Duplicate tropes discussion thread

As the description says, Younger Than They Look (more commonly) may apply instead, or with Older Than They Look both, or neither. It's just about two related characters looking identical. And it's not always age related, sometimes it's just a case of Animation Anatomy Aging. It being a part of The Parent Trope (and maybe it should also be under Doppelgänger) shows it's distinct enough not be The Same, but More Specific. Though Mum Looks Like a Sister could probably be crosswicked to Younger Than They Look and Older Than They Look.

Edited by Amonimus on Nov 20th 2021 at 4:37:04 PM

You say that both Younger Than They Look and Mum Looks Like a Sister can apply, but doing that would make Absurdly Youthful Mother superfluous. I agree with everything else though.

Edited by JHD on Nov 20th 2021 at 8:50:14 AM

No, that is something else, completely unrelated.

Mum Looks Like a Sister could be the result of:

• Younger Than They Look - such as a daughter who is 16 but looks 26
• Older Than They Look - such as a mother who is 46 but looks 26
• both of the above - such as a daughter who is 16 but looks 26 AND a mother who is 46 but looks 26

Absurdly Youthful Mother is about a mother who can seem way too young to be a mother, at least by today's standards. For example, a mother who is 26 and looks 26, and a daughter who is 12 and looks 12. Younger Than They Look, Older Than They Look and Mum Looks Like a Sister do not apply because both the mother and daughter look their actual ages. But do the math and you realize that the mother must have been 14 when she gave birth. For most present day people that will seem way too young, even if it makes sense in-universe (such as a world where peope rarely live past 30, and so giving birth at a young age is seen as normal).

1) "Absurdly Youthful Mother is about a mother who can seem way too young to be a mother, at least by today's standards." The keyword here is SEEM. In other words, it's possible they might NOT look like they're too young to be a mother. Also, what do you mean by "today's standards?" Not only does the main page never mention any standards, but they could be interpreted differently depending on who you ask.

2) "Younger Than They Look, Older Than They Look, and Mum Looks Like a Sister do not apply because both the mother and daughter look their actual ages." Bullshit. It's entirely possible for an anime mother to give birth at 15, and then go on to be 45...but looks 25. There's definitely some overlap here.

3) "For most present-day people that will seem way too young, even if it makes sense in-universe." Again, the keyword here is MOST. You are not taking into account the people who DON'T think the mother is too young. And before you say this is irrelevant, I bring this up because there's a high possibility some of those very same people are Tropers. This IS a highly popular site, after all, so there's bound to be some hanging around somewhere.

Their point (which I agree with) is that even if most of the examples you can think of are due to Older Than They Look, there are examples of Mum Looks Like a Sister that are not due to that trope. Therefore, it’s not the same but more specific.

Edited by Synchronicity on Nov 20th 2021 at 8:59:48 AM

I've already said I agree with that. My point is that Amonimus' point makes Absurdly Youthful Mother superfluous, and I addressed shadowblack's counterarguments against that in my last post ()

Edited by JHD on Nov 20th 2021 at 10:12:04 AM

Absurdly Youthful Mother is the supertrope. In fact, it was actually split into several tropes, including Mum Looks Like a Sister — TRS thread here. It is meant to be the catch-all trope for all situations where the mom looks or seems young. And because there are cases of Absurdly Youthful Mother that don't fall into either Younger Than They Look, Mum Looks Like a Sister etc. (eg. Alice is 28 and looks 28, her daughter is 15 and looks 15), that means it's not redundant in that situation.

Edited by Synchronicity on Nov 20th 2021 at 9:23:28 AM

"And because there are cases of Absurdly Youthful Mother that don't fall into either Younger Than They Look, Mum Looks Like a Sister etc. (eg. Alice is 28 and looks 28, her daughter is 15 and looks 15), that means it's not redundant in that situation." But as I mentioned to shadowblack, there are ALSO cases of Absurdly Youthful Mother that DO fall under at least one of the other tropes (eg. the example about the 15-year-old mother growing up to become a 25-looking 45-year-old.) So yes, it IS redundant, because overlap obviously equals redundancy.

Again, Absurdly Youthful Mother is the Super-Trope. Therefore, all examples of its subtropes are also examples of it. That is how supertropes work.

If there are cases where an example fits better in the subtrope then by all means move it there. Sometimes TRS cleanup misses a spot, or a trope wasn't aware of the subtropes when they added the example. But that's not the kind of redundancy we chop.

Edited by Synchronicity on Nov 20th 2021 at 9:55:15 AM

- No, that could be more that a cleanup wasn't done.

Edited by Malady on Nov 20th 2021 at 7:56:04 AM

"Again, Absurdly Youthful Mother is the Super-Trope. Therefore, all examples of its subtropes are also examples of it. That is how supertropes work." Completely irrelevent. It doesn't matter if it's a Super-Trope, because at the end of the day, Super Tropes are still tropes in and of themselves.

Edited by JHD on Nov 20th 2021 at 11:06:53 AM

Except yes, that is actually how we do it in 98% of cases. Did you read the Super-Trope page?

Every example of Winged Humanoid is also an example of its supertrope, Vertebrate with Extra Limbs. That does not mean Vertebrate with Extra Limbs is an unnecessary trope, because there are vertebrates with limbs that are not human-shaped. Like what if it's a tiger with wings, or a mutant dog with six legs?

Now replace Winged Humanoid with Mum Looks Like a Sister and Vertebrate with Extra Limbs with Absurdly Youthful Mother, and the winged tiger and mutant dog with the other situations.

If a subtrope and its purported supertrope actually cover the exact same thing, then yes, they are redundant. But that isn't the case here since we're repeatedly pointing out that you can have examples that don't fit both. But if you have an issue with subtrope/supertrope relationships in general, then that's not something I — or this forum — can really help you with.

Edited by Synchronicity on Nov 20th 2021 at 10:15:39 AM

You've finally managed to convince me. I concede.

^ A Rare Sentence on tv tropes.

Is there a difference between Money-Making Shot and Signature Scene?

Money-Making Shot is Signature Scene "but intentional". They're usually put in trailers.

Is Good Bad Girl a duplicate of Ethical Slut?

At a glance, it seems a Good Bad Girl is promiscuous and also a "good person" just generally, while an Ethical Slut is specifically doing promiscuity ethically.

Good Bad Girl might be one of those "two chairs in the same room" situations we had with half the "Badass Whatever" tropes.

What's the difference between Nightmare Fuel Station Attendant and Creepy Good? (The former being marked as Square Peg, Round Trope doesn't help)

I submit that Big Bra to Fill is really the same thing as Most Common Superpower.

MCS is about drawn/animated women having breasts that are bigger, firmer, and perkier than is plausible for a real woman.

BBTF is about real women having smaller breasts than drawn/animated women.

So aren't they really describing the same thing? I mean, BBTF isn't even Trivia!

Big Bra to Fill is an Adaptation Deviation trope, but honestly I always found it kind of a creepy thing to record as trivia.

I thought MCS was a trope in aggregate about how there’s a trend for western superheroines to be well endowed. Because that’s how the description describes it.

Edited by MacronNotes on Nov 30th 2021 at 12:02:59 PM

What's the difference between Colbert Bump and Red Stapler?

Red Stapler's specific to items.

Ninja Prop and Metafictional Device? The latter describes the former as a combination with Chekhov's Gun. What does that mean?