Moral Event Horizon cleanup

Not sure about Nightmare, but Dedede does sound like a bad example.

Hey guys. So, I know that this is a Cleanup Thread for existing examples of Moral Event Horizon, but I want to talk about an example I want to make with people on here before I add it in to see if there's anything I need to touch up on.

This example is for SD Gundam World Sangoku Soketsuden, in relation to something that happened in the most recent episode.

It goes as follows (I spoiler-tagged it since it's about a pretty major event);

• Moral Event Horizon: In episode 7 of Sangoku Soketsuden, Diao Chan Kshatriya defends Lyu Bu Sinanju during his battle with Cao Cao Wing Gundam and Liu Bei Unicorn Gundam. As "thanks", he crosses this by impaling her to wound Cao Cao, steals her Trinity Memory and, after she succumbs to her wound and dies, uses said Trinity Memory to fuse parts of her body onto his to become Lyu Bu Nightingale, all while only seeming grateful that she gave him an unfair advantage in the fight. By contrast, most other interpretations of Lu Bu (Including SD Gundam's previous interpretation of the character Ryofu Tallgeese) had a high level of respect and even love for Diao Chan.

What do you guys think? Any improvements I could make before adding it in?

EDIT: Nevermind. Added it in.

Edited by WolfThunder on Feb 7th 2020 at 7:30:22 AM

The storm has now resided, the wolf now rests.

Apparently this thread doesn't see much use, but I thought I'd ask anyway. I found this under the YMMV page for The Road a while back:

• Moral Event Horizon: In a rare example, the protagonist does this, stripping the thief down to nothing and sending him off to die a long, cold death in the process.

I'm really not so sure it belongs here. Having read the book/seen the movie, I can concur that it was an utterly cold-blooded and cruel action, even to someone who intended to steal their food and leave them to die himself, but here's a few refutations:

1. It was largely a case of the Man being a Pragmatic Hero. He only had one bullet in his gun, and didn't want to waste it, so just giving him a quick and merciful death to ensure he didn't go after them again was out of the question. Though I suppose he could have at least used the thief's knife on him.

2. At the Boy's urging, he goes back to leave a few supplies for him. Granted, the thief is long gone by now, but that he went back at all shows that he probably does still have a conscience.

3. He doesn't do anything else reprehensible after this incident, or even before. Worst he'd ever done before then was leave some survivors to die when there was nothing that really could have been done for them in the first place. In fact, at the very end, he admits that the Boy's compassion for everyone makes him the better person.

What do you say? Cut?

Edited by Stellarvore on Feb 16th 2020 at 2:40:48 PM

I've read that book and seen the movie, and I agree that The Man isn't shown as irredeemable after that act.

Should we cut Sephiroth from the Video games page since he has redeeming qualities despite his psychopathic nature? I'm assuming no, as he doesn't get "redeemed".

From Re:CREATORS:

• Moral Event Horizon
  • Magane shows exactly where she stands on the moral scale when she kills a bookstore owner, just because she didn't want to pay for a book that described the entire Cthulhu Mythos, which caught her interest, even using one of its beasts to do the deed for her.
  • It's easy to lose sympathy for Military Uniform Princess when she kills Mamika. For extra atrociousness, Mamika was only trying to help her.

The former is contentious as that's the worst thing she ever does on-screen, and it's her first scene as well. She does do some other scummy shit like manipulate the main character over the death of his friend that he indirectly caused, and manipulating others into fighting each other for shits and giggles, but by the end of the series she's partially responsible for saving the world and more or less operates on Blue-and-Orange Morality

The latter is a more blatant misuse as Altair (the Military Uniform Princess as she's called) remains sympathetic even after that moment. In fact, that scene is where the audience learns that she has sympathetic motives (getting revenge on the world for causing her creators suicide) and she does get sort of redeemed in the end.

On Sephiroth there's a point where the redeeming features and sympathy dissolve and all that's left is the psychopath, which is this trope to the letter. So I say keep.

This is technically a Nightmare Fuel example that only mentions the Moral Event Horizon, but I found this on YMMV/Lloyd in Space:

• Nightmare Fuel: The Halloween Episode. Would it be safe to say Francine crossed the Moral Event Horizon in that episode? She may be a little kid, but you'd have to be a complete sociopath to do what she did with a clear conscience. Though Boomer did help with it.

For context, "what she did" refers to her using her Telepathy to essentially Mind Rape her older brother Lloyd and his friends into thinking they're in a Bad Future where the space station they live in has been completely destroyed by a parasitic alien monster that turned Lloyd's friends into monsters themselves while Lloyd himself survives but has to stay in a room by himself for over sixty years until he finally figures out a way to go home safely because the monsters his friends became are waiting for him right outside his door. Her reason for doing this was because she wanted revenge on Lloyd and his friends because they scared her on Halloween. While that is admittedly quite a horrendous thing to do even for someone Francine's age (around 4-5), the issue I have with this is that Francine is technically not an actual "villain" and isn't treated as such In-Universe even after this episode, and it ends with Lloyd and Francine apologizing to each other.

Edited by SereneSpecter13 on Feb 26th 2020 at 1:43:12 AM

On a semi-hiatus from this site due to being busy with other things (may contribute here and there, but nothing major).

Question, do i need to run proposals for Moral Event Horizon through this thread, or does this thread just work on removing bad examples?

Hope your prepared for an unforgettable luncheon

Working on bad examples, but if you want to see if your example fits, you can pitch it.

Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness

We just clean up bad or questionable examples.

[EDIT TO ANNOUNCE BEING -ED]

Edited by Brainulator9 on Mar 2nd 2020 at 5:10:31 AM

Contains 20% less fat than the leading value brand!

OK I got two proposals from Arc of a Scythe.

The first one is for Big Bad Scythe Goddard. My only issue is that he does feel somewhat bad about what he did but otherwise doesn't redeem himself or show any other redeeming traits.

• The third book reveals that Scythe Goddard crossed this long before the series when he destroyed the Mars and New Hope colonies, killing his parents along with countless others as part of his goal to take over the Scythedom

The second is for a secondary antagonist Curate Mendoza. For him I'm not exactly sure what point during the book I should say he crossed it. Two thirds through the third book he manipulates people into causing a mass slaughter of innocents, however it's not revealed that he's responsible until closer to the end when he offers to cause more chaos in order to help Goddard.

What do you guys think about these?

Edited by papyru30 on Mar 2nd 2020 at 3:33:41 AM

Hope your prepared for an unforgettable luncheon

I think the slaughter of innocents would count as the MEH doesn't necessarily have to be shown on screen; it just has to be the event that marks a villain as irredeemable- and fans will disagree on where that line is, thus making this YMMV.

Both examples seem good to me.

Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness

Thanks for the advice.

Hope your prepared for an unforgettable luncheon

YMMV.Mother 3

• Moral Event Horizon: Porky Minch crosses it with the very first action he partakes in by being responsible for the creation of the chimeras, and by that extent, Hinawa's death. And after he hits rock bottom, he begins digging, crossing the line again and again and again throughout the story, until finally crossing it one last time with the reveal of what he did to Claus.

Wow. This entry is just bad. It's claiming he keeps crossing the line, even though you can only cross it once. Earthbound's YMMV said that he crossed the MEH back in that game too. Speaking of...

YMMV.Earthbound

• Moral Event Horizon: Porky Minch crosses it at the end when he unleashes Giygas to bring the universe into darkness.
  • Though you barely get to know the guy, and it happens very early in, there's still no going back after Porky's mom kills Buzz Buzz.

I'd at least remove the second part of this, as Porky's mom is always a Jerkass, not a villain, and she never understood who Buzz Buzz actually is.

I think that the Earthbound series' pages might need some looking over. These seem to be some of the older pages on the wiki.

Edited by PlasmaPower on Mar 4th 2020 at 5:11:27 AM

Thomas fans needed! Come join me in the the show's cleanup thread!

Is Death Note in need of a cleanup? There are multiple instances listed for Light and Higuichi and Mikami's is a ZCE.

I have heard before that Death Note is one of the older pages on the wiki, so it might need some attention.

Can we make cleanup threads for work pages to be put under Short-Term? Or should we just use the respective threads for all the questionable examples?

Edited by PlasmaPower on Mar 5th 2020 at 2:50:45 PM

Thomas fans needed! Come join me in the the show's cleanup thread!

Here's an example I removed from The LEGO Movie.

• Moral Event Horizon: Subverted by Lord Business crossing it when he erases Good Cop's face and forces Bad Cop to use the Kragle on his own parents. This is before The Reveal that he just wants to be special, as well as the fact that the Kragle's effects are easily undone.

Lord Business is redeemed and it uses a subverted example of the MEH. Should I put a note telling Tropers not to give Lord Business as committing the MEH?

Yes, I am using a modded version of Lego Indy 1 for my avatar.

There's an entry from YMMV.Learning With Manga FGO that I kind of question:

• Moral Event Horizon: The male protagonist so far was shown to be at the very least harmless, only focusing on his obsession with feminine boys. In strip 62 of Even More, he's shown to be at least on par with Gudako in terms of depravity (as far as the comic allowed) when he had Goldorf Musik Strapped to an Operating Table and then turned him into a statue with the permission of Da Vinci.

Ignoring how the scene in question is played for laughs, Goldorf shows up just fine in a later strip, so it's not like the male protagonist killed him or anything. What do you guys think?

<(0_0<) <(0_0)> (>0_0)> KIRBY DANCE

I don't think MEH applies to works with Negative Continuity.

There is continuity in the Riyoverse, but the problem is that pretty much everything is played for comedy there, and a good amount of it is the dark kind. It's almost impossible for anyone to cross the MEH there, so that entry sounds more fitting for Not So Harmless than anything.

Hey guys, do you think it would be alright to say that D.W. from Arthur crossed the MEH in the infamous episode "Arthur's Big Hit" since she not only smashed Arthur's model plane without any remorse but also did not show him any sympathy when his friends not only turned against him because he hit her in retaliation but also when he himself was punched by Binky, which could have severely injured him? D.W. was already a hated character from the start of the show, but it is her actions in this particular episode that fans really hate her for and that truly established her as an irredeemable bitch in their eyes.

On a semi-hiatus from this site due to being busy with other things (may contribute here and there, but nothing major).

No. Among MEH requirements, some including this one being objective, one is that the character is written to be evil.

SoundCloud

Aren’t you the same guy who was bashing D.W. according to this ATT query?

Edited by PlasmaPower on Mar 23rd 2020 at 8:39:29 AM

Thomas fans needed! Come join me in the the show's cleanup thread!

Yes, it is.

Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness