Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the new Complete Monster (CM) cleanup thread! This thread is where we clean up or cut already-existing entries.
If you're looking to add new entries, please see the approval thread.
IMPORTANT: Before you begin any discussions on this thread, please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List. Here, you'll find explanations of the criteria for the trope as well as our rules/procedures for approving and cutting candidates.
What goes through this thread?
- Cut requests. If you believe a CM has been approved and they do not count, this thread is where you propose their removal. To know how to go about this, please see the FAQ folder on the Administrivia page, where the process is explained in detail.
- If we ever need to consider cutting multiple examples without individually reviewing them (e.g. if we discover widespread plagiarism with a particular troper's CMs), the initial discussion will be on this thread and we'll then escalate to the mod team (as described here) to get a formal consensus if we decide to recommend a mass cut.
- If an entry was put on the wrong subpage/YMMV page, you may propose where they should be moved to.
- Full rewrites of existing entries, including expansions, trims, and ground-up rewrites. If your rewrite is approved by the thread, feel free to add it to the drafts page so that other users can check grammar and the like before it is included with the rest of the weekly swaps.
- If an entry on a work's YMMV page doesn't match the entry on the media subpage, you can bring it here to discuss which entry works better.
What does not go through this thread?
- New candidate proposals - as stated before, those are done on this thread.
- Unapproved wicks - if a Troper encounters either of these kinds of wicks, they can be cut with no approval.
- Any CM link on a non-YMMV page - as a YMMV trope, it should not be linked on those pages regardless of any cleanup effort. The only exception is if the wick is being used within the definition of another trope.
- If an CM link on a YMMV page refers to an unapproved character. If it refers to an approved character on any such page, the wick can stay. On the other hand, if the unapproved character being linked to sounds like they might have promise (and you don't feel like checking it out for yourself), feel free to mention it on the approval thread - someone may already know why they don't count, or it could invite a brand new discussion!
- Proposals for images, quotes, and videos of already-approved CMs - quotes and images are proposed on the approval thread, while videos can be uploaded normally as they are screened for approval by the moderation.
- Crosswicking examples to YMMV pages - if an example has already been approved and added to the main page, you do not require any special permission to add the example to a work's YMMV page (assuming the work has a page already). If a YMMV page doesn't exist yet, then you can make it yourself, but either way, feel free to just add the example without asking.
- Small changes to existing entries - these can simply be done on a Troper's own prerogative with no approval.
- Spelling and grammar fixes.
- Pothole changes.
- Minor rewordings.
- Spoiler tags.
While these changes do not require any kind of approval, it is requested that should you make any of these changes, you do one of the following:
- Make the same changes on the relevant Sandbox page, then add the Sandbox to the list at the bottom of the drafts page. This will add the Sandbox to the weekly swaps and ensure that the edits end up on the relevant locked page. If the Sandbox is already listed, then once you make the edits, your job is already done!
- If you don't know how the Sandboxes work or simply don't have the time to find it, then you can simply post on the thread about the changes you made. Someone else can then make the edit on the relevant Sandbox and add it to the weekly swaps.
- Alternatively, you can simply request that the change be made directly to the locked page on the Locked Pages thread. Members of this thread keep track of that one, so we will ensure that the changes are made in the Sandbox so that it doesn't get deleted during the next swap.
Again, these changes don't require any approval, but we prefer to keep the entries on the YMMV pages and the locked pages the same in order to avoid any miscommunication or errors between entries, so if you do make the change, we would greatly appreciate it if you could ensure the change is made on the locked page as well.
As a final note, we do not care what other sites have to say regarding whether or not a character counts. We have our own criteria and they have theirs for their CM equivalents; while they are similar, they are not exactly the same and should not be treated as such. Another site removing a character from their equivalent should not be a reason why a cut is proposed here, and if this is the case, it will likely lead to mod intervention.
Other than this, once again, welcome to the cleanup thread, and we look forward to your contributions!
Edited by Mrph1 on Jan 14th 2024 at 11:30:03 AM
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Lightysnake: So 15 out of around 291 note distinct.
I heard how bad it is, but I doubted it when I saw it has its own page. It sums up now.
Edited by Mr-ex777 on Mar 24th 2023 at 12:08:19 AM
Oh we’ve cut so many from that show
For both tropes, should we maybe have a section on the page devoted to keepers where they're virtually the same in an adaptation of the medium they're originally from so they carry over and count for both—and so that doing so would also mean we avoid padding pages with unnecessary entries? If this is a bad idea, please disregard. It's just a suggestion.
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
I meant that we'd move such keepers to that section rather than have them in two places at once. Yeah, if somebody really wants to know though, they just have to either look it up or ask instead.
Edited by futuremoviewriter on Mar 23rd 2023 at 10:54:58 AM
I believe that would just be padding
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Yeah, believe me, we've THOROUGHLY mined Criminal Minds. I remember because I myself watched several eps and proposed culling some. The ones who remain either stand out in terms of quality (Roycewood, Wyland, the Human Traffickers); sheer quantity (Merva, Vasher, Crossford's attempt); or both (Foyet).
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Goku Black
This is not what the site does? Medium of origin takes precdence if the adapataion and source are the same. Its what we did with all the light novel stuff.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Yeah, the ONLY exceptions are where the latter work is better-known, and even then it'd go on both medium pages.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
The Draftsman of Doom
This post was thumped by the Merciless Hammer of Doom
Unofficial co-Wiki Curator for Magnificent Bastard
You could make this announcement in the Restarting the CM and MB threads in Wiki Talk as well, but I agree nevertheless.
MB Pending | MB Drafts | MB Dates
The Draftsman of Doom
After reconsideration, I am withdrawing my resolution. Carry on.
Feels good, don't it?
Buzz
@Dervos, for Lord Commander's Entry, I'd suggest the following:
- He lures his enemies: He lures Gary and Avocato (since these are the only two characters who actually land on the planet, we can be more specific as to who the enemies are)
- culminating in the latter: forcing the latter ("forcing" is more accurate and works better to show LC's evilness)
- Afterwards, the Lord Commander traps Mooncake... (Otherwise, the entry randomly jumps from the previous point to the next point)
- Resurrected by Invictus, the Lord Commander is revealed to be responsible for Avocato murdering Little Cato's birth family. He goes on to betray Invictus...: The Lord Commander is also revealed to be responsible for Avocato murdering Little Cato's birth family. After being resurrected by Invictus, he goes on to betray him...
Edited by Paperfly on Mar 23rd 2023 at 3:14:39 AM
Image Pickin' Backlog
Lizzid people!
Are the changes really necessary? Like if it is grammatically incorrect or factually inaccurate, that is one thing.
So I got another one of mine that may need to go. From the trashtacular Ballistic: Ecks vs. Sever:
- Ballistic: Ecks vs. Sever: Robert Gant is the corrupt head of the DIA who wants to corner the assassin market with killer nanobots. Gant is responsible for stealing the families of both lead characters, one metaphorically, one literally; Gant conducts an elaborate ruse to fake the death of Jeremiah Ecks so he could marry Ecks's wife and use their son as an incubator for the nanobots, and murdered Sever's entire family after she "broke profile" from the trained killer she was supposed to be. Obsessed with power and profit, Gant murders his own minions; trains little girls like Sever as killers; endangers and threatens to murder his adopted family; and has no qualms causing mass death so long as he gets something out of it.
Gant doesn't have any redeeming qualities, but on a rewatch, we can boil his crimes down to:
- raising child soldiers (Offstage Villainy, except for Sever)
- killing Sever's husband and child (Offstage Villainy, but the driving motivation for her to go rogue so IG we can count it)
- tricking one of his goons into killing himself (nasty Bad Boss moment, but not a huge qualifier on its own)
- marrying into Ecks' family to use them as hostages
- some vaguely defined plans about wanting to corner the assassin market with a nanobot scheme
I think, on a revisit, the "mass death" entailed in the entry is reliant on a bit too much Fridge Horror to qualify him. There's no indication of any mass casualty event he's deliberately plotting with the nanomachines, they're kinda just the MacGuffin he's interested in. And while his personal villainy is pretty evil, let's remember this is an action movie. We expect people to die—and they do, in droves, but usually at the hands of Sever who is pursuing her own Roaring Rampage of Revenge. Most of her casualties are still baddies, but Designated Villain mooks and cops at worst, so that's still not a glowing endorsement for Gant's body count being so low.
Weirdly enough, while I'm vouching for him to be cut, we'll have another version of him up—from, of all things, the first Game Boy Advance version (yes, there were two of them, and both are better than the movie). That one was based on an early script of the movie, where Gant is far nastier.
Edited by Scraggle on Mar 23rd 2023 at 4:11:07 AM
Cut Robert
I have some grammatic correction regarding an antry at Video Games: G to K:
There are two "a" after the word "is", which results in the entry looking wrong. I propose to fix it from "The Fallen Third is aa demonic being" to "The Fallen Third is a demonic being".
Edited by VeryVileVillian on Mar 23rd 2023 at 1:26:03 PM
I need to think on Gant either way. If they're making what the nanotechnology could do to just one person explicit enough like seeing what Calisto could do to just one person as a weapon and Bosley planning to sell it—then again, to multiple groups, it could make his actions explicit enough for him to stay. Then again, Ballistic: Ecks Vs. Sever is a terrible movie and it's not worth really debating or defending (haha)—and much like with both the novelization and video game versions of Crane/Scarecrow, a more explicit and distinct version may cut the legs out from under the film version because of that.
Bottom line: I don't care either way right now.
Edited by futuremoviewriter on Mar 23rd 2023 at 3:33:28 AM
Gonna lean cut on the basis of another character wracking up a sizeable bodycount. Alone I'd be more inclined to keep him but I think Scraggle makes a good point about much of the death (especially if they're on Designated Villain level) being on the hands of a more sympathetic character.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
I guess the child soldiers part with Sever could be considered enough for a pattern, which MAY be enough? Or is it not really given enough weight?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Like I said, Sever's the only onscreen victim, and while we are informed he has other victims who underwent a similar Dark and Troubled Past to Sever, it's through one quick line, IIRC.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Hmm, if it's just one line...yeah, I'm fine with cutting.
Mind taking care of it at the former CM page?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Not the Eye
Cut Robert
Anyone mind if I cover the Furie prequel? Need to watch it and the title alone likely means we're cutting Thanh Soi. I'll be covering Constant Gardener, the Stan Tucci zombie thing and the games I mentioned in between my reservations
Edited by Lightysnake on Mar 24th 2023 at 7:52:18 AM
Goku Black
Cut Gant
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Cut Gant
Alright. Official ![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_down_emote.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
to keeping Gant.
There's dissonance as to what Grutas's entry is supposed to look like. Three different versions actually. I was taking care of it myself, but decided to undo the changes I made and wanted to loop the thread in so ~ACW could use their own discretion about it instead.
On both the Film Lit and Sandbox pages:
- Hannibal Rising: Vladis Grutas is a vicious war criminal that escaped justice in World War II. A member of the collaborating Lithuanian militias, Grutas led the sack of a small town and personally executed Jewish prisoners. He executed one Rabbi by sawing his head off. During the winter, Grutas and his men took refuge in a small building with a young Hannibal and his baby sister Mischa inside. Grutas, to stave off hunger, decapitated Mischa with an axe and had her cooked and fed to the others. In the present, Grutas is a mob boss who uses murder and prostitution to further profits. When he and Hannibal fight to the end, Grutas takes pleasure in mocking Hannibal how he also fed him his own sister in the winter years ago.
On the YMMV— ACW's last edited version:
- Complete Monster: Vladis Grutas is a vicious war criminal who escaped justice in World War II. A member of the collaborating Lithuanian militias, Grutas led the sack of a small town and personally executed Jewish prisoners. One Rabbi was executed by Grutas sawing his head off. During the winter, Grutas and his men took refuge in a small building with a young Hannibal and his baby sister Mischa inside. Grutas, to stave off hunger, decapitated Mischa with an axe and had her cooked and fed to the others. In the present, Grutas is a mob boss who uses murder and prostitution to further profits. When he and Hannibal fight to the end, Grutas takes pleasure in mocking Hannibal how he also fed him his own sister in the winter years ago.
Unapproved YMMV edit by another troper since then—I think the GSV pothole in Grutas's name was the only thing added though actually (so up to ACW whether or not it stays):
- Complete Monster: Vladis Grutas is a vicious war criminal who escaped justice in World War II. A member of the collaborating Lithuanian militias, Grutas led the sack of a small town and personally executed Jewish prisoners. One Rabbi was executed by Grutas sawing his head off. During the winter, Grutas and his men took refuge in a small building with a young Hannibal and his baby sister Mischa inside. Grutas, to stave off hunger, decapitated Mischa with an axe and had her cooked and fed to the others. In the present, Grutas is a mob boss who uses murder and prostitution to further profits. When he and Hannibal fight to the end, Grutas takes pleasure in mocking Hannibal how he also fed him his own sister in the winter years ago.
I undid the unapproved bit on the YMMV and put it back to how ACW previously had it there. Also, the entry for the book version of Verger has the line "serious of violent rapes" rather than "series of violent rapes". That I fixed myself in both the YMMV and Sandbox though.
Edited by futuremoviewriter on Mar 24th 2023 at 9:00:55 AM
On Monster.Anime And Manga A To F: the Arifureta: From Commonplace to World's Strongest example needs to be moved to Literature and the anime notation removed. The LN is the sole source for most of what's in there: Ehitorujue's full name hasn't even been given in the anime yet (season 2 concludes at the end of volume 6, though a third season has been confirmed) and everything he did is Offscreen Villainy or done through Mooks until he pulls Grand Theft Me on Yue in like volume 11 or so.
EDIT: Typo.
EDIT 2: Mods handled it from the locked pages thread.
Edited by StarSword on Mar 26th 2023 at 9:45:05 AM