Broken Base Cleanup

Bringing up the following example from Intolerable Cruelty:

• Broken Base: While some fans of The Coen Brothers feel it's one of their weakest films, as it's atypical of their usual works, other fans think it's one of their funniest.

Cut. Doesn't describe how split the fandom is about the movie.

So I found this on Shin Megami Tensei III: Nocturne and it feels questionable:

• While many were happy when the HD Remaster was announced, fans are split as to whether or not it's worth the investment. On the one hand, the visual upgrade and addition of voice acting is nice and (after an update) there are a number of quality-of-life features and changes to make the game more newcomer-friendly. On the other hand, the lack of any new content aimed at long-time fans (such as an extra higher difficulty or a new area) and the reported technical issues soured plenty of people. The steep price tag and launch-day dlc ($50 USD for the base game, $70 for the deluxe edition, and that's before the rather messy regional pricing is factored in) were seen as especially galling for a port of a then-17-year-old-game.^note 18 for international players

So the Japanese version was released 6 months prior to the example being added but it feels like it was written with the US version in mind which only came out recently (a couple days ago for people who bought the deluxe version and today for those who didn't). It also seems to be mostly complaining rather than being neutral.

Also I've noticed that people are using Porting Disaster to purely complain about the Steam version.

Bringing up the following example from Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within:

• Broken Base: A lot of fans were annoyed that none of the games were adapted to the big screen before Spirits Within, while others argue that each game is unconnected and it makes sense that the film would be too.

Can someone who remembers the comic better than I do help with BrokenBase.Homestuck? There's also a Base-Breaking Character section and that's the only part I really tried to expand upon. (I also added the part about June because holy shit that debate is intense.)

Bringing up the following example from Skyfall:

• Broken Base: While the movie was a massive critical and commercial success and beloved in some quarters for its cinematography, darker themes, and grittier feel, ironically some diehard Bond fans frequently hate it. There's a variety of reasons for this (a completely joyless and ineffective Bond, the villain's relatively mundane plan, the child-prostitute turned Bond Girl [and the way Bond lets her die], the destruction of Bond's classic Aston Martin), but most of them contribute to the greater issue that the movie (to some) feels like it's going out of its way to mock and belittle old-school Bond and his fans; in fact, one of the themes of the movie is that Bond himself is an outdated, useless concept... which, sure, could be an interesting idea, but probably less so to people who just paid money to watch a James Bond movie. The other half of the broken base argues that the movie, rather than mocking classic Bond tropes, actually defends them - first stating the case against them, but then tearing it down, ultimately concluding that Bond will always be needed. M's stellar defense of the 00 Section is one of the iconic scenes of the movie, but there's a more subtle cue in the paintings — after Q likens Bond to a once-grand warship now useful only as scrap, pay attention to the paintings in the new M's offices at the end of the movie. They're of warships in their prime — Q was wrong in his assessment of Bond.

I don't usually post here, but I found this on YMMV.Greta Van Fleet:

• Broken Base: Between fans who think that they are too similar to Led Zeppelin (and, to a lesser extent, other 70s Classic Rock groups such as Aerosmith and Rush) and those who think that they are already unique enough.

Is this legit?

Most people who find GVF to be too similar to Zeppelin are outside of the band's fanbase, I find. Then again I'm a rather casual GVF listener and haven't interacted much with fan communities.

From Kilroy Was Here:

• Broken Base: It got real hard to be a Styx fan about a month after this album came out. To be fair, the rise of new wave displaced the other arena rock bands too (REO Speedwagon, Journey, etc.). But those bands didn't do it to themselves with a single album.

This sounds like one of those "Not really an example of BB, just complaining" cases. There's no sign of "Some people think this, some don't" or "Is this [album] better/worse than [other album]?" arguments, only whining. To top it off there's also a justifying edit in there that argues with itself.

Bringing up the following examples from Sonic X:

• Broken Base: Out of all the Sonic TV adaptations, this one has the most broken reception from the fanbase.
  • The anime itself is debated over whether it's good or not. Some Sonic fans claimed that the English dub ruined it, and the show is actually good in the first place. Other argued the fact that Chris' status as spotlight stealer at the expense of Sonic and friends screen time proved that the show's already bad without some Bowdlerization from 4Kids. Others think Chris is annoying, but that the show is still enjoyable due to the video game characters (with the exception of Sonic) getting a good amount of screen time to save it, or alternatively claim him to be just one of many problems it has. Considering it's Sonic we're talking about, it's kind of unavoidable.
  • The English dub by 4Kids Entertainment. Some decry it for its Bowdlerization like the censorship of character deaths, the Dub Induced Plot Holes created by the characters' deaths being censored, and making the emotional moments less impacting compared to the Japanese version. Others think that it's still one of 4Kids' better translations due to its solid English voice cast, its writing making the Broken Aesops less Anvilicious and making some of the emotional moments still impacting, and handling some of the characterization better than the Japanese version.
  • Season 3 is often considered to be either the best season or the worst season. Best because it had its own original plot, the humans were mostly gone, the writing was darker, and Cosmo. Worst because the plot and villains had little in common with any other aspect of the Sonic franchise, being stuck on a spaceship didn't fit Sonic's free roaming nature, Tails taking the spotlight even further from Sonic, and Cosmo.
  • Dr. Eggman telling Dark Sonic to chill. Some feel that Eggman did the right thing as Sonic could have potentially harmed his friends in the form and lost complete control of himself. Others feel that Eggman stopping him deprived them of a wicked opportunity to see Sonic kick serious butt (especially given the issues Sonic had been going through that season), and that DR. EGGMAN of all people telling Sonic to get his emotions under control was very hypocritical and in bad taste. Even then, some will still argue that was the point of him doing it.
  • The final two episodes. Some think that they're very tearjerking and emotional end for the series, others think they were poorly written and horribly mean-spirited towards Tails.

I found this on the YMMV page for The Nevers: (bolding mine.)

Episodes five and six (with the introduction of the Galanthi and time travel) created a big one, with several fans commenting that these episodes had made them give up on the show entirely, as they found it to be "ridiculous" and "overly confusing/complicated".

The entry doesn't mention where the break is- just that "several fans" didn't like the episodes. I don't think the unsourced quotes at the end add anything either.

It hasn't been six months since the series even premiered, so all base-breaking entries can be cut from the YMMV page.

Re: Sonic

Not too familiar with this show, but in my opinion:

• Second last bullet should be cut. Sounds like a specific contentious action, which isn't really broken base.
• Last bullet needs more detail.
• Other examples could probably be slimmed down a bit, they repeat ideas a few times. The sentences about "some people like x but others dislike it" should also be cut if they don't add detail, because all that is implied by being on the page anyways.

Bringing up the following example from The Simpsons S 12 E 6 The Computer Wore Menace Shoes:

• Broken Base: Is this episode a really good spoof of The Prisoner (1967) or yet another sign that The Simpsons has descended into madness and Seasonal Rot?

You could also post the same request in The Simpsons cleanup thread here.

Edited by Nen_desharu on Jun 21st 2021 at 11:45:15 AM

From LarryBoy: The Cartoon Adventures:

• Broken Base:
  • Fans either enjoyed or disliked this take on VeggieTales; LarryBoy getting his own show? awesome! Did the Flash animation age well? Er, not so much...
  • Like with the Netflix series, fans either appreciated the more lighthearted/campy appeal or disliked it compared to the original episodes.

This sounds too much like "some people liked it and others didn't" (especially the first bullet point).

It might work as a BB for the franchise itself?

Bringing up the following example from The Watch (2021):

• Broken Base: The heavy modifications made to the series seem to have divided the Discworld fanbase into two factions:
  • Those who are willing to take the show on its own merits and view it as a completely separate entity to the novels.
  • Those who feel that the numerous changes made to the series have robbed them of the faithful adaptation that they have wanted for many years.

I don't know anything about the series but that's a bad example because individual subbullets are for separate examples only. That's one example divided in half. Cut it for now and link to this thread inviting fans and critics of the series to discuss a proper example here.

From YMMV.Phineasand Ferb Star Wars:

• Broken Base: Like its predecessor, but to a much lesser degree. Reviews from Phineas and Ferb fans and casual critics have been almost universally positive. Most of the backlash (which is still in the minority) has come from the hardcore Star Wars community (Guess that disclaimer of being "not canon" at the end of the word crawl was someone on the staff being savvy). Even that's not consistent; the In the Empire song was a hit with Stormtrooper cosplayers.

So thi just sounds like a Vocal Minority at best, and from my experience, the response to this episode seems to be generally positive. Can I cut it?

I think people got a little twitchy at the premise but the actual special was well-received. The Marvel special was a bit more contentious.

I'm ultimately agreeing with you.

Edited by mightymewtron on Jun 29th 2021 at 12:30:51 PM

Oh, I don't disagree, but compared to the Marvel special, I don't sure if the Star Wars special once it aired was actually much of a Broken Base?

Bringing up the following examples from Clifford the Big Red Dog:

• Broken Base:
  • The movie, which has a villain that tried to and succeeded in taking Clifford away from Emily Elizabeth, and a large heaping dose of Mood Whiplash thanks to Jody Gray's contribution that is an extremely depressing soundtrack. Part of the fanbase loved the emotional roller coaster. Part of the fanbase (which wanted a happy romp around Birdwell Island and nothing more) thinks it sucked because of being put through said emotional roller coaster.
  • Clifford's design in the Teaser Trailer for the 2021 live action movie. Some people think that the live action version of Clifford as a puppy is cute. Others find it lazy (a regular puppy photoshopped to look red and big) and find his dark red color (as opposed to the bright fire-engine red of the illustrated and cartoon Clifford) too close to the color of blood. Some people have even compared it to the original Sonic design and Cats.

Do we have to wait until release before we add examples to unreleased works?

Edited by Delibirda on Jul 1st 2021 at 10:55:28 AM

Yes. Release plus 6 months in fact. You can make note of existing conflicts but they need to wait to see if ongoing.