mot had many idols of his originally kept in Carthage where he was worshipped, with some of those artifacts eventually ending up in the lands of Cimerora. Upon discovering his influence in Cimerora, Marcus Valerius is tasked with taking the Idol of Mot to a faraway land, eventually revealed to be the future site of Paragon City. Upon Marcus' journey coming to an end, Mot psychologically breaks him and molds him into his new Sentinel.
For centuries, Mot slumbered until the Rikti War. With the heroes of the world distracted, Mot commanded his followers to descend upon the place of his resting, Astoria in Paragon, and slaughter every single man, woman, and child present as human sacrifices to sate his hunger. From that point on, Astoria would be renamed Dark Astoria and would be left all but abandoned.
In 2012, Mot finally truly begun to awaken, bursting through the surface of Dark Astoria and bringing forth all of his strongest minions. Mind Raping numerous people into suicide, Mot grew more powerful by feasting upon his victim's souls, and driving more and more people to despair while annihilating the forces of his first opposition in the Tsoo and the Circle of Thorns. Continually attempting to break the minds of the Incarnate Champions who oppose him, Mot eventually manages to devour a slew of heroes, including Tielekku herself, who had grown weaker with age. Setting his sights on devouring the entire world, Mot was ultimately defeated by the Incarnate Champions and had the souls he devoured turned against him to finally slay the beast, the evil god screaming in petulant rage just before his downfall.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
Nope. While Mot is a God of Death and Sterility, the existence of non-malevolent death entities in City of Heroes, as well as Tielekku banishing him for his actions indicate that even if he was Made of Evil, he willingly choses to embrace his nature unlike others. Not to mention his gleeful sadism and enjoyment of the torment he inflicts upon others goes well beyond the threshold of a being "just doing what it does".
Are they bad enough?
Absolutely. While Mot does have higher resources, he also has higher crimes and far more onscreen kills, not to mention how the Banished Pantheon are a very small cult and Mot himself was sealed away for most of the time, thereby unable to directly influence events as much at first.
Final Verdict?
Again, a solid keeper in my opinion due to his complete lack of agency issues and scope.
Tammy Arcanus was once a humble sorceress in the Praetorian Midnight Squad who had an unhealthy fascination with Death. Using her magics to project herself in an Astral Form, Tammy accidently caused her own body to wither away in spite of the efforts of her father to save her. Angered by his failure, Tammy killed him and enslaved his soul with a Medallion that he had used to bind her to the living world.
Emperor Marcus Cole aka Tyrant would then get his hands upon the medallion and command Tammy to commit crimes in his name for the sake of eliminating any magical competition to Tyrant's rule. While Tammy, now called Diabolique was obliged to obey his every word, she still happily took part in the murder, such as her willing infiltration and slaughter of the Ravenwing Cabal, who she also took the souls of.
Upon being ordered to remove the Praetorian Midnight Squad from the equation, she tricked a high ranking mage named Cerulean into a relationship, using him to get several midnighters killed, and ultimately corrupting a young Praetorian Percy Winkley into killing the rest. Fleeing to safety in First Ward, Diabolique would reside there for a time, studying the vortex of mystic energies and tormented souls wandering the place.
Later being encountered by Praetorian heroes, Diabolique manipulates them into helping her discover the true origin of the Appirations of souls within First Ward in the hopes of enslaving all of them, as well as managing to trick the Praetorians into acquiring her medallion to fully unchain her from Tyrant's control, all the while rubbing her treachery in the face of Cerulean and the lone survivor of the Ravenwing Cabal, Sorceress Serene, the latter of whom nearly kills her but Diabolique escapes.
Now free, the spirit makes her way to Primal Earth where she becomes enamored with and promptly joins Mot. Exploiting the hatred of Serene's allies, the Talons of Vengeance, Diabolique lures them to Primal Earth to have them begin kidnapping people the Talons deem "unworthy" to be killed in order to further strengthen Mot in exchange for Mot empowering her, all the while happily aiding in Mot's expansion across the world. Upon her apparent initial defeat, Mot transforms her to aid him further, but he himself is then defeated.
Seeing her opportunity, Diabolique promptly enacts a new plan. Using the souls that now bind Mot, she kidnaps the Praetorian version of the hero Ms. Liberty, Praetor Duncan to use her in a ritual to transfer all of Mot's power into herself and become Death Incarnate. Luring the Freedom Phalanx to Dark Astoria and subsequently using Mot's powers to assimilate them all including her Primal counterpart Numina, Diabolique sets up her own conquest of all Realities, just barely being stopped before she can become an unstoppable Multiverse Devouring Goddess, with her last breath being that of spite for the living that would dare oppose her.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
This one is a bit tricky. While she technically starts with one due to regretting betraying the Praetorian Midnight Squad while under Cole's thumb, she seems to have gotten over it by the time of First Ward, and even before it was presented in a selfish manner, what with the Midnight Squad being useful to her, especially in light of her immediate murder of her own father and subsequent enslaving of his soul. Further more, any sympathy she could have garnered is long gone by the time of her death in Dark Astoria, where she has been completely free of any influence for years and willingly allies with Mot out of no reason that finding the creature agreeable and spite for the living. As far as I can tell by the time of her death, she has either subverted possible redeeming qualities, or completely ejected them outright in favor of her own goals.
Are they bad enough?
Out of all the villains listed here, Tammy has by far the least resources. While she isn't able to get anywhere close to the scope of the other three until she allies and subsequently succeeds Mot, she still has plenty of pretty disgusting crimes on her Rapsheet, and once she does subvert Mot she becomes the biggest threat of them all and comes the closest to killing everyone.
Final Verdict?
At the end of the day, Diabolique could have stopped killing as soon as she got her medallion back. She didn't and instead went in the opposite direction. Additionally, her frustration with Cole forcing her to kill was in that she wanted to chose who she killed and when, not that she was opposed to killing. As a villain who continually subverts any possible redeeming qualities she has, I feel like she keeps.
Lies and Violence!
Yes to the snowman demon, the Red Locust, Sargon, Carver, Holmes, Star's two, Aponi, Vengerov, Oswyn, Mari, the City duo, Ludwig, the Raven Keeper, Krauss, Ghetsis, Mot.
Abstain on the spirits and Crossbones for now. Also Tammy, until ![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
is answered.
- Twig:
- The Baron Richmond is the pinnacle of the Crown's depravity. Infamous for regularly unleashing his psychotic twin sisters to cause indiscriminate slaughter, the Baron is introduced gleefully participating in the complete extermination of the city of Lugh, only relenting with the promise of immortality from marrying Candida "Emily" Gage and Mauer's vow to assassinate his political enemies. The Baron spends his free time tyrannically ruling over the city of Warrick, killing whomever he pleases and filling churches with the nailed-down and starved corpses of the faithful. When families are formed, the Baron takes their first born children to be auctioned off on the Block, replacing them with monstrous overseers he tells the parents are the firstborn transformed; said "Firstborn" are designed to fly into a rage and attack everyone in sight at the slightest hint of a conflict. To celebrate his marriage to his tortured bride, the Baron invites several upper-class families to Warrick, intentionally putting them and all of his subjects in danger of the Hair-Trigger Temper of the Firstborn should minor conflicts inevitably arise. Taking pride in his spiteful cruelty, the Baron happily throws away countless lives and backstabs everyone to attain the true power he craves.
- The Infante
- Dyed in the Wool & Black Sheep (arcs 12 & 13): John "The Devil" Colby is the premier crime lord of Corinth. A warmonger who sold chemicals to both sides of conflicts, the Devil carved a bloody niche into the criminal underworld by visiting wildly disproportionate torture and murder onto any perceived disrespect or failure. His signature business is peddling a drug that causes long-term damage to its users' bodies and polarizes their personalities, leaving them subdued one moment and magnifying their worst traits into bloodthirsty violence the next. When Sylvester demands recompense for the countless lives he's ruined—especially from the children he preys on and regularly traffics—the Devil responds by organizing mass attacks against the city's children and leaving bombs at a train station for the other Lambs. When faced with defeat, the Devil reveals he's bought entire wagons full of children from other cities to be "creatively" disposed of and has bounty hunters ready to wipe out all his enemies and associates, happily intending to take everyone else down with him.
Edited by EmeraldEmperor on Jan 19th 2023 at 1:21:17 PM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
I'm keeping the Twig and Hellraiser stuff at the Drafts until the trees are complete.
You say Tammy "seems to have gotten over it by the time of First Ward". But can we assume that, or is that just guessing?
How many Heroes candidates are coming?
Yes to Ghetsis.
Edited by ACW on Jan 19th 2023 at 1:20:34 PM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
The Ultimate Lifeform
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Well in her dialogue to Cerulean she deliberately mocks him over getting duped by her and shows no regret for her actions. I see it as being like Injustice Darkseid in the crossover comic with He-Man where Darkseid got over the anger over Superman's killing of Kalibak.
These are the last two for now.
"Us weirdos have to stick together!"
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Hmm, seems like enough to give a qualified yes.
BTW, will the last Twig baddie go at the end?
Edited by ACW on Jan 19th 2023 at 1:30:17 PM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Lies and Violence!
Yes to Tammy then.
The Infante will be in the middle, I left a spot open for him on the tree. He's technically one of the Big Bads, but he's introduced immediately right before the Baron is defeated and is more of a glorified Arc Villain who just so happens to last to the climax.
The Emperor of Evil!
to Mot and Diabolique, I think the fact she later sadistically gloats and brags about it sounds like she did get over it.
@ACW I'll also be handling the writeups for the City of Heroes characters having discussed with Forgo via PM.
Also to Ghetsis.
Edited by Powermaster201 on Jan 19th 2023 at 1:37:02 PM
Classy, Refined, Unstable
Ghetsis, Mot, Tammy
Showtime!
Not the Eye
to Ghestis and Cyty of heroes duo
For Spirits they are pretty interchecable. As stated they even share a voice, while always speaking at the same time. But there is very little known about them and therefore no iformation about posible Hive Mind. I thought that maybe it could help them. And yes thread did once put a Quartet from horror movie, but even in that case they were individual.
Professor Gigachad
Mot and Tammy
No to Morvath. Nasty vampire mass murder isn't limited to Harkon; we also have, for instance, the Gray Host from Online, whose members are responsible for everything from horrific experimentation, to transforming hundreds into mindless monsters and want to turn Skyrim and its populace into chattel (though the worst of their individual members have redeeming qualities). Even for a lower-scale baddie, I don't think Morvath is pushing it.
That said, speaking of Elder Scrolls, I do actually have a few more candidates from it, some of which are already sitting on my sandbox.
Let's start with Elder Scrolls Online.
- "Whatever their claims to greatness, it is apparent from the record that the Yokudans were brutal and thorough in their suppression of local peoples, leaving little more than blood and bones as a testament to the civilizations that preceded them. It is no wonder then that the Redguard "civilization" still bears the marks of that brutality to this day. No greater symbol of the Ra Gada's brutality was the self-proclaimed Emperor Tarish-Zi. His followers proclaimed him as deathless. Indeed, he seemed to be born out of Oblivion, so bloody-minded was he."
- A bloodthirsty Yokudan warlord of the First Era, Tarish-Zi rode into the region that would later become known as Hammerfell. Marching his army, the Anka-Ra, across the region, his conquest was a genocidal sweep; the civilizations he conquered were invariably left with few survivors.
- Thanks to Tarish-Zi, the already-battered Nedic people were extirpated from the Hammerfell region. In at least one other case, he tried to exterminate an entire city (later known as Shada's Tear), which drove the population to such desperation to survive that they sold themselves to the foul Nereids. They survived—but they transformed into horrible, mindless servants of the Nereids. This is the basis of the quest "The Reason We Fight" and these kinds of slaughters were terrifyingly regular for the Anka-Ra.
- According to the testimony of his former Cyrodiilic ally Titus Valierus, when Tarish was finished carving a path of slaughter through Hammerfell he settled down and ruled justly according to tradition...for all of a few years. After that he started styling himself as "Emperor," and began plans of invading Cyrodiil and plunging the country into another horrific war, even turning his armies against his own allies when they refused to participate in his campaigns. Titus arranged a rebellion from beneath Tarish-Zi's nose; while the rebellion was crushed, Tarish-Zi was frightened off from invading Cyrodiil, avoiding catastrophe.
- ...until his spirit is resurrected in the quest "The Warrior's Call." Like fellow CM Potema Septim, Tarish-Zi promptly resurrects his dreams of conquest and immediately begins plans to attack Craglorn, a city he used to rule in life. His spirit is put down by the PC.
- Yeesh, even for a historical figure in Elder Scrolls (where one of the more "morally ambiguous" figures, Pelinal Whitestrake, was a racist lunatic who would alternate between paying evil unto the very, very evil Ayleids and rampaging against decidedly innocent mer races) Tarish-Zi's body count is gigantic. His actions span across one gigantic country and nearly engulfs another, and his methods are so brutal than an entire city voluntarily sells themselves to a Fate Worse than Death just to escape him.
- I'd compare him directly to Potema Septim in terms of body count and the scales of the wars they brew, given they fill the same niche of "unambiguously horrible historical figure who returns from the dead to try and wage war again." While he lacks a few of Potema's more personal touches (like condemning a servant to the Soul Cairn), he's technically acting on a bigger scale than her considering the size of Hammerfell and Cyrodiil both.
- None. Again, when we see him onscreen, he's exactly as evil as he's described in historical texts, which isn't always the case with historical figuers from Elder Scrolls (due to the somewhat flexible canon). Those who knew him in life describe him as a ruthless, arrogant scumbag who would never be satisfied with the power he already had.
- It's a steep hill, but I think Tarish-Zi qualifies here through sheer scale. What do we think?
Edited by Scraggle on Jan 19th 2023 at 11:39:43 AM
- Suspiria (2018): The supposed "Mater Suspiriorum," Helena Markos is a pretender to the title and the corrupt ruler of the Markos Academy coven. When she is discovered by a dancer named Patrician, Markos curses her to an agonizing, crippled state of undeath. While targeting heroine Susie to steal her body, Markos engages in cruel sadism, such as the dancer Olga who is placed in a tortured state of sheer agony. Murdering Susie's friend Sara as a sacrifice, Markos also tries to kill the witch Blanc, showing nothing short of relish to making her victims suffer endlessly in the worst sort of torture.
Did Herod get enough votes? And should he go before or after Nihilus?
Yes to Krauss (sadly, him being a Karma Houdini is based on what happened).
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts