Follow TV Tropes

Following

Needs Help: Nerd

Go To

To-do list:

    Original post 
OP courtesy of ~amathieu 13 who gave others permission to launch this thread.

I noticed some vague examples for the trope while wick cleaning for Hollywood Nerd and discussed it here which led me to doing a wick check.

Total Wicks Checked = 100

Issue 1 is big in scope but I think is a fairly straightforward fix and that's the fairly extensive ZCE issue. Nearly half of all wicks are ZCE, not including random potholes in sentences which makes up another 12% of wicks. Substantial uses of the trope make up only 40% of examples.

  • I think the name is causing some of this since, as a one word title for a fairly common word, people are just plopping it in and calling it a day. If we make the name slightly less "plop down-able" it could curb some of this behavior. Something like Nerd Archetype or Stereotypical Nerd. To make sure the ZC Es are fixed, we'd probably just need to follow up with some wick cleaning.

Issue 2, and the bigger problem I think, is the misuse. From what I understand, the Nerd is an Archetypal Character with the following traits:
  • stereotypical bad fashion, with the classic representation being plaid button down shirt or a polo, high waisted belted pants, suspenders, and a pocket protector (but other not trendy fashion can fit)
  • not physically attractive due to Geek Physique and a lack of care about outer appearance, often times this includes acne, thick Nerd Glasses, braces, and unstylish hair
  • socially awkward in some way (shy and clams up when talking to people, talks too much and can't read the room, etc)
  • unpopular. This can be as little as them not occupying a high spot in the Popularity Food Chain, but still having a friend/a small circle of friends or can mean they are a complete loner amongst their peers
  • victim of bullying or teasing, especially by the most popular students
  • interests in "nerdy" hobbies that are typically non-mainstream and niche subcultures based on things you need a deep knowledge (be it technical or lore based) to enjoy, e.g. tech, sci-fi works, fantasy works, anime, collecting things, etc.

There are some other traits that can show up to give the nerd a different "flavor" (being genuinely intelligent, pedantic about their topic of interest, turning typically mundane or casual things into Serious Business, etc), but the core seems to be what's listed above and that's more or less discussed in the current trope description. Much like other archetypes like the Messianic Archetype and Satanic Archetype, not every box needs to be checked but the majority do need to be to qualify.

However, people are treating the trope less like a defined stereotype and more like a personality trait. For example, several tropers give a character who just says the read comic books this trope, despite that not being enough to fulfill the stereotype. Of the remaining 40 wicks, 45% of them are correct (or 18% of the total 100 wicks). The remaining wicks fall into 2 categories: a person who shows interest in niche or otherwise considered "geeky" interests like Tabletop games, video games, tech and computers, and the hard sciences; a person who is smart or has an in-depth knowledge on a particular topic (often one that is also considered "geeky").

  • Other than the name change and clean up of wicks, I'm not sure how to fix this. Perhaps tweaking the description a bit so it more straightforwardly lists the traits (like how Messianic Archetype and Satanic Archetype do) and explicitly states characters need to meet some min number of the characteristics to qualify might help.
  • I've also been mulling over whether we can conform to the misuse somewhat by directing all of the "has geeky interests" examples to Geek, which is currently definition only, or Otaku, Fanboy, Fangirl (though these last 3 are both more specific and more nebulous and may need to be looked at themselves, so maybe not). The "just is smart" examples can probably be cut entirely or redirected to The Smart Guy if the character is part of a team/group.

Edited by MacronNotes on Oct 5th 2022 at 6:47:27 AM

MacronNotes (she/her) (Captain) Relationship Status: Less than three
(she/her)
#1: Jun 23rd 2022 at 3:12:39 PM

To-do list:

    Original post 
OP courtesy of ~amathieu 13 who gave others permission to launch this thread.

I noticed some vague examples for the trope while wick cleaning for Hollywood Nerd and discussed it here which led me to doing a wick check.

Total Wicks Checked = 100

Issue 1 is big in scope but I think is a fairly straightforward fix and that's the fairly extensive ZCE issue. Nearly half of all wicks are ZCE, not including random potholes in sentences which makes up another 12% of wicks. Substantial uses of the trope make up only 40% of examples.

  • I think the name is causing some of this since, as a one word title for a fairly common word, people are just plopping it in and calling it a day. If we make the name slightly less "plop down-able" it could curb some of this behavior. Something like Nerd Archetype or Stereotypical Nerd. To make sure the ZC Es are fixed, we'd probably just need to follow up with some wick cleaning.

Issue 2, and the bigger problem I think, is the misuse. From what I understand, the Nerd is an Archetypal Character with the following traits:
  • stereotypical bad fashion, with the classic representation being plaid button down shirt or a polo, high waisted belted pants, suspenders, and a pocket protector (but other not trendy fashion can fit)
  • not physically attractive due to Geek Physique and a lack of care about outer appearance, often times this includes acne, thick Nerd Glasses, braces, and unstylish hair
  • socially awkward in some way (shy and clams up when talking to people, talks too much and can't read the room, etc)
  • unpopular. This can be as little as them not occupying a high spot in the Popularity Food Chain, but still having a friend/a small circle of friends or can mean they are a complete loner amongst their peers
  • victim of bullying or teasing, especially by the most popular students
  • interests in "nerdy" hobbies that are typically non-mainstream and niche subcultures based on things you need a deep knowledge (be it technical or lore based) to enjoy, e.g. tech, sci-fi works, fantasy works, anime, collecting things, etc.

There are some other traits that can show up to give the nerd a different "flavor" (being genuinely intelligent, pedantic about their topic of interest, turning typically mundane or casual things into Serious Business, etc), but the core seems to be what's listed above and that's more or less discussed in the current trope description. Much like other archetypes like the Messianic Archetype and Satanic Archetype, not every box needs to be checked but the majority do need to be to qualify.

However, people are treating the trope less like a defined stereotype and more like a personality trait. For example, several tropers give a character who just says the read comic books this trope, despite that not being enough to fulfill the stereotype. Of the remaining 40 wicks, 45% of them are correct (or 18% of the total 100 wicks). The remaining wicks fall into 2 categories: a person who shows interest in niche or otherwise considered "geeky" interests like Tabletop games, video games, tech and computers, and the hard sciences; a person who is smart or has an in-depth knowledge on a particular topic (often one that is also considered "geeky").

  • Other than the name change and clean up of wicks, I'm not sure how to fix this. Perhaps tweaking the description a bit so it more straightforwardly lists the traits (like how Messianic Archetype and Satanic Archetype do) and explicitly states characters need to meet some min number of the characteristics to qualify might help.
  • I've also been mulling over whether we can conform to the misuse somewhat by directing all of the "has geeky interests" examples to Geek, which is currently definition only, or Otaku, Fanboy, Fangirl (though these last 3 are both more specific and more nebulous and may need to be looked at themselves, so maybe not). The "just is smart" examples can probably be cut entirely or redirected to The Smart Guy if the character is part of a team/group.

Edited by MacronNotes on Oct 5th 2022 at 6:47:27 AM

Macron's notes
MacronNotes (she/her) (Captain) Relationship Status: Less than three
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#3: Jun 23rd 2022 at 3:33:09 PM

Maybe turn into an index since Nerd is so broqd and launch sterotypical nerd as it's own thing

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
MacronNotes (she/her) (Captain) Relationship Status: Less than three
(she/her)
#4: Jun 23rd 2022 at 3:41:27 PM

We already have Indexed and Nerdy though. Maybe we can redirect Nerd there and transplant the stereotype to Nerd Stereotype?

Or just have Nerd as a definition only page like Geek?

Edited by MacronNotes on Jun 23rd 2022 at 6:42:25 AM

Macron's notes
Hello83433 (Lucky 7) Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
#5: Jun 23rd 2022 at 3:45:30 PM

[up] That's what I was thinking, although that doesn't get rid of the "plop a pothole" problem.

CSP Cleanup Thread | All that I ask for ... is diamonds and dance floors
Tabs Since: Jan, 2001
#6: Jun 23rd 2022 at 4:14:18 PM

I think with the loose requirements, it's best to redirect to Indexed and Nerdy or make definition only.

Berrenta How sweet it is from Texas Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
How sweet it is
Synchronicity (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#8: Jun 23rd 2022 at 4:47:53 PM

Looking at the wick check we have enough correct examples (18) for a small "stereotypical nerd" page.

I'm in favor of redirecting Nerd to Indexed and Nerdy and splitting off Nerd Stereotype.

callmeamuffin ❀ Mint, Nuts, and Waffle ❀ from the kitchen (Trinitroper) Relationship Status: Thinkin' about you, muffin
❀ Mint, Nuts, and Waffle ❀
WarJay77 Big Catch, Sparkle Edition from The Void (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
#10: Jun 23rd 2022 at 5:32:41 PM

Redirect to the index and make a stereotype trope [tup]

Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
themayorofsimpleton Now a lurker. Thanks for everything. | he/him from Elsewhere (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: Abstaining
amathieu13 Since: Aug, 2013
#12: Jun 23rd 2022 at 6:50:38 PM

Yes, there are enough for a stereotypical nerd example and I'd like to keep that intact as much as possible.

Redirecting to the index is also good with me.

Yindee Just stoic wisdom. from New England Since: Jul, 2016
Just stoic wisdom.
GastonRabbit Sounds good on paper (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
Amonimus the Retromancer from <<|Wiki Talk|>> (Sergeant) Relationship Status: In another castle
the Retromancer
#15: Jun 23rd 2022 at 10:15:30 PM

Redirect and yard Nerd Stereotype, also adjust Hollywood Nerd to not have a redirect as a disambig target.

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
Willbyr Hi (Y2K) Relationship Status: With my statistically significant other
GastonRabbit Sounds good on paper (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
themayorofsimpleton Now a lurker. Thanks for everything. | he/him from Elsewhere (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: Abstaining
Now a lurker. Thanks for everything. | he/him
themayorofsimpleton Now a lurker. Thanks for everything. | he/him from Elsewhere (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: Abstaining
Now a lurker. Thanks for everything. | he/him
MacronNotes (she/her) (Captain) Relationship Status: Less than three
(she/her)
#20: Jun 26th 2022 at 7:13:58 AM

Made the crowner. I wanted to include the split option into the crowner but wasn't sure how so I gave the split option it's own crowner item so that people can vote redirect or definition only independent of spinning off the Nerd Stereotype trope. We have enough to make a Nerd Stereotype trope through TRS instead of just yarding and people have suggested the split option on the thread so I thought it should be on the crowner.

Macron's notes
Amonimus the Retromancer from <<|Wiki Talk|>> (Sergeant) Relationship Status: In another castle
the Retromancer
#21: Jun 26th 2022 at 7:24:24 AM

Would a specific option combination effectively mean this trope be transplanted into Nerd Stereotype name, and "Nerd" be left as redirect/disambig?

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
MacronNotes (she/her) (Captain) Relationship Status: Less than three
(she/her)
#22: Jun 26th 2022 at 7:31:23 AM

Yeah, that is possible.

EDIT: Didn't think the split option would get most votes out of anything on the crowner.

Edited by MacronNotes on Jun 26th 2022 at 4:10:41 AM

Macron's notes
GastonRabbit MOD Sounds good on paper (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
#23: Jun 28th 2022 at 10:46:35 PM

Calling in favor of redirecting to Indexed and Nerdy and splitting off Nerd Stereotype. I also added a to-do list to the opening post and pinned it (at least I think I pinned it; it doesn't show up unless the thread has more than one page).

Edited by GastonRabbit on Jun 28th 2022 at 12:48:00 PM

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
amathieu13 Since: Aug, 2013
#24: Jun 29th 2022 at 1:46:42 AM

I made a sandbox for drafting the new trope and moving good wicks from dewicking to here: Sandbox.Stereotypical Nerd

GastonRabbit Sounds good on paper (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
#25: Jun 29th 2022 at 2:15:37 AM

[up]I copied the on-page examples from Main.Nerd so I can make the redirect. I left a note saying which examples to remove instead of transplanting to the new trope.

Edit: De-indexed and redirected Nerd.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Jun 29th 2022 at 4:18:34 AM

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.

Trope Repair Shop: Nerd
26th Jun '22 6:49:57 AM

Crown Description:

Nerd has been misused for any character with nerdy interests are characteristics even though they don't fit the stereotype.

Total posts: 60
Top