Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- If a work is already reserved by another user, please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.
Are they bad enough?
A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:
- Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
- The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
- The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)
Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Twiddler on Jan 17th 2024 at 5:42:49 AM
A Girl, Just One of Many Kinds
Yes to Tarkin!
Alrighty, let’s do one more ETN candidate today, this time, The Big Bad of season 4
Who is The Collector? What Does She Do?
- Once a benevolent queen ruling a kingdom, she became power hungry as she had plans to break the circle of life by gaining immortality. Getting the Cosmic Sphere, The Collector created The Museum of The Dead, located in Purgatory, stealing individuals from different time periods and trapping them within her museum.
- Some of these individuals have had a pretty hellish fate. Examples are The Mummy, who is trapped in a cycle of hate and revenge due to being betrayed by his wife; The Genie, who was kidnapped and forcibly enslaved as he is stuck in chains; Merlin, who is mentally started losing it due to how long he’s been stuck inside Camelot exhibit. With that, she also forcibly transformed a former Society Againts Evil member, Jael’s sister, into the monstrous Gorgon.
- She is responsible for the YouTubers who died over the three seasons being trapped in Purgatory, having 9 of them trapped inside crystal tomb, while the others had their souls forcibly placed in a jar, something which she taunts with as she muses that she “enjoys a good soul or two.” When Liza escapes her crustal tomb and warms Joey, The Collector impales her and traps her soul into the jar once more.
- When Joey, alongside Bretman, frees the YouTubers, and manages to get power back (which results in their deaths apart from Joey, Bretman, and Colleen) The Collector comes back and shows complete anger, and decides to have the, all killed and their souls be sent to Hell to suffer for all eternity. She summons all their previous enemies over the seasons to have them hunted before she fights The Sorceress. She manages to kill the Sorceress, but Joey manages to stab her with The Swords of All Legends, turning her to stone.
Mitigating Factors?
Nope. She’s simply a power hungry control freak.
Heinous Standard?
While not having a high kill count like Arthur, the Sorceress and The Carnival Master, The Collector is a bit more nasty on her Niche. She’s responsible for trapping many people through the centuries within the museum, showing to have personally trapped several people into Fate Worse than Death’s like The Mummy, Genie, Merlin, as well as forcibly transforming an innocent woman into The Gorgon to have her transform people into stone for her own will. She also is responsible for trapping all the YouTubers, having many of their souls stolen within jars while having the others trapped inside crystal, and then decided to try and kill the survivors so their souls will forever be damned to hell. Without having the help of the Cursed God himself, she’s pretty fine here on her own account.
Verdict?
Yup!
Keep Fighting. Keep Loving.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Can we get a comparison of the four? Seems like they all kill a bunch of people.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
pronounced 'Scraggle'
I'm saying yes to the Collector, but I think a no to the Carnival Master, on account of the fact the Collector is going the extra step to inflict And I Must Scream fates on her victims. In a series where every single Big Bad is a serial killer, that's the kind of niche that makes all the others seems tame.
Edited by Starkrafty on Mar 13th 2024 at 6:31:41 AM
Watch for the sign of the Saint — he will be back!
A Girl, Just One of Many Kinds
Sure of course! With the four all of the, are responsible for at least 8-9 of the YouTubers dying so for individual acts we have:
- Arthur: Murdered his wife, something he done seemingly a lot, kidnapped and imprisoned his brother, encouraged a few people into killing others to hide the artifacts, kept 4 of the house previous residence trapped in the house (one of whom is a Hate Sink), blew up the taxi driver at episode one, planned to brainwashed Joey, Oli and Eva.
- The Sorceress: Had her personified goodness form tortured through her powers, killed 4 people herself onscreen, planned to invade the human world to overtake it and rule everything, attempted to kill The Collector to take control of the museum.
- The Carnival Master: Manipulated multiple people to turn them into monsters, including his own daughter (who he turned into a sexual deviant), killed 5 people onscreen, and attempted to make a curse so The Cursed God can feed on the souls of the town’s citizens
- The Collector: Kidnapped and trapped various people from many generations and decades for her exhibit. Leaving many of them (like the ones I listed) in states of mania, misery or otherwise slowly losing their minds, turned a woman into a medusa like figure so she can transform others into stone, trapped the YouTubers’ souls into a jar so taunts over and attempts to have Joey, Bretman and Colleen slaughtered by their enemies so they’ll be damned to hell forever.
Arthur has the least resources, being a simple man who allied with a haunted house.
The Sorceress and Carnival Master allied with The Cursed God, a giant ancient evil with extreme power with Sorceress and Carnival Master having very much extreme power
The Collector can have the ability to travel through time, without having Allies with higher demons.
Edited by MermaidEyes15 on Mar 13th 2024 at 8:30:13 AM
Keep Fighting. Keep Loving.
The Ultimate Lifeform
A Child from the Stars
A Girl, Just One of Many Kinds
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Will go the extra step and say that The Carnival Master has the biggest attempted kill count given he has attempted to have an entire town be consumed by The Cursed God, plus his actions towards his own daughter.
I think The Collector and Carnival Master are similar to each other a bit with their Fate Worse than Death’s, but they have their own unique niche’s to help balance each other out
Edited by MermaidEyes15 on Mar 13th 2024 at 8:35:29 AM
Keep Fighting. Keep Loving.
Not the Eye
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
The Collector
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Hmm, Starkrafty may have a point. Collector stands out. Arthur MAYBE because of his few resources.
Cursed God count, or is he not seen enough?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Honesty gonna agree with the account that was once Scraggle here... the others are just blurring to me.
pronounced 'Scraggle'
I'm not even sure that pushes the Carnival Master, TBQH. The Carnival Master has the backing of an eldritch god, whereas the Collector is an otherwise mundane with the ability to time travel. Without the Carnival Master's resources, he subjects nearly every single one of his victims to a horrible and distinctive And I Must Scream fate that, IMO, easily rival the horror of what the Carnival Master does to his daughter.
It's a weird case where I think quality beats out quantity, but the Collector is so freaking bad—and with half the resources—that you'd have trouble swaying me on any of the other big bads (except maybe Arthur, who as you said is a fuck-off nobody compared to everyone else).
Edited by Starkrafty on Mar 13th 2024 at 6:41:57 AM
Watch for the sign of the Saint — he will be back!
A Girl, Just One of Many Kinds
The Cursed God I might do tomorrow along with the remaining candidates
I think he just has enough personality with a few of his lines of a malovalent demon who enjoys death. Flat, but still a character non the less and is responsible for the Sorceress and Carnival Master’s actions.
And with The Carnival Master, I’d again say he makes him in body count and his curroption of people, most notable turning his daughter into a depraved deviant.
The last 3 candidates are really much low tier characters without any real resources, appearing in the three seasons. I think all three have different reasons of counting themselves.
I mean, Carnival Master also does that to some others. Like Benjamin who he transforms into a monstrous being without much identity as well as Willie, who brain becomes curropted into a sadistic psychopath. And of course his daughter, who is transformed into a crazed sexual deviant after getting her to kill her boyfriend mind you. His manipulations of completely innocent people to make them into monstrous killers are really bad on it’s own, and he was planning on doing it many times to fully corrupt the town of evermore so all it’s souls will be feasted upon.
I personally think both even each other out with their own quality.
Also to make a small correction, that If I accidentally caused I apologize, I wouldn’t say almost every single one has a horrific fate, some of them don’t fully mind their situation (mainly The Pirates, the Chinese Emperor, Caveman, and Dark Knight) the main ones we see are really treated awfully are Mummy, Merlin, Genie, Gorgon and The YouTubers. Which imo, line up with The Carnival Masters’ list of victims with horrible fates (Benjamin, The Snake Lady, Willie, His own daughter, plus the entire town which he attempts to sell the whole ass souls to, which is shown to be quiet a good chunk of innocents being killed).
I think his kill count as well as his extra kick the dog moments, like him manipulating an elderly toy owner into getting a cursed doll which later murders him brutally and having his daughter mutilate and murder her boyfriend to earn his “respect” while also acting as the main Corrupter within the story gives him major help imo
Edited by MermaidEyes15 on Mar 13th 2024 at 9:07:48 AM
Keep Fighting. Keep Loving.
A Girl, Just One of Many Kinds
![[nja]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/user_ninja_2074.png "[nja]"){kind=small}
Edited by MermaidEyes15 on Mar 13th 2024 at 9:07:42 AM
Keep Fighting. Keep Loving.
Woagh
to the Collector, ![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_down_emote.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
to the Sorceress and the Carnival Master.
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
Saw this on the Collector’s character page:
- Well-Intentioned Extremist: If the season's theme "Warning Rune" is anything to go by, it is implied there that she is trying to keep the dead YouTubers safe from a greater threat, according to some interpretations.
Is this Alternative Character Interpretation? Kinda sounds like it.
Edited by MasterN on Mar 13th 2024 at 8:32:04 AM
One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
A Girl, Just One of Many Kinds
Yeah absolutely ACI, zero actual evidence supports her as an extremist and she shows no qualms trying to rip apart the survivors and send them to hell.
Keep Fighting. Keep Loving.
Gentle Laborer
Collector
Sorceress and Carnival Master
...Phenomenal
for Collector, but switching to abstain on Carnival Master.
for The Collector.
for the Sorcress and the Carnival Master.
Dagded Dujardin
Abstain on the Carnival Master
Now here's Dagded's draft:
- Ohsama Sentai King-Ohger: Dagded Dujarin is the leader of the Galactinsects and self-proclaimed "King of the Universe". Growing bored of his duty as a Destroyer Deity with the role of balancing the universe, Dagded turned to manipulating the inhabitants of each planet into turning on each other in massive and bloody civil wars that led to the destruction of the entire world, and directly sending his minions to interfere when he felt like it. Setting his sights on Tikyuu once its first human inhabitants arrived as refugees from another civil war he provoked on Earth, he manipulates the royal lineage of Shugoddam by forcing their kings to do war with the peaceful Bugnaarok (who he had prior driven out of their own planet) lest he destroys the entire planet. Centuries later, he sets his sights again on the Earth of the World of Kyoryuger, restoring the Deboth Army and aiding them so they can defeat the Kyoryuger and enslave humanity. After Jeramie ascends to the throne of Bugnaarok and attempts to make peace with the other kingdoms, Dagded executes its former leader Desnaarok, for standing down peacefully then orders a genocide of the entire nation, with only Jeramie, Gerojim and a few Sanagim surviving by hiding away, when he discovers this, he punishes Kamejim for failing to kill them all. After Gira is revealed to have been created by him as means of controlling the Shugods, he attempts to brainwash him so he can be reduced to a soulless living weapon for his own uses. Uncaring about his minions even when they are defeated for good, Dagded only takes action once the Ohsama Sentai have defied him long enough, attempting to give them and their planet A Fate Worse Than Death then freeze Tikyuu solid in its devastated state to add it to his personal collection of similarly ruined worlds out of spite.
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
No probs
Edited by VengefulBale on Mar 13th 2024 at 11:42:08 AM
"Bingo! If two species hate each other, they will wipe each other out on their own."
Goku Black
collector.
carnival master
Unofficial co-Wiki Curator for Magnificent Bastard
Collector (not that one)
Could you move Dagded's draft to the Drafts page?
MB Pending | MB Drafts | MB Dates
RIP Toriyama
Sure to the Collector
Tonight I dine on monkey soup.
RIP Toriyama
Bumping to avoid page bottom
- Starry Eyes: The Producer of Astraeus Pictures seems to be a sleazy creep who abuses actresses in exchange for granting them roles, but he's revealed to be something far darker. The leader of a cult that worships the being Astraeus, the Producer not only rapes young starlets while promising them fame, but he also subjects them to vile Body Horror and Mind Rape that slowly corrupt them into loyal cultists. To solidify their servitude, the Producer has the women carry out "sacrifices" and murder several of their loved ones. The Producer does it all in service of sheer hedonistic ambition, and ends the film having turned Sarah into his latest convert.
Edited by Ravok on Mar 14th 2024 at 1:00:56 AM
Tonight I dine on monkey soup.
Abstaining on MX.
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_down_emote.png "[thumb down]")
for Sorceress
There remains a foothold out of this mire — now climb.