During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
- Why do a cleanup?: This trope definitely exists and has a well documented history of use. That being said, it frequently gets misused to a character who meets one of the components, namely that they are smart, charming while not necessarily even being a villain, or create good plans. While these are components, there is also a certain personality required, not to mention that all of the above are required to be present for a character to be a true Magnificent Bastard. As the trope attracts interest, it unfortunately brings in a lot of misuse and I thought the best way to rectify this would be a Perpetual Cleanup Thread, as is being done and has seen success with Complete Monster.
- What makes a Magnificent Bastard: Below is a list of the individual components to make this character. Note that they must all be present, not just some, which has lead to frequent misuse:
- Must be intelligent: Goes without saying, to be a Magnificent Bastard, the character has to be smart in the first place and use their brain to work towards whatever their end goal may be;
- Must be a Bastard: While going overboard in how vile the character is can be detrimental, a key aspect is the Bastard part of the trope, whether the character is an out-and-out antagonist in the work, some manner of Villain Protagonist, or something in between, they at least have some unscrupulous qualities to qualify for this trope;
- Must not be too detestable: Again, there is a ceiling on how bad the character can be before they just become too nefarious, blocking out the Magnificent part of the trope. A genocidal racist or child-raping Sadist aren't going to make the cut;
- Think on their feet: In addition to being a Chessmaster, a Magnificent Bastard, if the character deals with situations in which their initial plan is ruined, has to be able to pull a Xanatos Speed Chess and at least come up with a competent strategy to make up for lost time, otherwise they fail for being unable to think in tough spots;
- Have charm: Even if they don't necessarily make every character they meet fall in love with them and can even be detested by others, the audience has to find an amicable social relation to the character, or they are failing to make the impact required for this trope.
- What to do if a character is listed on a page but has not been approved?: They need to be removed, all candidates need to come through the cleanup thread first. The character could well count but they need to be analyzed properly and voted on first.
- Do we list Playing With this trope?: No; as a YMMV trope, this cannot be Played With, so we only want examples that are Played Straight.
- What do I do if I want a character to be listed as a Magnificent Bastard?: The greatest success Complete Monster saw for its cleanup effort was from the invention of the effort post format, so, borrowing from that, a troper wishing to propose a Magnificent Bastard will create such a post in the following format:
- Begin by describing The work, this will help establish the setting the character is in and for the reader to understand what kind of a scenario they are in;
- Summarize The character's actions, this will provide a listing for readers to understand what they do and how it applies to this trope because charm and lack of smugness are so crucial, this is a good time to be incorporating exactly the flavor of how they operate to explain this;
- List circumstances in which the character must Think on their feet, these are times where a wrench might be thrown in their initial plan and they have to adapt on the spot or even come up with a new scheme all together, this is also a good time to explain how the villain reacts to defeat when they have to face it, a true Magnificent Bastard won't break down into tears at the thought of death, they should have known such a possibility could occur and be able to handle it with more dignity;
- The competition, similar to the Heinous Standard dealt with for a Complete Monster, this section is to deal with how successful the character is in carrying out their plans compared to other characters. While, as a villain, they probably are going to lose in the end, it is good to explain how other characters handle the same situation. There is no exceptionalism case to be made for this trope but explaining the variety helps the reader have a better understanding of the proposal.
- How do you know when the character's arc is done so they can be proposed? When their tenure as a villain or antagonist finishes. This could happen in a single Story Arc in an entire work, a single work of a franchise, or the whole series in general. We'll show lenience to Long-Runners with constantly recurring candidates or series with outstanding continuities (ex. comic books), and it's entirely possible to count in a work or two but not in general for a reason like Depending on the Writer.
- What about candidates evil because of external sources? Those Made of Evil can qualify if they show enough individuality and tactical acumen — in other words, they have the personality to fulfill the magnificence requirement. Conversely, those brainwashed, especially if they're a better person without it, may fail the individuality aspect and cannot count.
- What if they are under orders from a higher-up? Depends. If the boss created the plans down to the letter and the candidate is just following them, sounds like we should discuss the boss instead. However, if the candidate takes creative liberties with the orders, adds their own charm and flair to them, fills in holes in the orders, and/or actively deals with obstacles their boss did not talk about, the candidate shows enough individual thinking to qualify.
- What about Character Development? An MB is something a character can develop into... a nice person who plots well might become more morally gray as the work goes on and hits the "Bastard" criteria, thus making them viable. Likewise, a Smug Snake might shed their ego, become more understanding of the threat others pose and gain the personality or "Magnificent" criteria, likewise making them viable. Conversely, a character who looks like this trope might suffer from a Sanity Slippage or just get outed as not being as smart as they thought they were and become incompatible with MB.
- Can an MB be a good guy? Not in the conventional sense... it is required they have at least some dubious traits lest they fail the "Bastard" criteria. That being said, a character who pulls a Heel–Face Turn or eventually stops taking villainous actions is still fair game: as there was a point in time where they were both "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and they've merely adapted as time goes on. Now... if such a character begins showing other issues (i.e.: becomes prone to freak outs or starts getting outwitted) then they're compromising their Magnificence and will probably be deemed a cut. What's important is stylishly operating while at least for some time being willing to take at best underhanded methods to see a job done. A Heel–Face Turn in itself isn't a disqualifier but they do have to have been "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and afterwards can't start slipping on the former front.
- What about characters whose stories can take different routes?: When proposing a character in a form of media that has them in multiple story routes. Said character must be consistent with their characteristics in all routes. (ex.: Can't have an example who shows promise on one route yet fails in another.) The only exception is if a later installment of the series confirms the character's actions which made them worth proposing are the canon route.
- Is there a timeframe rule like with Complete Monster?: Yes, please wait two weeks until after the work has concluded before proposing a character (again, usually using the North American air date). As is the case with CM, we want to give a reasonable time frame so that everyone interested in seeing the work has done so and can participate in the discussion without having anything spoiled.
- What about groups like with Complete Monster?: This is a point of divergence between the two tropes. While CM does not allow for a single entry encompassing more than three characters lest their heinousness for crimes becomes too watered down, with MB as long as they are treated as one "unit" it is acceptable to lump all characters provided they share acts of charm and intelligence.
- Can I propose my own work's character as a Magnificent Bastard?: No, this is a YMMV subject and the creator of a content is way too biased to be able to evaluate the criteria we're looking for without a second opinion taking over. That being said, you are more than welcome to encourage someone to consume your creation and if they feel a character counts, are more than welcome to suggest them.
- My example/edit has been approved, but the example subpage is locked! How do I get it added?: The moderators do not add examples to locked example subpages in the MagnificentBastard/ namespace directly. Rather, you need to do the edit to a sandbox page that follows the format Sandbox.MagnificentBastard<Name of the example subpage> (e.g for MagnificentBastard.Fullmetal Alchemist it's Sandbox.Magnificent Bastard Fullmetal Alchemist) and on a Friday, ask in the locked pages edit requests thread for the content to be swapped in.
Thread rules
When voting a troper must specify the effort post they're voting on and cannot merely vote on "Everything I missed" as in the past it has indicated the poster didn't read the effort post and is guessing instead of analyzing.
Resolved items
In general, a character listed on this trope is considered "settled". This means they should not be challenged unless information used to list them was incorrect or information was missed in the initial discussion.
However, when re-litigating a candidate, the same rules apply for when they were originally proposed. If they do not have five or more upvotes than downvotes for approval upon a re-litigation, including votes from the initial discussion if they do not change, then they are a cut.
This especially applies to the characters listed below, who have been discussed excessively and repeated attempts to get them listed/cut may result in punitive action for bogging down the thread.
Definitely an MB
- Pokémon Mystery Dungeon: Explorers: Any sadism Darkrai displays is limited in effect thanks to the game's nature and any cowardice which can be inferred about him is Alternative Character Interpretation about his tactical retreats.
- Avatar: The Last Airbender: Azula's Villainous Breakdown is undone in the sequel comic Smoke & Shadow where she regains her composure and ends up stable and in control enough to count.
Definitely not an MB
- South Park: The show's frequent use of vulgar comedy and mean-spirited humor leaves any potential candidates devoid of the dignity or charm to qualify.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:15:22 AM
Ultimate Moral Compass
Happy Halloween all you magnificent bastards you.
So let's talk about a film from a genre I hold dearly to my heart.
What's the work?
Tokyo Gore Police is a 2008 J-Sploitation movie, and quite possibly the most graphic movie I’ve ever seen.
I'll just repeat what I wrote on the CM thread two years ago.
"In the future, a Mad Scientist/ Serial Killer called the Key Man turns people into creatures called "Engineers". Engineers are infected people who, once a certain limb is cut off, replace said limb with a weapon that attaches to their body (whether it be a chainsaw, a large mouth, or even a canon). These people run havoc all over Tokyo, killing people. The KM even kills prostitutes in order to rile up the police. It’s up to Ruka, an Engineer Hunter working for the Tokyo Police Force who lost her father as a teenager, to stop the KM from turning more people into Engineers; unfortunately, she herself ends up becoming infected with the virus that creates Engineers, and must stop him to cure herself."
Who is he?
The Key Man is a serial killer scientist who has the ability to turn people into Engineers.
What does he do?
Having witnessed his father getting killed by the Chief of Police, the Key Man, having been at college studying the genetics of murderers, injected himself with the DNA of every serial killer known to man in order to get revenge on the Chief. Instead, he tried to commit suicide. After his near death experience, the Key Man discovered that he now has the ability produce key-shaped tumors, which are apparently the ultimate killer gene. These tumors can be inserted into peoples’ insides to turn them into mutated murderers, the Engineers. The Key man gets the idea to start his own revolution of Engineers, planning to turn everybody in Tokyo into one as a way to unite everyone together to not only control the city, but to also get even with the Chief.
The police would be all over this case… if the Key Man wasn’t so hard to find that is. Despite making frequent public appearances killing prostitutes, the police have a very difficult time trying to find him. Throughout the movie, the Key Man implants a tumor into Ruka’s arm, and is shown to run a freak show where men are lured into sex with Engineers to be turned into them.
After Ruka is able to find him through a lot of trial and error, the Key Man casually invites her inside his apartment and informs her of his plan with drawings he made himself. Afterwards, the Key Man attempts to get Ruka to join him and his Engineer army. But Ruka doesn’t go through with it, slashing the Key Man’s head in half and killing him for good… or does she?
After the movie’s over, we find that the Key Man is still alive, having sewn his head back up, and will continue to build his army of Engineers.
Is he charming? Intelligent? Able to think on his feet?
He’s certainly intelligent, being an evasive criminal who’s still able to amass an army of mutants. Hell, death can’t even contain him, as he’s survived two near death experiences.
Is he a bastard? Too much of one?
The Key Man definitely has no compassion for humans, especially the police, viewing regular people as just soldiers for his army. That said, he cares very much for his father, and proves to be kinder than the Chief of Police, a racist monster with no hint of kindness.
The competition?
There’s plenty of assholes in this movie, but the Key Man stands above everybody else as a crafty criminal.
Verdict?
Keyper
"No running in the halls!"
Sounds nasty but by the standards of a J-splatter where he's not the worst guy in the work and the fact his worst crimes are done as a part of agency-compromising measures he's taking to avenge a loved one, kinda like my own Mr. Hand, I'm inclined to say yes. Think that's our first for the genre actually.
Goku Black
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
keys
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Doubt we'll get many. Doesn't seem like a genre riff for them.
to Tobias Irving, the Brides and the Key Man.
"The Juice is Loose."
Yes to the Key Man.
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
This movie seems ridiculous. Then again I guess that's what you should expect from a genre called J-sploitation. I'll give a leaning .
@ mir, In general probably not but you always get those silly flicks that flourish by making their villains smart and charming rather than cranking how vile they are up.
Sure there. And....Hey, guys, so...I've got my Hallows examples coming, so first:
What's the work?
Fright Night is a 1980s horror-comedy with young Charlie Brewster, your average teenager in suburbia with an annoying buddy named "Evil" Ed, a girlfriend named Amy...and a vampire has just moved next door. Armed with his knowledge of horror films, Charlie goes for one man he's sure cna help: the horror film star Peter Vincent.
Let's talk the villain Jerry Dandridge
Who is Jerry Dandridge?
The suave, charming vampire, played by Chris Sarandon. Dandridge is responsible for multiple disappearances. Accidentally spying on Jerry and a woman one night and seeing Jerry has fangs, Jerry quickly closes the blinds, but Charlie sees his roommate Billy sneaking out what appears to be a corpse...he calls the cops quickly, but Jerry, thinkign quick, replaces his coffin and Charlie ends up looking like a raving idiot to them.
Having fooled them, Charlie still thinks he's safe since vampires need an invitation...Jerry doubles aorund him, and wins over Charlie's mom with his wit and pleasantry, already invited over and cheerfull states he'll be coming around a lot more with Charlie's mom's 'permission'...later that night, Jerry attacks Charlie, brightly telling him not to make much noise since they might wake Charlie's mom "and then I'd have to kill her, too!" Jerry is furious about Charlie informing the cops and states he deserves to die but? "I'm going to give you what I don't have, Charlie; a choice. I'll forget about you if you forget about me." Charlie...doesn't take the deal and ends up stabbing Jerry with a pencil, driving him off...Jerry calls him to inform him he's going to come back soon...
Shortly after, Jerry meets with Charlie's friends and with Peter V Incent, legendary vampire hunter (the host of Charlie's favorite show)...when Charlie's friends pay the down on his luck Vincent to just come over. Jerry is taken by Charlie's girlfriend Amy, but passes all the tests...until Peter's pocket mirror reveals he has no reflection. Later, when things get bad, Jerry stalks Charlie and friends, trapping Evil Ed and convinces him to join Jerry in vampirism to be strong and free again...before he seduces Amy and makes off with her.
Sending Evil after Vincent when he realizes Vincent knows, Charlie and Vincent band together, but Jerry gets the better of them on the first battle with a "welcome to...Fright Night! For Real." The boys do rally, but Jerry wins and throws Charlie to the now vampirized Amy. His servant Billy is killed, but Jerry fights well and retreats, driven back when Vincent proves to be a good vampire hunter. Jerry flees to his coffin, but the boys follow him and defeat him by tearing off the boards from the walls to let in the sun, ending as Jerry is burnt in the sun, calling for Amy...
How's he operate?
Sarandon is nothing but charm. Admittedly it's lessened when he puts on the Game Face but holy hell, I cannot stress how good Chris Sarandon is. Jerry is suave, pleasant, charismatic and despite that he can just kill Evil on the spot, he takes his time to lure him into vampirism with him. He's intelligent, outplays the heroes at more than one term and his affection for Amy is real.
He loses some composure to the end when he realizes these useless mortals might actually kill him. He never breaks down to mitigating details, IMO, and Jerry only dies not screaming and begging, but calling for Amy. Sarandon just imbues this vampire with some amazing levels you can't help but adore.
Bastard? Too much?
Let's not mince words, Jerry's evil. He's an old vampire who's killed tons of people. He kills a bartender when the man intrudes on him and Amy, he has some nasty touches like feeding Charlie to Amy (or attempting to), and others. That said, He never gets too nasty (nowhere near as bad as the remake Jerry)...he also has moments of humanity. He genuinely seems friendly with Billy and is upset when Billy dies. The two come off as total bros through the story. In addition, despite being capable of just killing Charlie and his mom, Jerry makes it pretty clear he doesn't want to kill Mrs. Brewster and he has no choice in being what he is. While contemptuous of Charlie, he offers him a real chance to live and forget about Jerry.
And even when he seduces and vamps Amy, Jerry seems to care about her to a real degree. Amy sees a portrait of a woman on the wall who resembles her exact that Jerry is staring wistfully at, and he comments she was "a woman I used to know. A very long time ago." Whoever she was, he clearly remembers her centuries later.
Conclusion?
A hard yes for Jerry Dandridge.
Edited by Lightysnake on Oct 31st 2020 at 10:09:30 AM
Goku Black
Jerry Dandridge
Probably one if the most charming vampires to ever Grace cinema.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
"The Juice is Loose."
Yes to the hampire but wow his character page doesn't like him.
Yeah, that Dirty Coward entry is bullshit. "He's nervous about drinking holy water" makes as much sense as calling you or I a coward for being nervous about drinking acid.
Edited by Lightysnake on Oct 31st 2020 at 10:19:33 AM
Was gonna say it reads slightly better than the DC entry someone crammed on Harry Lime's character sheet lol
Jerry. If I remember correctly, somebody on MCU Vulture's character page tried to downplay the fact that he's an Anti-Villain (when I feel like he's in the running for being the patron saint of that trope).
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
x5 I'm not sure the latter guy is dead... (he might just be knocked out)
Edited by jjjj2 on Oct 31st 2020 at 2:00:12 PM
You can only write so much in your forum signature. It's not fair that I want to write a piece of writing yet it will cut me off in the mid
Goku Black
Yes people mess with characters pages all the time trying to twist stuff to whitewash / bash a character.
Edit : Really he kills one guy by accident. The worst he does is threaten Peter but Thats pretty much it.
Edited by miraculous on Oct 31st 2020 at 10:28:14 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
to Jerry Dandridge.
I have no clue how but there's a lot of well-received and popular stuff with pages that seem to somehow summon every detractor out there. I remember on CM when someone had practically tailored MCU!Killmonger's to erase his love of his dead dad, throw the validity of his beliefs into question and pretty well lay it out so he'd look viable for that trope.
Edited by 43110 on Oct 31st 2020 at 1:34:07 PM
Ultimate Moral Compass
Jerry. Gonna get crucified for this, but I have yet to see the original Fright Night. I've only seen the 2011 remake.
Jerry. How many kills by the way?
I got 2 kills for Toomes in Homecoming: Brice (by accident) and one of the Mooks at the ferry when Toomes slams his head into a car multiple times.
Edited by k410ren on Oct 31st 2020 at 1:56:40 PM
"I'll show you the Dark Side." CM actors and kills
I have... seen neither.
x4 Same with Robert King and Hate Sink- I suppose different people just see what's onscreen in wildly different ways.
I can Jerry though (although I should probably watch the movie myself either way sometime)- I can definitely see Sarandon turning on the charm (pity they apparently didn't have Colin Farrell do the same, even if I can appreciate going for a new angle).
Edited by YamiVizziniX on Oct 31st 2020 at 1:56:47 PM
There is no beginning. There is no end. There is only... Hooty.
I have two more classic horror monsters today, one of whom...well, here we go. This is the one I'm less sure of, but...
What's the work?
The Mummy was a 1999 action hit, starring Brendan Fraser as a French Foreign Legion soldier in Egypt who ends up dealign with awakening dark forces, chief among them...the mummy Imhotep.
Who is Imhotep?
Long ago, Imhotep was the high priest of Pharaoh Seti I, a devout and faithful man who had a secret: Imhotep was having an affair with Seti's wife, Anck-su-namun, his true love. One night, the two met for their affair and Imhotep upon touching Anck-su-namun's shoulder smeared the oils there. Pharaoh Seti arrived unexpectedly and realized someone had touched his wife, prompting Imhotep to ambush the Pharaoh and cut him down. Forced to flee by his own priests to escape the Pharaoh's guards, the Medjai, Anck-su-namun killed herself with knowledge her love would revive her....Imhtep was caught before this, his priests mummified alive, but Imhotep was given worse: his tongue was cut out, he was locked in a sarcophagus and thrown in with maneating scarabs to eat him alive. Imhotep 'lived' for thousands of years in agony the whole time, transformed into a monster whose release could mean the end of the world.
....guess what, the heroes wake him up. Imhotep promptly steals the eyes and tongue of an American explorer and happens upon Beni, the old 'friend' of hero Rick O'Connell. Upon Beni speaking Hebrew, which Imhotep recalls as the language of Egypt's slaves, he takes Beni into his service, promising immunity and riches in return for helping to gather his other canopic jars that contain Anck-su-namun's essence...spending his time running circles around the heroes, Imhotep infiltrates and devours the lives of the others who opened his chest to restore himself, while unleashing the ten plagues of Egypt and targeting Evie, the heroine, whom he intends to sacrifice to reawaken Anck-su-namun's soul. Imhotep mind controls the whole town after the heroes, with the help of the remaining Medjai including Ardeth Bey. The heroes track Imhotep to Hamunaptra, the city of the dead and face off with him, ending as Imhotep is defeated when his immortality is removed and Rick impales him. His final words? Death is only the beginning, before he rots away and falls into a pool.
In movie 2, the reincarnation of Anck-su-namun and her forces revive Imhotep who intends to destroy the mythical Scorpion King and seize control of his armies to take over the world. Rick and Evie's son Alex is kidnapped by Imhotep's forces, wearing a bracelet that shows the map to the Scorpion king, which Imhotep takes advantage of...needing his body back, he also tricks a group of thieves, scaring them so Anck-su-namun convinces them to open the chest...which means Imhotep can drain them to recover himself. Imhotep utilizes his powers to lure the O'Connells into a trap, seemingly killing them and making his way to open the path to the Scorpion King, ending in a battle royale between Rick, Imhotep and the terrible CGI Dwayne Johnson. Imhotep gets the killing blow almost...only for Rick to seize the javelin he throws out of the air and kill the Scorpion king to banish him and his armies to the underworld.
As the temple crumbles, Imhotep and Rick are thrown to a pit of the underworld....Evie rushes to save Rick, but Anck-u-namun? Runs away from Imhotep, despite his pleas to save her. Imhotep sees the true love he's lived for millennia to realize fall to pieces, watches the O'Connells with a mix of admiration and envy...and simply lets go, releasing the edge and falling to the underworld, never to return.
How's he operate?
Arnold Vosloo imbues Imhotep with pure charm and charisma, carrying himself with an epic grace borne of thousands of years. As a manipulator, he's pretty good, utilizing his resources and powers very effectively. Notably, he never just outright overwhelms someone here. He usually lures them into traps, uses proxies, like turning the town into slaves, tricking the heroes into trading Evie for their safety...he and Anck-su-namun trick the thieves into opening the chest so he can drain them and when the Scorpion King comes to fight, with Rick there, Imhotep thinks quick and says he's the King's servant...but Rick is there to kill him, so he can seize advantage and kill a distracted Scorpion King.
Also notable is Imhotep rarely crumbles in the face of his plans foiling. His biggest breakdowns are him roaring "NO!" when Rick kills the Scorpion King, and when he begs Anck-su-namun to save him from falling into hell...but when he's killed at the end of the Mummy 1 he handles it well, and when Anck-su-namun doesn't save him, he accepts his end with pure stoic dignity, despite Rick probably being willing to save him as well.
Is he a bastard? Too much?
Imhotep is absolutely evil. He killed the pharaoh he was sworn to, he kills tons of people, turns others into zombie slaves, wants to raise an army of jackal-men to take over the world. Imhotep is a bad, bad, BAD guy. But obviously, he's not without standards or redeeming qualities. His main feature is the love he was damned for. Anck-su-namun is everything to him and all he does is for her. As for Beni...I should note despite recognizing Hebrew as "the language of slaves" he's never shown any prejudice. He just decides Beni could be useful and...treats him rather well, with his promises of wealth and immunity being apparently quite genuine.
So, yeah, Imhotep is pretty damned evil, but he's so pleasant about it when he's in human form.
Conclusion?
I'd give him a yes, but he's the one I'm unsure on. What say my friends?
Now that is a tougher one, he's a great Tragic Villain, in spite of how horrible he was everything he did was for Anuksunamun's love and that gets a horrific end when she ends up too cowardly to come to his aid when he needs her most. It could be read as a pathetic scene for all he's put into the relationship but I think the resolved stoicism he resigns himself with just pushes him over. He's a murkier keeper and while I'm saying yes, it is one I'd like debated honestly.
Yeah, this is absolutely one I'm unsure of, and if not for Vosloo's powerful and charismatic performance, I'd lean closer to no. I lean just to yes myself, but...hey, that's why we have the folks here.
Hopefully I should have one or two rap candidates soon. Perhaps a Big L candidate. Unsure about him so remains to be seen.
J’m’arrête pas tant qu’j’vois pas des lignes sur les moniteurs (Not stoppin 'til I see Flatlines)