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Needs Help: Nerd

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    Original post 
OP courtesy of ~amathieu 13 who gave others permission to launch this thread.

I noticed some vague examples for the trope while wick cleaning for Hollywood Nerd and discussed it here which led me to doing a wick check.

Total Wicks Checked = 100

Issue 1 is big in scope but I think is a fairly straightforward fix and that's the fairly extensive ZCE issue. Nearly half of all wicks are ZCE, not including random potholes in sentences which makes up another 12% of wicks. Substantial uses of the trope make up only 40% of examples.

  • I think the name is causing some of this since, as a one word title for a fairly common word, people are just plopping it in and calling it a day. If we make the name slightly less "plop down-able" it could curb some of this behavior. Something like Nerd Archetype or Stereotypical Nerd. To make sure the ZC Es are fixed, we'd probably just need to follow up with some wick cleaning.

Issue 2, and the bigger problem I think, is the misuse. From what I understand, the Nerd is an Archetypal Character with the following traits:
  • stereotypical bad fashion, with the classic representation being plaid button down shirt or a polo, high waisted belted pants, suspenders, and a pocket protector (but other not trendy fashion can fit)
  • not physically attractive due to Geek Physique and a lack of care about outer appearance, often times this includes acne, thick Nerd Glasses, braces, and unstylish hair
  • socially awkward in some way (shy and clams up when talking to people, talks too much and can't read the room, etc)
  • unpopular. This can be as little as them not occupying a high spot in the Popularity Food Chain, but still having a friend/a small circle of friends or can mean they are a complete loner amongst their peers
  • victim of bullying or teasing, especially by the most popular students
  • interests in "nerdy" hobbies that are typically non-mainstream and niche subcultures based on things you need a deep knowledge (be it technical or lore based) to enjoy, e.g. tech, sci-fi works, fantasy works, anime, collecting things, etc.

There are some other traits that can show up to give the nerd a different "flavor" (being genuinely intelligent, pedantic about their topic of interest, turning typically mundane or casual things into Serious Business, etc), but the core seems to be what's listed above and that's more or less discussed in the current trope description. Much like other archetypes like the Messianic Archetype and Satanic Archetype, not every box needs to be checked but the majority do need to be to qualify.

However, people are treating the trope less like a defined stereotype and more like a personality trait. For example, several tropers give a character who just says the read comic books this trope, despite that not being enough to fulfill the stereotype. Of the remaining 40 wicks, 45% of them are correct (or 18% of the total 100 wicks). The remaining wicks fall into 2 categories: a person who shows interest in niche or otherwise considered "geeky" interests like Tabletop games, video games, tech and computers, and the hard sciences; a person who is smart or has an in-depth knowledge on a particular topic (often one that is also considered "geeky").

  • Other than the name change and clean up of wicks, I'm not sure how to fix this. Perhaps tweaking the description a bit so it more straightforwardly lists the traits (like how Messianic Archetype and Satanic Archetype do) and explicitly states characters need to meet some min number of the characteristics to qualify might help.
  • I've also been mulling over whether we can conform to the misuse somewhat by directing all of the "has geeky interests" examples to Geek, which is currently definition only, or Otaku, Fanboy, Fangirl (though these last 3 are both more specific and more nebulous and may need to be looked at themselves, so maybe not). The "just is smart" examples can probably be cut entirely or redirected to The Smart Guy if the character is part of a team/group.

Edited by MacronNotes on Oct 5th 2022 at 6:47:27 AM

MacronNotes she/her Relationship Status: -not set
she/her
Jun 23rd 2022 at 3:12:39 PM

To-do list:

    Original post 
OP courtesy of ~amathieu 13 who gave others permission to launch this thread.

I noticed some vague examples for the trope while wick cleaning for Hollywood Nerd and discussed it here which led me to doing a wick check.

Total Wicks Checked = 100

Issue 1 is big in scope but I think is a fairly straightforward fix and that's the fairly extensive ZCE issue. Nearly half of all wicks are ZCE, not including random potholes in sentences which makes up another 12% of wicks. Substantial uses of the trope make up only 40% of examples.

  • I think the name is causing some of this since, as a one word title for a fairly common word, people are just plopping it in and calling it a day. If we make the name slightly less "plop down-able" it could curb some of this behavior. Something like Nerd Archetype or Stereotypical Nerd. To make sure the ZC Es are fixed, we'd probably just need to follow up with some wick cleaning.

Issue 2, and the bigger problem I think, is the misuse. From what I understand, the Nerd is an Archetypal Character with the following traits:
  • stereotypical bad fashion, with the classic representation being plaid button down shirt or a polo, high waisted belted pants, suspenders, and a pocket protector (but other not trendy fashion can fit)
  • not physically attractive due to Geek Physique and a lack of care about outer appearance, often times this includes acne, thick Nerd Glasses, braces, and unstylish hair
  • socially awkward in some way (shy and clams up when talking to people, talks too much and can't read the room, etc)
  • unpopular. This can be as little as them not occupying a high spot in the Popularity Food Chain, but still having a friend/a small circle of friends or can mean they are a complete loner amongst their peers
  • victim of bullying or teasing, especially by the most popular students
  • interests in "nerdy" hobbies that are typically non-mainstream and niche subcultures based on things you need a deep knowledge (be it technical or lore based) to enjoy, e.g. tech, sci-fi works, fantasy works, anime, collecting things, etc.

There are some other traits that can show up to give the nerd a different "flavor" (being genuinely intelligent, pedantic about their topic of interest, turning typically mundane or casual things into Serious Business, etc), but the core seems to be what's listed above and that's more or less discussed in the current trope description. Much like other archetypes like the Messianic Archetype and Satanic Archetype, not every box needs to be checked but the majority do need to be to qualify.

However, people are treating the trope less like a defined stereotype and more like a personality trait. For example, several tropers give a character who just says the read comic books this trope, despite that not being enough to fulfill the stereotype. Of the remaining 40 wicks, 45% of them are correct (or 18% of the total 100 wicks). The remaining wicks fall into 2 categories: a person who shows interest in niche or otherwise considered "geeky" interests like Tabletop games, video games, tech and computers, and the hard sciences; a person who is smart or has an in-depth knowledge on a particular topic (often one that is also considered "geeky").

  • Other than the name change and clean up of wicks, I'm not sure how to fix this. Perhaps tweaking the description a bit so it more straightforwardly lists the traits (like how Messianic Archetype and Satanic Archetype do) and explicitly states characters need to meet some min number of the characteristics to qualify might help.
  • I've also been mulling over whether we can conform to the misuse somewhat by directing all of the "has geeky interests" examples to Geek, which is currently definition only, or Otaku, Fanboy, Fangirl (though these last 3 are both more specific and more nebulous and may need to be looked at themselves, so maybe not). The "just is smart" examples can probably be cut entirely or redirected to The Smart Guy if the character is part of a team/group.

Edited by MacronNotes on Oct 5th 2022 at 6:47:27 AM

Trope Report | Soft Split Cleanup| Weapon Tropes Cleanup|Appearance Tropes Cleanup| English Localization Cleanup
miraculous We'll show them. We'll show them all. from South Africa
We'll show them. We'll show them all.
Jun 23rd 2022 at 3:33:09 PM

Maybe turn into an index since Nerd is so broqd and launch sterotypical nerd as it's own thing

Real power doesn't come to those who were born strongest, or fastest, or smartest. No. It comes to those who will do anything to achieve it.
MacronNotes she/her Relationship Status: -not set
she/her
Jun 23rd 2022 at 3:41:27 PM

We already have Indexed and Nerdy though. Maybe we can redirect Nerd there and transplant the stereotype to Nerd Stereotype?

Or just have Nerd as a definition only page like Geek?

Edited by MacronNotes on Jun 23rd 2022 at 6:42:25 AM

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Hello83433 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Jun 23rd 2022 at 3:45:30 PM

[up] That's what I was thinking, although that doesn't get rid of the "plop a pothole" problem.

CSP Cleanup Thread | No matter where I roam tonight I'm chasing history
Jun 23rd 2022 at 4:14:18 PM

I think with the loose requirements, it's best to redirect to Indexed and Nerdy or make definition only.

Berrenta Shards of fate from Texas Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
Synchronicity Relationship Status: -not set
Jun 23rd 2022 at 4:47:53 PM

Looking at the wick check we have enough correct examples (18) for a small "stereotypical nerd" page.

I'm in favor of redirecting Nerd to Indexed and Nerdy and splitting off Nerd Stereotype.

callmeamuffin ⭐Cure Magical⭐ from the kitchen Relationship Status: Chocolate!
⭐Cure Magical⭐
Jun 23rd 2022 at 4:59:13 PM

[up] [tup]

DVD language option selected: "Woman Friendly"
WarJay77 She's a cute red monster from The Void Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
She's a cute red monster
Jun 23rd 2022 at 5:32:41 PM

Redirect to the index and make a stereotype trope [tup]

Current Project: N/A
themayorofsimpleton he/him from right here on TV Tropes Relationship Status: The captain of her heart
Jun 23rd 2022 at 6:50:38 PM

Yes, there are enough for a stereotypical nerd example and I'd like to keep that intact as much as possible.

Redirecting to the index is also good with me.

Yindee from New England Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
Jun 23rd 2022 at 6:54:00 PM

I'd support both of those actions, ye.

Current foci: Fixing chained sinkholes and disambiguated pages' regained wicks.
GastonRabbit The world's forgotten boy (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA Relationship Status: I wanna be your dog
Amonimus the Retromancer from <<|Wiki Talk|>> Relationship Status: In another castle
the Retromancer
Jun 23rd 2022 at 10:15:30 PM

Redirect and yard Nerd Stereotype, also adjust Hollywood Nerd to not have a redirect as a disambig target.

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
Willbyr Hi Relationship Status: With my statistically significant other
GastonRabbit The world's forgotten boy (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA Relationship Status: I wanna be your dog
themayorofsimpleton he/him from right here on TV Tropes Relationship Status: The captain of her heart
themayorofsimpleton he/him from right here on TV Tropes Relationship Status: The captain of her heart
he/him
MacronNotes she/her Relationship Status: -not set
she/her
Jun 26th 2022 at 7:13:58 AM

Made the crowner. I wanted to include the split option into the crowner but wasn't sure how so I gave the split option it's own crowner item so that people can vote redirect or definition only independent of spinning off the Nerd Stereotype trope. We have enough to make a Nerd Stereotype trope through TRS instead of just yarding and people have suggested the split option on the thread so I thought it should be on the crowner.

Trope Report | Soft Split Cleanup| Weapon Tropes Cleanup|Appearance Tropes Cleanup| English Localization Cleanup
Amonimus the Retromancer from <<|Wiki Talk|>> Relationship Status: In another castle
the Retromancer
Jun 26th 2022 at 7:24:24 AM

Would a specific option combination effectively mean this trope be transplanted into Nerd Stereotype name, and "Nerd" be left as redirect/disambig?

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
MacronNotes she/her Relationship Status: -not set
she/her
Jun 26th 2022 at 7:31:23 AM

Yeah, that is possible.

EDIT: Didn't think the split option would get most votes out of anything on the crowner.

Edited by MacronNotes on Jun 26th 2022 at 4:10:41 AM

Trope Report | Soft Split Cleanup| Weapon Tropes Cleanup|Appearance Tropes Cleanup| English Localization Cleanup
GastonRabbit MOD The world's forgotten boy (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA Relationship Status: I wanna be your dog
The world's forgotten boy (he/him)
Jun 28th 2022 at 10:46:35 PM

Calling in favor of redirecting to Indexed and Nerdy and splitting off Nerd Stereotype. I also added a to-do list to the opening post and pinned it (at least I think I pinned it; it doesn't show up unless the thread has more than one page).

Edited by GastonRabbit on Jun 28th 2022 at 12:48:00 PM

I am a passenger, and I ride and I ride....
Jun 29th 2022 at 1:46:42 AM

I made a sandbox for drafting the new trope and moving good wicks from dewicking to here: Sandbox.Stereotypical Nerd

GastonRabbit The world's forgotten boy (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA Relationship Status: I wanna be your dog
The world's forgotten boy (he/him)
Jun 29th 2022 at 2:15:37 AM

[up]I copied the on-page examples from Main.Nerd so I can make the redirect. I left a note saying which examples to remove instead of transplanting to the new trope.

Edit: De-indexed and redirected Nerd.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Jun 29th 2022 at 4:18:34 AM

I am a passenger, and I ride and I ride....

Trope Repair Shop: Nerd
26th Jun '22 6:49:57 AM

Crown Description:

Nerd has been misused for any character with nerdy interests are characteristics even though they don't fit the stereotype.

Total posts: 60
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