Duplicate tropes discussion thread

Former is a form of Exposition, latter is a character motivation.

Anyone Can Die vs. Characters Dropping Like Flies?

Don't see a relation. One is "Plot Armor Averted" and the other is a large death count of non-Red Shirt in a work, the two can come together or separately.

This has been brought up before in another thread, but Informed Wrongness vs Strawman Has a Point?

Yeah, to me it looks like an insufficient The Same, but More Specific.

I'm not sure if it should go here, but I generally have a problem with Strawman Has a Point. It seems to often be used as "antagonist's point of view makes some sense", even though that could simply mean the antagonist is not a strawman to begin with.

Edited by kundoo on Aug 26th 2022 at 2:09:36 AM

I do often have trouble seeing how it's worth distinguishing from Informed Wrongness.

FWIW, Informed Wrongness is older.

By about two days.

Apparently.

I wonder what the differences are in Creator Couple, Real-Life Relative and Romance on the Set.

Edited by gjjones on Aug 29th 2022 at 12:47:56 PM

As I understand it, Creator Couple is when two creators, who are in relationship with each other, work together on several projects; Romance on the Set is about two peopel entering into a relationship while working on a movie; and Real-Life Relative is about relatives: children, siblings, third cousins twice removed... It could also be about spouses, I suppose, but when it doesn't fit into the other two tropes.

What is the difference between Broken Messiah and Secretly Selfish?

I don't think Broken Bird is the same as Dark and Troubled Past, Broken Bird is cynical and stoic due to their past while someone with a Dark and Troubled Past could end up with any sort of personality. It also always bothered me how it gets listed as Always Female because there are a whole lot of male characters with that sort of personality and backstory.

Broken Messiah is a messiah character who has a paralysing guilt complex (not necessarily about selfishness). Secretly Selfish is an accusation by an antagonist (aimed at a hero, but not necessarily a messiah). Occasionally, the one can lead to the other.

Corrupt Politician vs Sleazy Politician ? Where’s the line?

Crapsaccharine World vs. False Utopia?

False Utopia is a trope for social science fiction and speculative fiction, which has a theme of what a functioning society needs and what makes it good or bad for its inhabitants. Crapsaccharine World is just the Subverted Innocence version of a Sugar Bowl. Possibly it should be considered a subtrope, but a Utopia can be only a single organised community, not the entire setting.

Sleazy Politician reads more like appearance/personality (charming in a snakey way, obviously self-serving, backstabbing, etc) and being blatantly corrupt seems optional. Meanwhile a Corrupt Politican doesn't have to have a sleazy vibe.

Where is the line drawn between Affably Evil and Faux Affably Evil? From the description, it seems clear that Affably Evil is a genuinely nice villain, while Faux Affably Evil is when their manners make them even more creepy, but the examples are often mixed up.

I do agree that Faux Affably Evil may need to be redefined, since FAE requires them continuing to talk in a polite manner even as they do evil things, and if they drop the polite act, then it fits better under Bitch in Sheep's Clothing.

Yeah, to many examples are "he's seems nice until he gets angry"

Edited by randomtroper89 on Sep 1st 2022 at 2:28:38 PM

can we mix these two? https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/KlingonsLoveShakespeare / https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AlienArtsAreAppreciated people are mixing examples in both pages and i feel a merge would be for the best.

TRS would be needed.

I think you might want to do a Wiki Check just in case and then see TRS.

if we were to mix them, i'd would name it, something like....Interspecies Cultural Appreciation or something.

The description of Alien Arts Are Appreciated seems a bit muddled. Based on the title I'd expect it to be the inversion of Klingons Love Shakespeare, where humans can appreciate works of art created by aliens, and that seems to be the point of the original YKTTW and has some hints of it left in the description, but the description as a whole seems to define it as the supertrope and Klingons Love Shakespeare in turn defines itself as the subtrope (although its original YKTTW did seem to identify itself as the inversion), and the laconic defines the former as when human arts are appreciated by aliens, not the other way around. When humans appreciate alien works of art, AAAA claims that this is because the character or group is The Xenophile, which a) sounds like it doesn't cover when something is appreciated more generally and b) seems like it would also cover aliens who appreciate human works of art.

I'd like to think we could tighten up and clarify the description of Alien Arts Are Appreciated and firmly define it as either the inversion or supertrope of Klingons Love Shakespeare without needing to merge them, with overlapping examples being cleaned up, but the problem is that No Such Thing as Alien Pop Culture implies that inversions of Klingons Love Shakespeare are going to be pretty rare. Note that the original YKTTW and earliest Internet Archive version of AAAA already have a heavy presence of "aversions" where alien art really doesn't make sense to us^note though some of those "aversions" seem to see the trope as more "alien art is analogous to human art" as opposed to "alien art can be appreciated by humans", since some of them involve appreciably alien works that humans can appreciate, at least out-of-universe, regardless, and a number of the straight examples come off as pretty vague. It may well be that the existence of alien arts at all is more notable as an exception to or aversion of No Such Thing as Alien Pop Culture than any trope relating to how humans or any other species react to it.

My instinct is that, if the distinction is salvageable, the emphasis of Klingons Love Shakespeare should be specifically on aliens appreciating Real Life works of art or other elements of human culture, which would imply a supertrope/subtrope relationship. (If the aliens are appreciating a fictional Show Within a Show, and it doesn't fall under another subtrope like Aliens Steal Cable, it would probably still fall under AAAA.) The problem with defining them as inversions of one another is if we run into a case that can't be neatly defined as "humans to aliens" or "aliens to humans", such as a work created by one alien species being appreciated by another alien species, or conversely one group of humans appreciating the work of another group of humans; it might still work if we define "human" as the side the work is written from the perspective of, but there are still hypothetical examples that might slip through the cracks, and it may not be an entirely tropable distinction.