Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- If a work is already reserved by another user, please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.
Are they bad enough?
A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:
- Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
- The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
- The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)
Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Twiddler on Jan 17th 2024 at 5:42:49 AM
Given it's a fic, I say go for it:
- Of all the things the girls had ever said: Richard is a serial killer living out in the middle of nowhere. With a fetish for "time of the month," Richard regularly abducts young women to hold them until their period whereupon he rapes, tortures, and murders them after holding them captive and psychologically abusing them. Burying many such women on his property, Richard attempts to break his latest victim Fay, before trying to murder her when he believes her time has come.
- Emperor All: John, "Emperor" of the nameless city, discovers one day he has nearly unlimited control of the land. Making himself its exalted ruler, John abuses those he dislikes and forces women into bed while making his wife Naomi simply be okay with everything he does. Realizing he has a rival with the same ability, John dedicates himself to a vicious years-long war, conscripting civilians and killing countless innocents while ruining the city. Keeping his forces as breeding stock and soldiers, John can only dream of further conquest and empire, even ripping away Naomi's capacity for worry when she tries to leave him.
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
To King Ghidorah
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Yes to Ghidorah.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Yes to King G.
Also, there's an entry from Hans Akkermans on YMMV.Black Book, which I am not disputing, but there is another villain from the movie who I think easily counts.
Who is Gunther Franken?
A lumbering, sadistic brute of an SS officer in the occupied Netherlands, Franken works under the more compassionate officer Muntze and shares a mutual hatred with him. Muntze is attempting to minimize bloodshed and even tries to arrange deals with the resistance, knowing Germany is about to fall. Franken is a racist, antisemitic, lecherous creep who is more concerned with personal enrichment. Through a spy network of traitors, Franken allows Jews to receive the information of an escape route.
It's a trap. The Jews are ambushed by Franken and his forces, gunned down and then stripped of valuables so Franken can keep them or himself. He's done this at least once, murdering the family of heroine Rachel Stein who joins the Dutch resistance and attempts to seduce Muntze for information. Muntze actually genuinely falls for her and realizes she's Jewish while hiding the secret. Franken doesn't suspect, while being bugged and too busy with his own secretary/concubine Ronnie.
When Rachel/Ellis learns of Franken planning to slaughter another convoy of Jews, she tries to get the resistance to intervene but they put the lives of the Dutch above Jews, knwoing hostages will be executed if Franken is assassinated. Desperate, Rachel tries to get Muntze to help...
Muntze actually informs the SS General that Franken has been engaged in extracurricular activities. As the general puts it, there's nothing wrong with killing Jews. But not turning over the loot is punishable by death. Franken has already transferred the loot and pulls one on Muntze by revealing his deal with the resistance. Also punishable by death.
Franken takes the fall of the Reich as a chance to flee to safety, but Akkermans ambushes him on the way and reveals he wants the money before gunning Franken down.
Mitigating issues?
Hahahahaha. It's implied Franken isn't even a true believer. He's a brutal creep who engages in a nasty little trap so he can steal valuables. All he cares about is putting money in his pocket, even if he's assisting with genocide.
Conclusion?
Easy keeper.
Ultimate Moral Compass
Franken
Classy, Refined, Unstable
King Ghidorah, Franken
Shoot your shot Geode, if by some account the fic gets updated and there's any issued you'll be able to address it then bud.
Oh, Mr. Kennedy, you entertain me. To show my appreciation, I will help you awaken from your world of clichés.
Ghido, Franken
Quite unpredictable
King Ghidorah and Gunther Franken.
Any advice on shortening an EP? I think I have a candidate, but I worry my effortpost will be as long as Slagar's.
"I don't have the power to reverse my destiny. [...] But I'm not going to turn away from my fate anymore." — Kiriya
To Gunther
Seeing split opinions on Maluradek so I'll let him go. On further thought, yeah, only two direct murders and four killed by inaction is low. There's nothing to hint even indirectly he may have ordered the deaths of others, either.
to Ghidorrah and Franken, as well as the Podesta.
Edited by Necrowonomicon on Mar 18th 2023 at 9:20:47 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Where do we stand on Lorion?
Franken.
And King Ghidorah.
Quite unpredictable
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
I remember casting the first downvote. I'm unsure about how it turned out for Lorion, but it doesn't look good.
Edited by carduinal-cyn on Mar 18th 2023 at 9:31:32 AM
"I don't have the power to reverse my destiny. [...] But I'm not going to turn away from my fate anymore." — Kiriya
My write-up for Slash :
5 Minute Dating (link) : Slash first looks like a sympathetic deformed man wanting to find someone who would love him, but is in reality a cannibal who has killed and eaten many victims before. During a speed dating event, he comes across a girl named Sarah also suffering from deformation. Since Sarah is insecure because of that, Slash reassures her and manages to deceive her to have dinner with him, only to eat her, adding her to his victim list.
Ultimate Moral Compass
King G
Alrighty, here's my final Diagnosis: Murder candidate. Once again big thanks to Scrags and mir for allowing me to collaborate with them.
Who is She?
Ariel, from Season 6's "Murder, My Suite" (literally the next episode after Howard's), is a Femme Fatale thief who wants to steal all the money from a hotel’s vault.
What has she done?
Manipulating two men into working for her, Dr. Herb Downey and Phil Krup, by making them believe she loves them, forcing them to give up everything in their lives to join her, in order to create a distraction so that she and her crew can steal from the vault, Ariel manipulates a med school grad student named Alex to steal a deadly virus from a lab, using it to infect the entire hotel during an award show.
Over two dozen people are infected by the virus, with Mark Sloan having to quarantine the entire hotel so as to not spread the virus outside as he and his friends await for a vaccine. Before the heist can commence, Ariel infects Alex with the virus to tie up loose ends, which kills him. Once the money’s been acquired, Ariel lures her two male partners in crime to the van containing it, killing Phil while they’re distracted wondering where she is. Caught by the police afterwards, Ariel’s only regret is not killing Downey and taking all the money for herself.
Redeeming Qualities?
Zero. Ariel pretends to love her crew in order to manipulate them into helping her, only to toss them away when the mission's over.
Heinousness?
Ariel unleashes a killer virus inside a crowded hotel that could've easily killed more than two dozen people. We see the effects of the virus, and we see tons of people undergoing the effects. Pretty nasty crime for a thief with not much in resources.
Conclusion
Solid keeper
"No running in the halls!"
to Ghidorah, Franken and Ariel
Edited by WatTambor on Mar 18th 2023 at 7:48:54 PM
I'm finally back with another proposal.
What is the work?
Koishi Komeiji's Heart-Throbbing Adventure is a web series based on Touhou Project that's a little hard to describe. The first two episodes are mostly just edgy shock humor where Koishi is much more unhinged and crazy than she is in canon, but after that it develops into a substantive, intricate and serious plot revolving around various Gensokyo residents being Driven to Madness and their fellows trying to find out why. There's character development, plot twists and plenty of heart-wrenching moments, to the point where if you scan the comments on Youtube under the episodes that have been posted there, you can find plenty of people seriously invested in the series and moved by what's happening.
It's technically not completed, but seeing as how the last episode came out 6 years ago and the series has most likely been abandoned, I think it's safe for me to do a proposal for it.
Who is the villain?
Watatsuki no Toyohime, who in Touhou canon is a princess of the Lunarians alongside her younger sister Yorihime, and is here the mastermind behind the plot to drive Gensokyo's residents mad. While she and her sister were just a pair of annoying Hero Antagonists in canon, here they're much worse, seeking to bring about the "Moonlight Descent Plan" in order to forcibly turn everyone in the outside world into satori.
What does she do?
The "Moonlight Descent Ceremony" that Toyohime is in charge of has a lot of complicated steps that would be hard for me to describe her, but the gist of it involves driving Koishi crazy so she'll be easier to control, using the moon to make the Gensokyo residents become unhinged, keeping Yukari Yakumo occupied so she won't interfere, and destroying the Great Hakurei Barrier to allow the residents of Gensokyo to spill into the outside world.
As this is going on, Toyohime and the Lunarians make contact with humanity in the outside world and use their advanced technology to bring about world peace among them. This being so "war" will become nonexistent among humans and go to where all things that don't exist go — Gensokyo, further corrupting its inhabitants. Toyohime also employs Koakuma to manipulate Flandre Scarlet into destroying the Great Hakurei Barrier separating Gensokyo from the outside world, which in combination with various other factors caused by the Lunarians results in Gensokyo's residents all being transformed into giant rampaging kaiju, which the Lunarians hunt down in their vijoka mecha in order to stoke feelings hope among humanity.
Once the last of the Gensokyo kaiju is destroyed (Reimu and Marisa, although they at least manage to take down Yorihime in the process), Toyohime and the rest of the Lunarians are able to proceed with the next step of their plan, focusing the hope that's been stimulated among humanity to reawaken both the moon and the Earth (which are actually lovers that got separated eons ago at the dawn of the universe, long story) resulting in humankind all being turned into satori. And that's where the story has left off for now.
Heinous Standard
Just about every act of maddened violence in the series is caused by her, since she's the one who drove the various residents of Gensokyo to go crazy in the first place. Not to mention, she was directly responsible for transforming Gensokyo's residents into kaiju, setting them loose to rampage across the world by working with Koakuma to destroy the Hakurei Barrier, and then leading the Lunarians to hunt them all down and kill them. Just about every act of misery that occurs in the series is her fault.
Mitigating Factors
While several characters on the side of the Lunar Capital have their own motives for wanting to enact the "Moonlight Descent Ceremony" (Lord Tsukuyomi, Toyo and Yori's boss, wants to reunite the Moon and Earth for some reason, and Yorihime goes along with it because it's a direct order from him) Toyohime isn't given an explicit motive, but given the disgust she expresses for humanity it's implied to be due to her Fantastic Racism against them. Everything Toyohime does to make the world a better place is Pragmatic Villainy to further the plan, and nothing else. While her sister Yorihime at one point questions their evil plan and the lengths to which it goes, Toyohime doesn't care about that at all and even seems to derive a sadistic pleasure from fooling humanity into thinking she's their savior and killing the various Gensokyo residents. Toyohime doesn't even care for her own sister, she's barely fazed when she learns she's been killed and simply decides that now is the time for the Lunarians to implement the next step of their plan.
Final Verdict
As far as fan work villains go, I would say she's a sure .
Lizzid people!
Frank, Ghidorah, Ariel and Watsuki.
Edited by AustinDR on Mar 18th 2023 at 10:21:12 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Sure to Ariel and Watatsuki.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Not the Eye
to Ghidoran, Franken, Ariel and Toyohime
Quite unpredictable
Ariel and Watatsuki no Toyohime.
Yes to Franken, Ghidorah, Ariel and Watsuki
Writeups:
Hellforces:
Baphomet is a demon, who swore loyalty to Lucifer and began conquering worlds for Hell. Creating Baphomet and Co. Corporation and deciding to conquer Earth, Baphomet had the satanic cult, called a "New Dawn", capture countless people and rip the souls out of their bodies, so that his demons can posses them and bring chaos and destruction upon humanity. Fully intending to wipe out humanity, Baphomet mocked Steven Geist's desire to avenge the death of his ex-girlfriend by calling her "a drug-addicted whore".
Alex Hacksley is the leader of a satanic cult of "New Dawn", who gleefully assists his demonic master by organizing the capture of many people, so that his cult can rip their souls out of their bodies and let "the empty vessels" be possesed by the demons. Unleashing the possesed bodies on the streets, ensuring countless deaths, Alex also kidnaps people, so that he could performs fatal experiments on them. Forcing Steven Geist to kill his possesed ex-girlfriend, Alex was determined to assist the demons in wiping out humanity.
Edited by VeryVileVillian on Mar 18th 2023 at 8:34:47 PM
to Ariel and Watatsuki
Okay so here are my write-ups:
- The Prima Macula is a sentient monstrosity responsible for the plagues, man-eating rats, and other woes occurring throughout history. The Macula would manifest itself inside children, causing them to become ill, while mentally torturing them into giving themselves over to its will, using them as vessels to spread its influence and causing suffering and deaths by the millions. Basilius was the first recorded victim of Macula’s hold, whose influence spread throughout the Byzantine Empire, causing the Justinian Plague. The Macula manifested itself again inside Hugo de Rune in the 14th century, kickstarting The Black Death in which illness and death follow Hugo, leading to the destruction of Arles. Luring Hugo to the island La Cuna, the Macula hopes to drive Hugo to despair to fully take control of his body, eventually succeeding. Its first action is to destroy Marseille, before spreading it’s influence over the Earth to consume all life. Tens of millions have already died by the time Amicia and Lucas kill Hugo to stop the Macula, whereupon the Macula latches onto an infant in the modern era, hoping to complete its cataclysmic rampage.
- Requiem: Milo is a vicious slaver who learns about the Child of Embers while working for Emilie de Arles. Cutting ties with Emilie, Milo seeks to summon the Child of Embers himself by sacrificing hundreds of his slaves, including children, by bleeding them to death, while personally killing any slave that attempts to escape. When one of his men comments on the waste of human life, Milo brutally kills him before abandoning the rest to fend off the hordes of rats. Believing Hugo to be the Child of Embers, Milo attempts to manipulate Hugo into allying with him, planning to use the boy’s powers to overthrow Emilie, her husband, and conquer all he sees.
The Prima Macula Would go on the top of the tree, while Milo would go in the bottom
Edited by G-Editor on Mar 18th 2023 at 2:09:12 PM
Ok, next up...my first proposals from Godzilla, first one coming from the IDW comic Godzilla Monsters And Protectors' sequel All Hail the King!, we have...
Who is King Ghidorah? What has he done?
Mitigating features?
Nah, he's King Ghidorah. Just a bloodthirsty sadist who wants to kill until he's the only thing left living.
Heinousness?
He wiped out a chunk of life on Earth millions of years ago, and then tries to do it again in the present, devastating several cities in the process. He's the worst thus far by a large margin, surpassing even the Xilians themselves and pulling an Eviler than Thou when they realize in horror that there's not going to be an Earth to rule over if Ghidorah wins.
Final Verdict?
Yes to another Ghidorah
Edited by Ravok on Mar 18th 2023 at 8:33:30 AM
WHAT A WONDERFUL DAY!