Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- If a work is already reserved by another user, please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.
Are they bad enough?
A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:
- Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
- The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
- The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)
Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Twiddler on Jan 17th 2024 at 5:42:49 AM
echo and Jed
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."Jed
"No running in the halls!"So Jed...ruins his brother's life? Dickish to be sure, but not sure it QUITE rises to CM level.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM DraftsHe frames him for trying to assassinate the governor and gets him locked up in a mental facility to rot, where Owen (who suffers from schizophrenia) nearly loses all hope. That's not "just" Jed ruining his life imo.
Edited by TheMadCr0w on Apr 1st 2024 at 7:44:33 AM
Oh, sure, but still not sure it QUITE rises to CM level. Mark me as a formal abstain.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM DraftsConsidering it all kicks off with Owen trying to expose Jed for sexual assault, I think all that taken together is juuuust enough quality over quantity. Yes to him
Tonight I dine on monkey soup.Yes to Jed.
- Captain America Comics:
- Issue #1's "The Riddle of the Red Skull" & issue #3's "The Return of the Red Skull": The original incarnation of George Maxon, before he was retconned into a Nazi impersonator of industrialist John Maxon, is the first to bear the visage of the Red Skull and a despicably worthy precursor to Johann Schmidt's cruelty. An American agent of Schmidt's who agreed to betray his own country, Maxon sabotages planes that he then sells to the American military, callously brushing off the resulting deaths of innocent soldiers. In his spare time, Maxon assassinates military officials; threatens his goons while sending them to rob banks; and viciously hangs two thugs he believes to be Captain America and Bucky. After surviving his first confrontation with Captain America, Maxon steals plans for a drill superweapon and uses it to kill thousands in a rampage throughout New York, intent on bringing America to ruin and even cowing the Führer himself into submission.
I have an image proposal for Bleach's Monster subpage.
Edited by CelestialDraco on Apr 1st 2024 at 6:22:03 AM
Maybe if you cut out that middle bit it could work
Hope your prepared for an unforgettable luncheonHere’s a Complete Monster quote from King Herod:
I guess Maxon goes to "Others"?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Draftsto the Herod quote
In honor of Akira ToriyamaIt's why I put him under Captain America Comics, yes.
Herod quote
Sure to Jed
Rawr.About the Bleach CM image, my biggest concern if it is clear enough to illustrate. I suggested the same image in Image Suggestion thread, and didn't get consenseous on a crowner.
Edited by StalkerGamer on Apr 1st 2024 at 9:05:02 AM
to Caine, Razanak, Jack, Echoflower and Jed Milgrim.
to Herod quote.
I don't know about the Bleech image either. I mean its clear in its blown up form he's taking a bite of them, but how will look on the page?
Edited by MGD107 on Apr 1st 2024 at 5:06:54 AM
for Razanak, Jack the Flower, Echo Flower, Jed Milgrim and the Herod quote.
Could you send a link to where you suggested it?
Edited by CelestialDraco on Apr 1st 2024 at 7:28:57 AM
for Caine, Razanak, Jack, Echo, and Jed.
Edited by TheGrayFox on Apr 1st 2024 at 5:32:49 AM
There remains a foothold out of this mire — now climb.Bumping so the effort post is not at the bottom of the page.
Echo
Let's celebrate with April Fools with another Mind Screw-y show that toys with its audience, my favorites.
What is the work? Maniac (2018) is a Netflix original starring Emma Stone and Jonah Hill. From the page itself:
Thanks to Dr. Mantleray's experiment, Annie and Owen are brought to a Journey to the Center of the Mind, and have to deal with their inner demons and mental struggles manifesting themselves as everything from mobsters and government agents to high-fantasy elves. Despite its surreal premise, we'll be discussing a very real monster, and the reason for much of Owen's suffering.
Who is he?
Mitagating Factors? The show makes it clear that his pleasantness when socializing with his family is all part of his Mask of Sanity—all of the Milgrims, with the exception of Owen, are extremely shallow people—the narrative shows us that his engagement with Adelaide is also not mitigating at all. He explictly says to Owen that he's afraid that the trial will humiliate him, and then we have not only the scenario with Jed non-chalantly killing Adelaide but the fact Adelaide herself is not happy with their relationship, she's visibly uncomfortable around Jed and even takes drugs to deal with "post-dinner conversations".
Heinous? One of those cases where quality triumphs over quantity. His abuse of Owen and his decision to break his spirit as revenge for having given a woman justice makes me think he qualifies, even if barely. His only real "rival" here is the Big Bad Gertie, a supercomputer with a taste for "collecting" the consciouness of people and keeping them as prisoners, leaving their original bodies catatonic—Gertie herself doesn't qualify, her villainy and unstable personality are portrayed as being a byproduct of Gertie not knowing how to deal with her own human emotions.
Conclusion? Weak
Edited by TheMadCr0w on Apr 1st 2024 at 7:23:10 AM