During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
- Why do a cleanup?: This trope definitely exists and has a well documented history of use. That being said, it frequently gets misused to a character who meets one of the components, namely that they are smart, charming while not necessarily even being a villain, or create good plans. While these are components, there is also a certain personality required, not to mention that all of the above are required to be present for a character to be a true Magnificent Bastard. As the trope attracts interest, it unfortunately brings in a lot of misuse and I thought the best way to rectify this would be a Perpetual Cleanup Thread, as is being done and has seen success with Complete Monster.
- What makes a Magnificent Bastard: Below is a list of the individual components to make this character. Note that they must all be present, not just some, which has lead to frequent misuse:
- Must be intelligent: Goes without saying, to be a Magnificent Bastard, the character has to be smart in the first place and use their brain to work towards whatever their end goal may be;
- Must be a Bastard: While going overboard in how vile the character is can be detrimental, a key aspect is the Bastard part of the trope, whether the character is an out-and-out antagonist in the work, some manner of Villain Protagonist, or something in between, they at least have some unscrupulous qualities to qualify for this trope;
- Must not be too detestable: Again, there is a ceiling on how bad the character can be before they just become too nefarious, blocking out the Magnificent part of the trope. A genocidal racist or child-raping Sadist aren't going to make the cut;
- Think on their feet: In addition to being a Chessmaster, a Magnificent Bastard, if the character deals with situations in which their initial plan is ruined, has to be able to pull a Xanatos Speed Chess and at least come up with a competent strategy to make up for lost time, otherwise they fail for being unable to think in tough spots;
- Have charm: Even if they don't necessarily make every character they meet fall in love with them and can even be detested by others, the audience has to find an amicable social relation to the character, or they are failing to make the impact required for this trope.
- What to do if a character is listed on a page but has not been approved?: They need to be removed, all candidates need to come through the cleanup thread first. The character could well count but they need to be analyzed properly and voted on first.
- Do we list Playing With this trope?: No; as a YMMV trope, this cannot be Played With, so we only want examples that are Played Straight.
- What do I do if I want a character to be listed as a Magnificent Bastard?: The greatest success Complete Monster saw for its cleanup effort was from the invention of the effort post format, so, borrowing from that, a troper wishing to propose a Magnificent Bastard will create such a post in the following format:
- Begin by describing The work, this will help establish the setting the character is in and for the reader to understand what kind of a scenario they are in;
- Summarize The character's actions, this will provide a listing for readers to understand what they do and how it applies to this trope because charm and lack of smugness are so crucial, this is a good time to be incorporating exactly the flavor of how they operate to explain this;
- List circumstances in which the character must Think on their feet, these are times where a wrench might be thrown in their initial plan and they have to adapt on the spot or even come up with a new scheme all together, this is also a good time to explain how the villain reacts to defeat when they have to face it, a true Magnificent Bastard won't break down into tears at the thought of death, they should have known such a possibility could occur and be able to handle it with more dignity;
- The competition, similar to the Heinous Standard dealt with for a Complete Monster, this section is to deal with how successful the character is in carrying out their plans compared to other characters. While, as a villain, they probably are going to lose in the end, it is good to explain how other characters handle the same situation. There is no exceptionalism case to be made for this trope but explaining the variety helps the reader have a better understanding of the proposal.
- How do you know when the character's arc is done so they can be proposed? When their tenure as a villain or antagonist finishes. This could happen in a single Story Arc in an entire work, a single work of a franchise, or the whole series in general. We'll show lenience to Long-Runners with constantly recurring candidates or series with outstanding continuities (ex. comic books), and it's entirely possible to count in a work or two but not in general for a reason like Depending on the Writer.
- What about candidates evil because of external sources? Those Made of Evil can qualify if they show enough individuality and tactical acumen — in other words, they have the personality to fulfill the magnificence requirement. Conversely, those brainwashed, especially if they're a better person without it, may fail the individuality aspect and cannot count.
- What if they are under orders from a higher-up? Depends. If the boss created the plans down to the letter and the candidate is just following them, sounds like we should discuss the boss instead. However, if the candidate takes creative liberties with the orders, adds their own charm and flair to them, fills in holes in the orders, and/or actively deals with obstacles their boss did not talk about, the candidate shows enough individual thinking to qualify.
- What about Character Development? An MB is something a character can develop into... a nice person who plots well might become more morally gray as the work goes on and hits the "Bastard" criteria, thus making them viable. Likewise, a Smug Snake might shed their ego, become more understanding of the threat others pose and gain the personality or "Magnificent" criteria, likewise making them viable. Conversely, a character who looks like this trope might suffer from a Sanity Slippage or just get outed as not being as smart as they thought they were and become incompatible with MB.
- Can an MB be a good guy? Not in the conventional sense... it is required they have at least some dubious traits lest they fail the "Bastard" criteria. That being said, a character who pulls a Heel–Face Turn or eventually stops taking villainous actions is still fair game: as there was a point in time where they were both "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and they've merely adapted as time goes on. Now... if such a character begins showing other issues (i.e.: becomes prone to freak outs or starts getting outwitted) then they're compromising their Magnificence and will probably be deemed a cut. What's important is stylishly operating while at least for some time being willing to take at best underhanded methods to see a job done. A Heel–Face Turn in itself isn't a disqualifier but they do have to have been "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and afterwards can't start slipping on the former front.
- What about characters whose stories can take different routes?: When proposing a character in a form of media that has them in multiple story routes. Said character must be consistent with their characteristics in all routes. (ex.: Can't have an example who shows promise on one route yet fails in another.) The only exception is if a later installment of the series confirms the character's actions which made them worth proposing are the canon route.
- Is there a timeframe rule like with Complete Monster?: Yes, please wait two weeks until after the work has concluded before proposing a character (again, usually using the North American air date). As is the case with CM, we want to give a reasonable time frame so that everyone interested in seeing the work has done so and can participate in the discussion without having anything spoiled.
- What about groups like with Complete Monster?: This is a point of divergence between the two tropes. While CM does not allow for a single entry encompassing more than three characters lest their heinousness for crimes becomes too watered down, with MB as long as they are treated as one "unit" it is acceptable to lump all characters provided they share acts of charm and intelligence.
- Can I propose my own work's character as a Magnificent Bastard?: No, this is a YMMV subject and the creator of a content is way too biased to be able to evaluate the criteria we're looking for without a second opinion taking over. That being said, you are more than welcome to encourage someone to consume your creation and if they feel a character counts, are more than welcome to suggest them.
- My example/edit has been approved, but the example subpage is locked! How do I get it added?: The moderators do not add examples to locked example subpages in the MagnificentBastard/ namespace directly. Rather, you need to do the edit to a sandbox page that follows the format Sandbox.MagnificentBastard<Name of the example subpage> (e.g for MagnificentBastard.Fullmetal Alchemist it's Sandbox.Magnificent Bastard Fullmetal Alchemist) and on a Friday, ask in the locked pages edit requests thread for the content to be swapped in.
Thread rules
When voting a troper must specify the effort post they're voting on and cannot merely vote on "Everything I missed" as in the past it has indicated the poster didn't read the effort post and is guessing instead of analyzing.
Resolved items
In general, a character listed on this trope is considered "settled". This means they should not be challenged unless information used to list them was incorrect or information was missed in the initial discussion.
However, when re-litigating a candidate, the same rules apply for when they were originally proposed. If they do not have five or more upvotes than downvotes for approval upon a re-litigation, including votes from the initial discussion if they do not change, then they are a cut.
This especially applies to the characters listed below, who have been discussed excessively and repeated attempts to get them listed/cut may result in punitive action for bogging down the thread.
Definitely an MB
- Pokémon Mystery Dungeon: Explorers: Any sadism Darkrai displays is limited in effect thanks to the game's nature and any cowardice which can be inferred about him is Alternative Character Interpretation about his tactical retreats.
- Avatar: The Last Airbender: Azula's Villainous Breakdown is undone in the sequel comic Smoke & Shadow where she regains her composure and ends up stable and in control enough to count.
Definitely not an MB
- South Park: The show's frequent use of vulgar comedy and mean-spirited humor leaves any potential candidates devoid of the dignity or charm to qualify.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:15:22 AM
I'd really rather leave the Patton quote up tbh. As has been said, it's both the trope namer in work and refers to the protagonist's blood thirsty, romanticized version of war and respect for a worthy adversary. Edmund can go on the quotes page tho.
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
Even accepting the Arguments last page. I'd still like to keep the quote, it's both the Trope Namer for this and arguably one of the most iconic lines ever.
Things are really about to get Fun around here
i like the quote because Linkara uses it a lot. But real talk I agree with the majority opinion on the quote. If Rommel was inarguably a genocidal monster than I'd say "cut it with a rusty spoon" but even now historians argue about his morality, so I'm more OK with it.
"pointedly not a Nazi" I should point out this guy, in defiance of Aldo and the Basterds, calls them "Jew dogs". Now, this is a very nasty thing to say. Nazi? You could make the argument against, but it is something to remember.
Anyway, I should stop talking about IB candidates until an EP comes to pass. Them's my rules and I hope others follow suit.
Anti-semitism wasn’t limited to Nazis. And at that point they had made it clear that options were ‘talk or face summary execution’ so he was pretty clearly trying to pull Defiant to the End. Aldo seems to have a VERY flexible definition of how he defines ‘Nazi’ given how he carves the swastika into the heads of rank and file as well
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
Speaking of Landa... Recently I browse some things on Video Games section of Hate Sink territory and here it is (Potholes are the ones that are in bold):
- Speaking of Starcraft, Arcturus Mengsk went from a seemingly admirable Magnificent Bastard into this trope. At first introduced as a charming Rebel Leader who fought the oppressive Confederacy, he quickly starts showing signs of He Who Fights Monsters as he started to become more and more ruthless and even sacrificed Kerrigan willy-nilly to the Zerg just to consolidate his power. But over time, new galactic threats were introduced, including the Zerg's leader Overmind, Kerrigan herself and eventually Amon, all of them actually are more phenomenally more powerful than him. And even Arcturus himself often found himself outwitted with new threats such as the UED. However, he's the one that happens to have the longer staying power, so the players come to witness him pull off a lot more hypocritical stunts like adapting the old Confederacy's tyrannical ways and makes it worse (hence making all his past inspirational speeches and rally to free Korhal from the Confederacy a complete sham), not caring if his more upstanding son Valerian dies in his schemes, and is chiefly known as a way to show that it was his sociopathic way of life that turned Kerrigan infested and had her kill many innocents ruthlessly, and all he did, it was only for a selfish bid of hoarding power all for himself. He's not a galactic monster and universal threats like the Overmind or Amon, but if there's one character most will hate as intended, it'd be Arcturus Mengsk, as if Blizzard wanted to make a point that he's even less sympathetic than one called 'Queen Bitch of the Universe', they probably succeeded.
- Danganronpa runs on Hidden Depths and Grey and Grey Morality, so there are unsurprisingly very few truly reprehensible characters. Most antagonists/culprits are forced to kill by the Deadly Game, and may bolster a Freudian Excuse or the odd sympathetic quality. Even the genuine psychos are too cool to really hate- for instance, series Big Bad Monokuma, despite being a Hope Crusher and infiltrating the party as Junko only to betray them, and being the one who ruined the world, among other things, is a Laughably Evil and charismatic Magnificent Bastard and actually a Cute and Psycho fashionista.
- Deathshead in The New Order is shown to be more monstrous compared to his Affably Evilness in previous games, taking joys in kicking dogs at every moment he gets to. However, thanks to chilling performance by Dwilight Schultz and his Magnificent Bastard behaviour and hamminess, and the fact he ruthlessly crushes Ally forces in the beginning of the game and nearly succeeds in killing off B.J. in their final battle, Deathshead instead became a classic Love to Hate example. But that cannot be said for his adopted son Friedrich Keller, a French Jerk who sold out his biological parents and French resistance to Nazis as a kid all because of his parents issues. He has his men (on Deathshead's orders) massacre entire asylum along Anja's parents killed when they try to stop it. It's also implied that he would probably rape Anja if B.J. hadn't woke up from coma just in time. And unlike Deathshead, he is also a Dirty Coward who attempts to run off when he sees B.J. kicking off Nazis asses. It's pretty satisfiying to watch him shitting himself when B.J. interrogates him with the chainsaw, but Keller decides to be a dumb enough to insult B.J. for final time. And you can already guess how ended out for him.
- Grand Marshall Garithos in Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne, the bigoted commander of the survivors of Loarderon, who hates every non-human race of the Alliance. In truth his actions, although reprehensible, are fairly tame in comparison to the actual Big Bads of the setting — but then, none of the major characters in the expansion are entirely likable; Illidan Stormrage agrees to work for Kil'jaeden the Deceiver, his brother Malfurion is as Stupid Good as ever and Illidan's former Warden Maiev Shadowsong throws one of her own comrades under a bus to avoid side-tracking while chasing him — and that's just the first campaign.note But given that most of them are still well-liked — Ner'zhul the Lich King is a Magnificent Bastard, Arthas, Kel'Thuzad and Anub'arak are pretty cool, Kael'thas gets Driven to Villainy and is trying to both get revenge on Arthas for destroying his homeland and save his people from their addiction to magic, Illidan genuinely wants to help him with that, Maiev is just doing her job trying to stop a dangerous escaped criminal, Sylvanas is a sympathetic villain, tragic figure and Varimathras is entertaining and dry-witted. Having a plainly easy-to-hate character like Garithos was practically a necessity.
- While the main villains of Mass Effect 3 are the Reapers and the Illusive Man, both exemplify Evil Is Cool to a certain degree, the former being implacable forces of destruction dedicated to wiping out all life, the latter a Magnificent Bastard trying to serve humanity's "best interests" through taking advantage of the war and the Reapers, while also showing considerable respect to Shepard, regarding him/her as a Worthy Opponent (not to mention the fact that in Mass Effect 2, the Illusive Man was a major ally who actually saved Shepard's life). The Illusive Man's dragon, Kai Leng, however, is a Smug Snake who spends most of the game taunting Shepard and potentially killing off fan favorite characters. He's a racist, runs from every fight he doesn't have the advantage in but acts like he's an unstoppable badass, and is a perfect example of Evil Is Petty, going so far as to steal and eat Captain Anderson's cereal and sending Commander Shepard a taunting message about the fall of Thessia and the death of millions. This makes the prompt where Shepard impales Kai Leng with his/her Omni-Blade, one of the most popular prompts in the series.
- The Baldur's Gate series has its share. Most of its Big Bads (Sarevok, Irenicus and Amelyssan) are Magnificent Bastards, some of them have sympathetic traits and tragic backstories (especially Caelar) and are generally too likeable to hate entirely. Even Bhaal, the Greater-Scope Villain of the series and one of the most evil deities on Faerun, makes a nebulous target for audience hate due to how little time he spends on-screen.
Now, here are my thoughts on these potholes: Since Junko and Arcturus Mengsk were being voted an instant no on this cleanup thread, I think it's safe to rewrite the pothole into Manipulative Bastard instead, Deathshed is an easy no judging by his CM entry, Irenicus has been approved but I can't comment on The Illusive Man and Nerzhul so yeah... Permission on zap some of the potholes?
Edited by ElfenLiedFan90 on Feb 14th 2019 at 9:31:42 PM
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
Go ahead and just replace whatever's still there Elfen (I usually just pick Manipulative Bastard or Chessmaster). Anyways, I'm going to the Southern States today (whaddup Lighty?) so my monitoring for the next little bit might be a tad more infrequent.
Goku Black
Cool. Have fun.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
43110's gone! Now's our chance to approve that character that clearly doesn't count because he's a racist idiot but he's got a cool hat!
The Unknown Unknown
Happy Single's Awareness Day, everybody. Let's get this 300 page bread soon.
Enjoy the South, 43! We got deer.
A cruel, sick joke is still a joke, and sometimes all you can do is laugh.
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
@Polar Phantom Inb4 trying to make a case on Yawgmoth because he is Hitler, but Sexy! ![[lol]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/lol2v12_4863.png "[lol]"){kind=small}
Anyways, for seriousness though, I'm wonder on how Lighty gave his opinions regarding Ner'zhull and Illusive Man
Edited by ElfenLiedFan90 on Feb 14th 2019 at 11:55:07 PM
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
Back for now and @ Polar, that better be a damn cool hat.
I don't know what Lighty said, but, as someone who absolutely loves the Illusive Man, definite no to him. He's already a human supremacist, which is a strike against, but the Reapers get him hard in 3. I mean, goddamn.
Also on Deathshead:
- The man was already a Magnificent Bastard and the prior games showed up the former. It's just that in this series, his monstrosity is on display front and center.
This was on the Nightmare Fuel page for the game. How should I modify it?
Deathshead is a Nazi torturer and sadistic mad scientist. No way here. Riley said everything that needs to be said on TIM, and Ner'zhul? No. He ends up badly overplaying his hnd against a sadistic demon and later underestimates Arthas which bites him badly enough to get himself wrecked there.
You can probably just zap that whole bullet, Riley. It's really awkwardly written and I think the NF cleanup thread would probably appreciate it being gone.
And of course, yeah, Deathshead's a turbo-Nazi. That ain't gonna fly.
Whatever sliver of a chance Deathshead had of counting is utterly shattered by him saying he has data that asserts the Nazis' belief in racial supremacy, cut anything he's listed as an MB on.
Edited by 43110 on Feb 14th 2019 at 10:24:08 AM
Oh, yeah. I was 100% already gonna cut the pothole, but I just wanted to know whether to replace it or just zap it. I'm gonna be rid of it. At absolute best, Deathshead is Love to Hate.
Oh, gotcha. In terms of structure I'd say just remove the whole text, since it looks like it was written by someone who either didn't know MB's criteria or was happy to let it droop down through trope decay.
Shin Megami Tensei IV
Having used the clean up english thread, here it is. I also rewrote Kayaba's entry to add his Alicization actions, is still under 200 (Barely, as you can see). Now, with the Unital Ring arc, which strongly teases to Kayaba becoming the Big Bad again...if he continues keeping, I wonder what the heck I could do there.
Kikuoka's entry is spoilered because him being so ruthless is a massive plot twist.
- Sword Art Online: This duo of genius programmers show that programing isn't their only talent.
- Akihiko Kayaba is a genius that desires a complete virtual reality. Becoming the creator of SAO, the first VRMMORPG in existence, Kayaba traps 10,000 players inside it, killing them in the real world if they die in the game while ensuring that the authorities in the real world can't do anything to intervene. Disguising himself as Heathcliff, the charismatic leader of the Knights of Blood, and guiding the players through Aincrad, Kayaba intends to betray them in the last dungeon, acting as the Final Boss of his own game. When Kirito is able to deduce "Heathcliff's" true identity, Kayaba praises him before challenging him to a duel, promising to end the game if Kirito wins. Keeping his word, Kayaba frees the players before seemingly committing suicide, though actually copying his Fluctlight onto the internet to continue existing. Reappearing in Fairy Dance, Kayaba helps Kirito defeat the despicable Sugou and entrusts Kirito with his last invention, encouraging him to share it with the world, leading to the creation of many innovative VR games. In Alicization, Kayaba secretly helps to save the virtual world of Underworld and takes control of a robot to save his former companions
- Initially presented as Kirito's eccentric and annoying benefactor, Seijirou Kikuoka is revealed to be much more. Actually a lieutenant in the JSDF, Kikuoka leads RATH, creators of the virtual world Underworld, which is inhabited by highly developed A.I.s known as "Artificial Fluctlights". Convincing Kirito to work in the Project Alicization while hiding its morally dubious aspects from him, Kikuoka intends to use "complete Fluctlights" as combatants, hoping to avoid human casualties in warfare and showing Japan's potential to the world. After Kirito is hospitalized and suffers from brain damage, Kikuoka takes him from the hospital to the Ocean Turtle and connects him in the Underworld, hoping to save his mind out of genuine concern and affection. After the Ocean Turtle is attacked by Glowgen Defense Systems, Kikuoka helps to defend it, sends Asuna to the Underworld to save Kirito and stop the sociopathic Gabriel Miller, and is injured while trying to protect his companions. Initially willing to sacrifice infinite AIs for one single human, Kikuoka learns to value the Underworld and promises to protect it. Having helped Kirito and Asuna one last time, Kikuoka successfully fakes his death after showing Japan's potential, completely avoiding any punishment.
Okay got a candidate to EP from a show called Big Mouth.
What’s the Work?
Big Mouth is an adult animated series on Netflix. The premise revolves a group of 7th graders as they navigate their way through puberty, masturbation, and sexual arousal in the suburbs of New York City. Acting as sex-based shoulder angels are the hormone monsters: Maurice, for the boys; and Connie, for the girls.
Throughout the series, the kids interact with people and objects who are personified in one way or another and offer helpful, albeit confusing, advice in their puberty-filled lives including the ghost of Duke Ellington, a French accented Statue of Liberty, a pillow capable of getting pregnant, and my candidate The Shame Wizard.
Who Is He? What Has He Done?
The Shame Wizard is well, in short a wizard that exploits teenagers vulnerability to make them feel guilty about their actions.
First appearing in “The Shame Wizard” he appears before Andrew and subjects him to a brutal trial to make him feel guilty for masturbating in front of his best friend’s sister’s swimsuit. It succeeds and leave Andrew self loathing.
The Shame Wizard then has Andrew hook-up with Lola, a girl whose just as self-loathing as he is, only to then manipulates Andrew into breaking up with Lola leading to her breaking Andrew’s wrist leaving Andrew to become even more guilty with his actions.
The Shame Wizard also has a Mole working for him to carry out his influence of shame, an inexperience Hormone Monster named Tyler. He assigns Tyler to become Nick’s hormone monster where has Tyler convince Nick to reveal to his friends that he touches a girl’s breasts.
This led to Jessi, who heard of this to, accidentally blurt this out to the Alpha Bitch Devin who then sluts shame’s the girl in a school sleep over, all of which The Shame Wizard fully anticipated, and uses this to further guilt Jessi for her actions.
Speaking of a school sleep over, The Shame Wizard uses this opportunity manipulate the entire school into feeling shame and turn them against each other, isolating all the students and making them feel immense self-loathing. However Nick learns from Tyler about the Shame Wizard’s schemes and convinces the students to stand up to the Shame Wizard and manages to defeat him.
Is He Intelligent? Is He Charismatic?
As an expert on inflicting shame, he is a master in manipulating hoards of people into dancing to his tune, whether it be turning them against each other or influencing them into feeling more shame. He even manages to convince Jessi that she’s responsible for Trump becoming president as she was not sufficiently aggressive as a Hillary supporter, exploiting her vulnerable state of her going through her parents’ divorce, to make her feel more shame.
As for charisma, its made very clear that David Thewlis brought his Ares charm from Wonder Woman into The Shame Wizard as the Shame Wizard is always a show stealer in all of his appearances. He even has a Villain Song that goes over his manipulations and how he manipulates the entire school into feeling shame, further increasing his status as a charismatic manipulator.
What’s the Competition Like?
The Shame Wizard by far is the smartest and most manipulative villain by far. While the Hormone Monsters can influence the kids to do things to they’re merely assigned to them to guide them through puberty and they lack skills to manipulate people on a large scale like The Shame Wizard can.
There’s also the Depression Kitty who shows up in the 2nd season to convince Jessi to stay with her and continue to feel depressed, she doesn’t really do much beyond that, making the Shame Wizard the winner of this competition.
Is He a Bastard? Is He Too Much of a Bastard?
Okay the Shame Wizard has manipulated hoards of teenagers into feeling immense self loathing, arranges Andrew into hooking up with Lola only to have him break up with her, and arranges Nick, through Tyler, to tell his friends that he touched a girls boobs so that she would be slut shamed, he yeah I think he’s enough of a bastard to count.
That’s said he does admits that he might have went too far, but his intentions were noble because shame is a very important part in people life as it makes people it helps recognize what they did wrong and to not repeat it, basically making sure that people wont become Complete Monsters.
He did mentioned to Maurice that he collects Nazi dildos, but that’s purely to troll Maurice to ruin dildos for him, since the Shame Wizard himself never shows any anti-semitic feelings (nor any prejudice feelings for that matter) towards people, even the people he manipulates like Andrew and Jessi who are Jewish. Hell, at one point he even show genuine disgust towards racism and anti-Semitism even saying that the racist treatment of Missy's American Girl doll, Maddie, by the company that made her "is not right".
Final Verdict
I’ll leave that to you guys.
Edited by G-Editor on Feb 15th 2019 at 10:28:46 AM
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
Shame Wizard. I can hardly imagine a comedy series being conducive to a Magnificent Bastard.
Leaning on Shame Wizard. Ugh....I am not sure Big Mouth can have a keep. The whole premise of the show thrives on extremely vulgar, disgusting and downright tasteless humor that detracts any potential charm that can be drawn from any of the characters.
Don't get me wrong I love the show but because of how vulgar and shameless it is.
Edited by username2527 on Feb 15th 2019 at 12:46:16 PM
I don't think we should vote down a candidate simply because he was in a vulgar comedy, so long as the candidate in question doesn't do anything vulgar himself, in which The Shame Wizard himself doesn't delve into deal breaking vulgar humor.
Also Don't forget we've approved candidates from The Boondocks and The Simpsons. Hell, we've even approved a candidate from South Park one of the most vulgar and outrageous cartoons of all time.
Edited by G-Editor on Feb 15th 2019 at 10:48:26 AM
Lizzid people!
Abstain. Not going to vote down because of the comedy at play here, but I never watched it.
@G-Editor, The thing is with South Park is that while it has some of the most vulgar, offensive humor known to man it's whole premise doesn't thrive on poking fun at bodily functions and from what I remember Shame Wizard isn't exactly detached from said jokes.
Regarding the Patton quote, I'd rather like to keep it, but worst case scenario we could always move it to the quotes page as a piece of trivia.
Edited by DocSharp on Feb 13th 2019 at 5:18:49 AM