So Bad It's Horrible Cleanup

It's troping different content than the webcomic, so I guess it's fine in theory. Some of the entries seem too concerned with insults instead of explaining why the song is bad, though (like "So Need a Cute Girl" which is borderline ZCE).

I'm opposed to getting rid of the Webcomics or Let's Plays Horrible pages, but I think this example on Horrible.Music Soundtracks is just bad, not horrible:

• While it is debatable which version of "Dragon Soul" is better (between Sean Schemmel and Vic Mignogna, and sometimes Takayoshi Tanimoto), practically everyone would argue that they're at least better than the version sung by Justin Cook. He's a brilliant voice actor but a mediocre singer, and seems to be doing a bad impersonation of Jakob Dylan.

Needs way more context on the song's flaws if it's going to be Horrible. Otherwise, you're right that it's just bad.

I'm thinking about whether or not Batwoman (2019) would work out. I can't find anyone who likes that series.

Edited by SpaceProtagonist on Oct 6th 2020 at 5:53:11 AM

It definitely doesn't qualify. The critical reception hasn't been glowing but it's not nearly bad enough to count. There also are genuine fans. You don't have to look very far to find fans either, the TV Tropes forum thread for the series seems to mostly enjoy it.

I think a big problem with people adding to the Horrible pages in general is an intense myopia about how other people feel about a piece of media outside of their own personal bubbles, in the same way that primarily being friends with other people who like very specific things can skew one's perception of those works' overall reception in the other direction.

Here's one from Horrible.Western Animation:

• After the Sputnik launch, there seemed to be a push for "educational" TV cartoons to raise kids' intellects, and they were generally awful at the time. One, The Big World Of Little Adam, was nothing but a still shot of two kids' heads behind a book, conveniently covering the mouths to avoid animating speech — the only movement was their pupils darting back and forth. This "action" framed montages of still pictures of the subject at hand. On a whole other level of awful, one installment dealing with missiles praised the V-1 and V-2 rockets. However, the animated segments and slideshows weren't the only thing present: The Other Wiki claims the producer, Fred Ladd, who is best known for bringing Astro Boy, Gigantor, and Kimba the White Lion to America, and thus started the first wave of anime in the English-speaking world, got hold of a bunch of NASA documentaries, and with the space race of the 50s and 60s running about in kids' minds, created the segments as framing devices for said documentaries.
  Toonopedia: This show inspired as many extra-media spin-offs and merchandised products as it deserved — that is, none at all. Today, it's occasionally glimpsed alongside Bucky & Pepito, in "Best of the Worst" retrospectives.

I think this fits more as So Okay, It's Average or just plain bad.

The actual original content sounds pretty bad if the animation is that limited. However, the stuff about the documentaries sounds either irrelevant or invalidating, if it made the show actually popular and useful. However, the link suggests it wasn't that popular with kids either, and ran for 110 episodes but that's because it was comparatively dirt cheap.

I think it should stay, but trim off the irrelevant bits.

This entry on Other is a massive wall of text:

• McKamey Manor, at first, was a fairly typical haunted house experience that was popular in its neighborhood for many years, with a Dog Food entry fee to be donated to a Dog Shelter. In 2013, after the success of Blackout Haunted House due to its Refuge in Audacity and expansion to Los Angeles, the man running it, Russ McKamey, began retooling it into an "extreme haunt" of his own, whose focus was to have its patrons "experience a real horror movie". Like Blackout, guests had to sign a waiver releasing the house of legal liability-except there was a huge difference. Whereas Blackout, while being physical and often having themes of sexual assault, at least showed concern for the patrons' safety, McKamey Manor hyper-focused on extremity to the point where very few people have experienced the whole haunt. For one, guests are in the haunt for 4-7 hours, meaning they have to endure 4-7 hours of extreme actions performed on them. They are also not allowed to leave at their own free will ^note those at Blackout can shout "SAFETY!" if they want to leave, at which time the attraction stops immediately and they get escorted out of the maze by a guide, and are completely at the mercy of the staff until the latter decides to end the tour. This version of the manor was controversial, but it did gain a solid cult following as well, with many people who enjoyed it. However, Russ didn't know where to stop and kept on making it more and more extreme, with its 2016 iteration The Chamber being where the consensus turned overwhelmingly against McKamey Manor. In this version, it took everything to downright unethical extremes, such as waterboarding, forced haircuts, legit punching and choking, and these are some of the most tame parts. It was so bad that people were often seen with bruises and cuts on them upon leaving, and even medical problems and serious injuries have been caused by the experience. One visitor was even knocked unconscious after having their lights quite literally punched out by one of the actors, while numerous people have suffered severe wounds and even bone fractures during their ordeals. The reception from a lot of its patrons was unsurprisingly horrid, with several people accusing it of "legal torture", not made better by McKamey's lack of concern and even going on the warpath against its detractors. This led to media and other haunted house fans that had previously been heaping praise on it to turn on McKamey, and even petitions to shut the whole thing down. In 2017, Russ moved to Tennessee and used a gofundme to move the manor with him, and later announced the new version with a twist, a $20,000 dollar reward for anybody who makes it through the entire thing.^note Despite, you know, asking for help with moving through a gofundme and also owing the city of San Diego over a quarter million in taxes. However, due to a combination of the State of Tennessee having gotten wind of McKamey Manor and barring him from doing a full recreation of it and seemingly being out of money, it was left as little more than a shell of its former self where Russ McKamey had to resort to a "You're not fit to continue" excuse to avoid actually paying anyone. Primink made an in depth retrospective on its rise and fall here.

Is there a way to cut the length down? And maybe make it so that the iteration that's deemed Horrible isn't only introduced halfway through?

That was expanded from a previous entry that wasn't quite as long. I'm sure there's a way to combine the two entries without cutting the important context of how it came to be.

I contributed to that behemoth becoming as long as it is, mainly to clear up what I saw as misinformation about it after watching the video I listed (biggest being that it suggested it was always reviled). So I'll take the first stab at cutting it down:

• McKamey Manor, at first, was a fairly typical haunted house experience that was popular in its neighborhood for many years, with a Dog Food entry fee to be donated to a Dog Shelter. In 2013, after the success of Blackout Haunted House due to its Refuge in Audacity and expansion to Los Angeles, the man running it, Russ McKamey, retooled it with a focus for patrons to "experience a real horror movie". Like Blackout, guests signed a waiver releasing them of legal liability-except there was a huge difference. Whereas Blackout, while being physical and having themes of sexual assault, took the patrons' safety seriously. McKamey Manor hyper-focused on extremity to the point where very few people have experienced the whole haunt, especially when it's 4-7 hours long. They are also not allowed to leave freely. ^note By contrast, those at Blackout can shout "SAFETY!" if they want to leave, at which time the attraction stops immediately and they get escorted out of the maze by a guide. This retool was divisive, but also gained a cult following. However, it only got more and more extreme, with its 2016 iteration The Chamber being where it went too far. It took everything to downright unethical extremes, such as waterboarding, forced haircuts, legit punching and choking, and much worse. Severe injuries, up to bone fractures and one person getting knocked unconcious, were reported. Several people accused it of "legal torture", and its reputation was worsened with Russ going on the warpath against its detractors, losing almost all supporters left as a result. In 2017, Russ moved to Tennessee and used gofundme to move the manor with him, and announced it with a twist, a $20,000 dollar reward for whoever makes it through the entire thing. ^note Despite asking for help with moving through a gofundme and also owing the city of San Diego over a quarter million in taxes. However, due to a combination of the State of Tennessee severely restricting the new version and seemingly being out of money, this version was so pathetic that Russ McKamey resorted to a "You're not fit to continue" excuse to not pay anyone. Primink made an in depth retrospective on its rise and fall here.

Hope this is at least a better starting point for the re-write.

Done.

Edited by DDRMASTERM on Oct 13th 2020 at 7:38:39 AM

Can't Take Criticism doesn't allow real life examples, so the pothole to it should be removed.

Anything else that should be changed or is that sufficient?

I would like to remove the highlighted sentence from the How I Became Yours entry Web Comics page. The highlighted bit is in red.

It doesn't really add much to the entry and feels like bashing.

So I'm wondering if Gaming in the Clinton Years should be included in Horrible.Live Action TV. It was a low-budget gaming review show hosted by George Wood in the mid-90s (originally titled Flights of Fantasy), and it has become infamous for being one of the worst review series of all time due to George's off-topic writing, frequent rants, complaints about the games' difficulty, constantly telling viewers to use cheat codes instead of winning the legitimate way, as well as a lot of contradictions. The show is archived by a YouTube channel called NAViGaTR, which you can see here.

Not too long ago, Caddicarus took a look at the show in this video. I just want to bring this up here first before I consider adding it to the page.

That would be a good candidate.

I haven't watched it myself, but there might be a possibility that too many people consider it So Bad, It's Good. Certainly, the memes I've seen from it are hilariously awful, and it also has a So Bad, It's Good entry on its YMMV page. I realise that doesn't disqualify it, just saying that it might be an issue.

Maybe at least keep it there.

Why don't we allow SBIH for specific episodes/seasons of TV Shows?

And on a more casual note, If we did include episodes and seasons, which ones would count?

Edited by magnumtropus on Oct 16th 2020 at 6:22:54 AM

Dethroning Moment of Suck is where you can talk about horrible episodes of your favorite show. Seasonal Rot is for seasons of shows.

I think GITCY actually had a page on Web Original before it got deleted.

Either way, most of what I've seen/heard of it is that it's So Bad, It's Good. Plus I feel putting a review series on here may run afoul of Flame Bait.

Well, SBIH is Flame Bait already. Plus, we have Horrible.Lets Play...though I still don't understand why we do. Several of these examples are just "amateur let's player isn't good at games / isn't funny" without consideration for quality, and I'm surprised it wasn't axed with the Web Original page.

Also, there's an entry that says one Let's Player has "severe Girl-on-the-Internet syndrome" which is uh....probably not a great way to describe somebody's shortcomings.

Actually, checking the discussion page, the Webcomics subpage has invited some of the most intense arguments out of the Horrible pages, so that's concerning too.

Edited by mightymewtron on Oct 16th 2020 at 11:02:42 AM

FWIW I am in favor of cutting the Let's Play subpage along with all the other web content pages. My explanation being that due to the highly interactive nature of web content, flaming and edit wars are typically far more common with web content than with other types of content, on top of the Flame Bait nature of this trope to begin with. Though I might make an argument for webcomics, because flaming is far less common with them than with, say, Let's Plays or fanfiction.

What makes GITCY unique though is its origins. It wasn't originally a Web Video series, it was an actual live-broadcast television show in the 1990s. Sure, the NAViGaTR YouTube channel may give off the impression that it's a Web Video series, but that's because it archives the show, not uploads it from scratch, hence why GITCY belongs in Live-Action TV than Web Video or Let's Play.

Edited by DivineFlame100 on Oct 16th 2020 at 7:43:22 AM