Now with a sandbox!
It appears that many Nightmare Fuel pages have problems, including:
1. Listing non-scary things that made the viewer feel slightly uncomfortable at worst.
2. Having spoiler tags on them (which is against the page's guidelines).
3. Listing Fridge Horror and fan theories.
And much more!
On a few occasions, people from outside the site's community have pointed out our overly lax usage of Nightmare Fuel to make fun of us, meaning that it can legitimately harm our reputation to let this go unchecked.
The TRS thread
meant for redefining Nightmare Fuel started to become a place for cleaning up Nightmare Fuel pages in general, so we may as well move these discussions to Long Term Projects where they belong.
Here are the guidelines to determine whether something is Nightmare Fuel or not.
- This is a page whose name is intended to be taken more literally than most. It's not enough for material to be scary; to truly qualify, it has to be frightening enough to legitimately unnerve/disturb the viewer, with actually being nightmare-inducing as the ultimate endpoint.
- Good signs that something IS Nightmare Fuel include if:
- It left you feeling shaken even after the credits had rolled, you turned the last page, or are otherwise done with the work.
- You have a hard time falling asleep if you think about it at night, or have a literal nightmare about it.
- You dread that episode, scene, level, chapter, or song during re-watches, and consider skipping it.
- With that said, don't add something just because it happens to be your personal phobia. For example, spiders can be scary and many people have arachnophobia, but just because a spider happens to be in the work, it does not make a Nightmare Fuel entry. It needs to reasonably be scary to someone without the phobia.
- Don't confuse tension with fear. If the hero is in trouble, but you know he'll make it out okay at the end, it's probably not Nightmare Fuel unless the threat is especially disturbing.
- Good signs that something IS Nightmare Fuel include if:
- Explain WHY the entry scared you. Try to convey your sense of fear to your readers. Avoid putting up Zero-Context Examples.
- Remember that Weblinks Are Not Examples, and neither are quotes on their own. You should explain the horror in your own words, rather than rely on others to do so.
- Don't add things that might have scared someone. If it didn't scare you, and you don't personally know anyone else who was scared, you shouldn't be adding it to Nightmare Fuel.
- Nightmare Fuel should stick to you even after you're done with the work.
- If something is initially presented as scary but turns out to be harmless, it's most likely not Nightmare Fuel since The Reveal makes the scariness vanish.
- Jump Scares are a good source of Nightmare Fuel, but not all of them automatically qualify: being startled is not the same as being scared.
- Hypotheticals are not Nightmare Fuel:
- Remember that Trailers Always Lie: a scene that is presented as scary in the trailer could very well turn out to be inoffensive in the finished work. Only add examples from unreleased works if they were especially terrifying in the previews.
- Fan theories do not belong on the Nightmare Fuel page under any circumstance. No matter how much evidence they have to support them, don't add them until they've been officially confirmed. In the meanwhile, take them to Wild Mass Guessing.
- Fridge Horror goes on the Fridge page, not Nightmare Fuel. Don't add it unless it's Ascended Fridge Horror.
- Keep in mind the work's intended audience when considering whether or not something is Nightmare Fuel.
- If something is normal or expected in the genre, it does not automatically qualify. Violence in a Fighting Series or gore in a horror movie must be especially disturbing or gruesome by the work's standards to be Nightmare Fuel.
- Remember that Kids Shouldn't Watch Horror Films. If a work is rated PG-13 or higher but would only be scary to young children, it's not Nightmare Fuel.
- The standards on what qualifies as Nightmare Fuel are especially stringent on works aimed at children and pre-teens: kids have hyperactive imaginations, so even something benign can give them nightmares.
- Spoiler tags do not belong on Nightmare Fuel pages. Much of what scares us comes from inherently spoilery stuff such as death and the unknown, so finding spoilers on these pages should be expected.
- Nightmare Fuel is an Audience Reaction, so it needs to be scary for the audience. Describing how the characters react to something scary isn't needed. Just because something scares them, that doesn't mean it scares us as well.
- Nightmare Fuel is a No Real Life Examples, Please! page. Meta-examples involving the actors, production, or behind-the-scenes incidents are not allowed.
Guidelines when proposing cleanup of a page:
- Some rules are pretty objective. If you see a Zero-Context Example, Fridge Horror, Real Life example, speculation, In-Universe reaction that isn't scary to the viewers, examples that explicitly describe themselves as not being very scary (including "mildly creepy", "somewhat unnerving", and other synonymous phrases), or examples that are just scene summaries without going into detail about why it's so scary, you can (and should) remove them immediately without coming here to ask.
- You should also strip all spoiler tags from the page. Itty Bitty Wiki Tools has a tool for that, but it can cause problems, so if you use it be sure to preview the page and thoroughly look it over.
- Once you've fixed the objective issues with the page, bring it here so we can look at the more subjective problems, such as examples that may not be scary enough to qualify. If a consensus is reached that a certain entry does not qualify, it can be removed.
Edited by Zuxtron on Aug 1st 2020 at 9:40:30 AM
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
I agree. I think notices would be helpful.
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
Hi
I have something in mind for either ATT or Wiki Talk about this very thing; come up with something and when I post it, it can be presented there.
EDIT: Done.
Edited by Willbyr on Mar 6th 2019 at 4:16:51 AM
Portal is pretty bad, full of speculation, Fridge Horror, scene summaries, not scary elements and things that are just simply tense or suspenseful elements.
Edited by maxwellsilver on Mar 7th 2019 at 3:29:11 PM
Endless Ocean is pretty tame and almost entirely non-examples, such as not scary elements, suspenseful elements and things that "might" scare players and Nightmare Retardant.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
As someone who has played both Portal games, I can say that they do have some creepy moments, but the page needs some cleaning. The image should also be replaced, as it isn't scary, but that's for another thread
Berserk Button: misusing Nightmare Fuel
A few more examples were added to NightmareFuel.Mortal Kombat 11. As I mentioned previously, the series is so notorious for its extreme gore and violence that the standards for Nightmare Fuel are very high, and not every bloody death should count as an example.
- Jacqui plants several bombs into her opponent (with two of them going into the victim's eyes) then detonates each one in sequence to slowly tear the opponent to shreds.
- Kano's first fatality is brutally simple, in which he simply headbutts his opponent until their head explodes from the trauma.
I'm certain that Kano's fatality isn't Nightmare Fuel: the consensus seems to be that it's the most boring of the game's currently known fatalities. Given all of the gruesome deaths the characters can suffer, being headbutted a few times is very tame in comparison.
As for Jacqui's, it certainly was better received that Kano's, but I still doubt that it crosses the threshold from "brutal" to "nightmarish".
Chronic lore addict
While the game does give off some pretty thalassophobic vibes and for good reason, I do agree someone should run housekeeping on that article. I'd be in favor of keeping the bit on Thanatos with some tweaks (besides stripping spoilers of course), though, since examining him leads you to learn you've been going toe to toe with a god the entire time.
Many of the moments appear to be unintentional nightmare fuel spurred by thalassophobia, meaning that outside of scenes intended to be merely suspenseful, they should probably be evaluated on a case by case basis.
Edited by TrocyteV on Mar 8th 2019 at 7:17:58 AM
"If you spent as much time fightin' as ye did hidin', maybe this wouldn't have happened!"
Redmess
Creepy moments, yes, but nightmare fuel?
Optimism is a duty.
Any other feedback on the Monster Hunter stuff from the previous page? There were some bits I wasn't sure what to do with, but if everyone's fine with my assessment, I can make the more obvious cuts.
So here's an interesting question; when the gen:LOCK nightmare fuel cleanup is finished, what do we do with the rest of gen:LOCK's moments pages? Do we make a specific thread for it or just continue to clean them here?
Jawbreakers on sale for 99¢
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
There's actually already a separate thread for other "moments" pages, so we'll take it there if the other pages need any help.
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
Berserk Button: misusing Nightmare Fuel
For Monster Hunter, I noticed that some of these examples (Laviente, Black Flying Wyvern, Nergigante) are describing the monsters as intimidating, threatening, but not necessarily horrifying. They might cause a stress response when you have to fight them, but don't sound like the fear would stick to you once you beat the mission and turn off your game.
I've never really gotten into MH, but if the entry isn't detailed enough for a non-fan like me to understand it, it's a Zero-Context Example no matter how many irrelevant details it contains.
Yeah, the entries you mentioned are kinda on the edge. I wasn’t totally sure what to do with them, but you bring up some good points. Probably better to cut them.
I’m busy with real-life stuff right now, so I don’t think I’m in a good space to rewrite the entries that really need it, but I could make the obvious cuts and take care of the simpler rewrites.
Should I mention this thread in the edit notes? I haven’t done this before, so I’m not sure what the etiquette is.
Yeah, I haven't moved the gen:LOCK page over to the Edit Requests (I was giving it a few days to see if there was any further feedback, but it looks like there isn't).
@Crossover Enthusiast: the sandbox for the gen:LOCK page is below. Are there any examples you feel should be added before it gets put on the Edit Requests to replace the locked page?
Sandbox.Nightmare Fuel Gen Lock
If not, I'll take that to the Edit Requests thread. I'm sure once the page is live, people will pop over to suggest examples — but that will be fine.
Regarding the other Moments pages, both gen:LOCK and RWBY will need to go through the Moments clean-up page, but we can do that over there.
Edited by Wyldchyld on Mar 10th 2019 at 9:41:14 AM
If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
Braids From S286 Not Included
Does Fridge Horror include Paranoia Fuel? Because the Experiment Paranoia Fuel folder in NightmareFuel.Lilo And Stitch The Series seems like it, especially since most of the experiments' abilities are Played for Laughs.
"Rarity, are you okay? We gotta get you and your friends outta here soon!"
Page looks fine. I haven't seen the series so I can't comment on adding more examples, but there should at least be one more so it fits the three example requirement.
I thought there were other Nightmare Fuel pages out there with less than three examples. Is that something we have to clean up as well?
If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
Berserk Button: misusing Nightmare Fuel
Kano's fatality was added back to NightmareFuel.Mortal Kombat 11. Apparently, people are really set on calling a few headbutts exceptionally scary in a game where decapitation, dismemberment, and disembowelment are routine. At this point, I'm not sure if I should be deleting it again.
NightmareFuel.Amphibia isn't great to say the least. It's entirely based on this opening.
The first point is only slightly unsettling. The second point is basically Fridge Horror while the other two are exageration of very brief action sequences.
Berserk Button: misusing Nightmare Fuel
I'd absolutely be on board with cutting that whole page until the show actually comes out.
A Star Wars Nerd
I think the page for Encyclopedia Brown might have to go entirely:
This isn't scary at all, and an unsourced Unfortunate Implication. Cut, unless we can find some other trope to put it under (I'm pretty sure it's an example of something else, just can't think of what at the moment)
- During the Browns' trip to Texas, Encyclopedia hears several stories about the outlaws, including a man who was hung for lying about a gunfight, thus revealing he was part of a robber gang.
Neither of these are scary or played as such. Cut.
The only semi-legit example, but still seems kind of fridge to me. The moment was played more for drama than terror in the book.
on Encyclopedia Brown, where it vividly describes how he was beaten to death. Also Bugs Meany is a police officer, and implied to be the murderer. The link isn't working for me, but how is a parody article Nightmare Fuel, even if it is graphic? And this isn't even a part of the work itself, it's a parody from The Onion
Verdict: 3 examples that aren't even sort of scary, one piece of Fridge Horror, and one unsourced Unfortunate Implication that would probably fit better as a different ymmv item or cut entirely.
Any objections to moving the two examples that aren't totally unsalvageable and asking for a cut?
Hi
I can't see how anything from that book series could even begin to qualify as Nightmare Fuel.
A Star Wars Nerd
Moved the entry about the hitchhiker and cutlisted the page
Live and Let Die is full of non-examples. At best it's suspenseful and one example might qualify as Paranoia Fuel if moved to YMMV. Multiple examples are of Baron Samedi, who doesn't even do anything in the film, and another is the fight with Tee-Hee, which ends with Bond detaching Tee-Hee's prosthetic arm and throwing him off a train.
I think it's safe to cut.
Edited by maxwellsilver on Mar 14th 2019 at 8:18:31 AM
That's been one of the biggest problems I've encountered, too: Fridge Horror, speculation, scene summaries and character reactions seem to be where a lot of misuse is happening.
Nightmare Fuel Requirements:
Edited by Wyldchyld on Mar 6th 2019 at 9:12:59 AM
If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.