Designated Hero/Villain cleanup and maintenance

• Designated Villain: Mr. Honey is a bona fide example. All he does is act particularly strict and forbid a considerably sexualized play from being performed, and this is enough for him to be viewed as a homophobe and a dick both In-Universe and by fans. Possibly subverted when his secretary names all the accomplishments and improvements at the high school that happened because of him, implying that the show was intentionally trying to portray the heroes as the flawed ones.

From YMMV.Riverdale. I'm not sure how to handle it; first it mentions that the "fans" also consider him bad, which means this isn't a common opinion (apparently), and then it says that it was "subverted"... delete?

To respond to the Akiko Glitter bit, I'm confused how she's actually a villain. An antagonist, but not really a villain. Is that why she has an entry now? If so, makes sense.

Edited by Irene on Nov 28th 2022 at 5:31:59 AM

Akiko Glitter might fit better under Karmic Overkill (an audience reaction that didn't exist when I added her DV example), since she does clearly play an antagonistic role, but the way she gets taken out of the protagonists' way apparently felt too cruel to viewers.

If the "fans" (for lack of a better word) also ignore her antagonistic role so they can make the protagonists look worse, that might be Draco in Leather Pants.

While I'm not sure she's really a villain so much as an antagonist even then, draco is definitely a thing here. And yeah, that other trope fits much better.

Though as noted, the dislike of her being put into the trash is shoehorned into a lot of other spots when they have no bearing in context(the stuff I said in the folder), so that's why the draco part blatantly fits her situation. It downplays entirely that she never existed as some random nice person. Which is kind of why she does feel partially like a Designated Villain(or moreso a variant, though it's YMMV and fits well enough anyway in context).

Also as I said before, Smiler is pretty damn evil in her actions and isn't even well-intentioned since her massive overreaction to kill two characters for simply existing put her right over said threshold of any possible redeemable factors. It's been ignored a bit cause Gene is an unlikale protagonist, but there's no denying she went too far. Especially since she half causes so many apps to blow up, with her overly violent reaction to others. That, and she goes out of the way to show us some clear foreshadowing of her being evil when she picks her teeth with a meat hook(that is not "normal" behavior). ...And if that wasn't enough, her first clear action is saying she's going to kill a character.

Frankly, she does not fit this trope at this point. A lot of it is shoehorning in only cause she opposes the "designated hero", which at least fits Gene properly. Her acts are directly villain-based, her mannerisms are pretty clearly evil, and she outright is willing to kill an innocent man for existing(which completely overrides any legitimately good intentions. One thing is Gene's screwing up does cause legitimate danger. There's no excuse for what she tried to do to Gene's father, who has proven outright to be a non-problem. In every case, firing them was enough. The latter person is a safety concern. But she's too violent and a control freak to actually do anything logical and just wants to control whether people are allowed to live. So as I said, entirely a villain by her own design. There's no "designated" part at this point).

Edited by Irene on Dec 22nd 2022 at 6:52:12 AM

I agree that Smiler isn't an example of Designated Villain. I get that her actions are well-intentioned (EDIT: or at least in regards to Gene), however, she still tried to kill several other characters without remorse.

Edited by RandomTroper123 on Dec 22nd 2022 at 12:06:14 PM

Found this in DesignatedHero.Video Games:

• Morgana from Persona 5. The game paints him as an ideal hero and he was created as a manifestation of mankind's hope, but yet there are many times in which he acts smug and uncaring towards his teammates, especially towards Ryuji. The worst part is that Morgana never gets called out for his treatment of Ryuji, as it is meant to be Played for Laughs, but when it's the other way around, the game paints Ryuji in the wrong and the other Phantom Thieves call him out for it. Especially notorious in this regard is when Morgana runs away due to insecurity that Futaba is a better nav than him and an off-hand comment from Ryuji on the matter, and puts Haru, who hadn't even fully awakened to her Persona's powers yet, in danger in the Metaverse purely for the sake of protecting his pride. Despite all of this, Morgana learns nothing from the experience and goes back being the smug jerk he was before throwing a tantrum and leaving. The worst part is that everyone blames Ryuji for Morgana leaving, but they don't bat an eye when Morgana openly insults Ryuji in front of everyone after coming back. Despite all of this, Morgana is meant to be seen as heroic and someone to be sympathized with.

Cut.

Easy cut

Complaining and misuse.

Found this on the YMMV page for Charmed (1998)

• Designated Villain: Greg the fireman in Season 6. While not presented as a villain, he's an obvious Romantic False Lead. And since Piper and Leo need to get back together to conceive Chris, the relationship is doomed. Rather than let the guy down gently, Chris just lets him think that Piper was cheating on him with Leo^note A spell caused Piper and Leo to fall asleep next to each other and Greg walked in on that, Chris using his powers to make it look like they were cuddling. The guy is clearly heartbroken over it. Somewhat resolved with his brief reappearance in Season 8 as he and Piper appear to be on good terms.

I don't see the point of this entry. From what this edit details, Greg the fireman is never villainised nor portrayed as being in the wrong for being heartbroken by believing that Piper was cheating on him with Leo.

Edited by WiryAiluropodine on Feb 23rd 2023 at 11:49:48 PM

While, I'm on the topic, I felt like I should also bring up the other two Designated Villain entries on the page.

• The Wizard who sought to kill the Source and take his powers, intending to use it to resurrect his near-extinct brethren. He's immediately declared evil, despite coming across more as a desperate individual, tired of being the Last of His Kind. Then again, he literally is trying to become the Source of All Evil, which doesn't exactly help his case.
• Savard in "Repo Manor", whose evil plan amounted to training three demons to impersonate the Charmed Ones, siphon off their powers, vanquish the Slave King and free his people from enslavement. Likewise, he earns himself an Alas, Poor Villain moment when the Charmed Ones blast him in the face, causing him to fall and be impaled in the head by a strategically placed, pointy rock. Of course, it's highly unlikely that he and his followers would give up the sisters' powers, or release them for that matter, somewhat mitigating how sorry you should feel for him.

Granted, I haven't seen the episodes (or show) myself, but both edits - despite starting off in a manner similar to undeniably accurate examples of the trope - basically go on to argue with themselves. The second one, though, might just need a rewrite, given that Savard's Alas, Poor Villain moment comes off as him dying pretty pathetically, rather than getting a Cry for the Devil moment that positions him as sympathetic (once again, haven't watched the episodes - or show - for myself, so I can't really give my own input on how they should be interpreted).

Greg is definitely misuse. That's shoehorning, and the entry's wording shows that it knows it's shoehorning. There's nothing evil about Greg, he's just a romantic rival. If anything, the focus at that time is on Chris and his underhand methods causing trouble because he's well-meaning, but desperate.

Savard isn't an example either. The episode makes it clear that their intention is to kill the Slave King first, then the Charmed Ones second — and he does threaten Phoebe with death if he catches her trying to escape from the trap he's created. He and his people may be slaves, but they're still demons, and they're still evil. There is an Alas, Poor Villain moment from the three demons who were masquerading as the Charmed Ones, who observe that he spent so long fighting to free his people, only to be killed moments before learning that they've been freed, so he'll never know the plan worked.

The Wizard... I can't remember which episode that's from, although I do remember the incident — not well enough to comment without rewatching it (which is what I just did before commenting on Savard). If my memories are right, he might be an an example, but I would need to rewatch the episode to know for certain.

Edited by Wyldchyld on Feb 24th 2023 at 12:19:28 PM

(x3 and x2) Besides agreeing with that Savard and Greg aren't examples, I don't think the Wizard counts because a character unfortunately can still be evil even if they're acting out of desperation. Plus, the last sentence proves to me that he is a villain. Granted, I haven't watched the episode so I might be wrong.

On South Park:

• Designated Hero: In "Tom's Rhinoplasty", Wendy is shown as the protagonist who tries to win Stan back, but she acts extremely rude and threatening towards the Substitute for Mr. Garrison, Ms. Ellen, when she falsely believes that Ms. Ellen is in a "relationship" with Stan despite her not being interested in Stan at all and has her taken by Iraq soldiers and shot up to the sun in a rocket and never faces consequences for it.

There's no way we were supposed to think she was in the right, it's comically exaggerated violence because it's South Park. Very rarely would we expect her to face consequences.

It's been a while since I watched that episode, but I don't recall Wendy being depicted as in the right.

I found this entry for The Bad Guys (2022) that I think needs a look at:

My issue is that the film does portray Diane as having genuinely reformed and given up a life of crime, even if she never was actually punished for it. In fact, she almost did confess to being the Crimson Paw before Mr. Wolf covered for her. This entry seems more about complaining about her being a hypocrite and being a Karma Houdini.

Anyone else want to weigh in on this entry?

Edited by chasemaddigan on Feb 28th 2023 at 9:07:16 AM

I've seen the flick, and I agree that she doesn't count since her reformation is genuine. Plus, it misuses Double Standard.

Found this on Anime & Manga

• Dominion Tank Police
  • There really is little quantitative difference between the cops and the crooks. Both prefer to drive large, destructive vehicles, and both cause massive amounts of collateral damage to life and property; one side merely has the advantage of legal sanction for their acts, while the other's motives are purely mercenary. This is most clearly lampshaded in the sequel series, wherein Anna and Uni are allowed to make a Heel–Face Turn without the least change to their personalities; they've reformed because they're tired of being chased by the police and have realized that being cops would allow them to continue blowing stuff up, but also provide a steady source of income.
  • In the first OVA, there is an exchange between squad leader Brenten and Lovelock that illustrates this mentality perfectly. Brenten, probably the next most gung-ho member of the squad besides Leona, and most definitely a dyed in the wool veteran of the squad, suggests to Lovelock that they should quit the force right then, and go off and become criminals, for the action, the money, and the lack of regulations that plague them as Tank Police. From the tone of voice, it's clear that he's saying this in a half joking, half not manner, suggesting that if Lovelock had agreed to this, they would have actually left for a life of crime right then. When Lovelock declines, Brenten immediately recants everything he said, and nothing more is ever said of it again. Dominion is not a serious series, and the fact that the so-called "heroes" are just as bad as the "bad guys" (and sometimes worse) is part of the joke.

The last part makes it sound like an example of Unsympathetic Comedy Protagonist rather than of this trope.

Edited by ASghhrv6ub on Mar 30th 2023 at 1:48:09 PM

Found this on League of Legends;

• Designated Hero: Sylas is often cited as this; his lore and stories show that he's been oppressed since birth by Demacia's extreme Anti-Magic systems, to the point that he's conscripted to hunt and imprison his fellow mages, causing innumerable amounts of trauma for him. And then he spends years in solitary confinement which just continue to damage him mentally and emotionally. The Lux comic, though, often depicts him in a sinister light, including a notorious page of him happily standing among the corpses of both civilians and soldiers he's killed escaping from his execution. More scenes and images focus on his derangement and destruction, and his manipulative relationship with Lux who's supposed to be sympathizing with her fellow mages. A common criticism is that there's not enough explored about his character to give sympathy for the horrors he's experienced and that he ends up falsely equated to Demacia's oppressive governance.

Not particularly knowledge in League of Legends lore, but from the looks of things, it seems like Sylas either isn't meant to be 100% sympathetic, or is deliberately portrayed as villainous in the Lux comic. Granted, the "Lux is supposed to be sympathising with her fellow mages" line potentially implies that we're supposed to see him as completely sympathetic in the comic, so I may be wrong.

He sounds like an outright villain to me, though I could be wrong because I'm not savvy with the lore.

Wait and see on that one please, there's a game coming out in a few weeks that's going to likely resolve whether Sylas is meant to be an Anti-Hero or Anti-Villain. For a long time it's not been clear who's meant to be supported between Sylas or Demacia (or neither). That entry was probably added by someone who thinks that the game coming out making Sylas playable means we're supposed to endorse Sylas as a hero.

In the Lux comic specifically he's an Anti-Villain.

Edited by PhiSat on Mar 31st 2023 at 4:45:05 AM

Worth noting that the troper who added the edit listed Sylas a Designated Villain. I changed it to Designated Hero (the trope changed it back to Designated Villain later) because the way the edit was structured made it sound like Sylas was coming off as more villainous/less sympathetic than the writers may have intended him to be. But, like I said, the writers seem to be intentionally writing him as villainous in the Lux comic.

Edited by WiryAiluropodine on Mar 31st 2023 at 9:50:53 PM

I see. You're good.

Edited by badtothebaritone on Mar 31st 2023 at 7:59:09 AM

Worth noting that I didn't change it back to Designated Hero after they changed it back to Designated Villain. Would very much like to avoid an edit war.

If there is a comic that explicitly presents Sylas as an anti-villain that is definitive cut.

Somebody got any opinions on the Tank Police example?