Condemned by History cleanup thread

Harry Potter itself isn't condemned by History. The books still sell well, the fandom is still alive, there are still positive memes and its still seen as a contributor to a positive step in pop culture.

And the people that are genuinely excessively scrutinizing the books messages are less of a mass movement or a mass trend but are specific trends defined by 1) turned off by its fanbase that it colored their views of the books 2) outgrew the books or 3) hard progressive and hard left people that make condemnatory interpretations/reviews for every single massive mass marketed pop culture media(just look at what they say about every single MCU movie combined with the fact that said crowd viewed Bioshock Infinite negatively) which I will not go into the details of because of ROCEJ.

Alternatively theres' the readanotherbook crowd, but thats' too toungue in cheek and more of a poking fun meme at most rather than anything too unironically genuine, and they may enjoy the books in private but wish older millenials and everyone to the centre of the political spectrum stop excessively meming about the book where it dosent fit.

For the fanbase itself, it seems to be more of "author is awful, but I grew up with the books and I will go death of the author time"

Edited by xie323 on Aug 22nd 2021 at 9:14:52 AM

Even then it's not like Rowling is on the same level as Bill Cosby or Woody Allen!

Found this and questioned its addition.

• At its release Niggaz4Life was N.W.A's biggest commercial success, debuting at #2 on the Billboard 200 chart and reaching #1 in its second week as the first album by a hip-hop group to top the chart. But as time went on, critics and audiences alike found its more violent and misogynistic lyrics overly cartoonish in comparison to the group's previous LP, Straight Outta Compton, and its production was considered far from a saving grace. Nowadays Niggaz4Life is seen as a mere footnote in rap history, barely mentioned in the biopic Straight Outta Compton.

Yes, it's not as popular as it was and it has a lower opinion these days but some hip hop D Js still play some songs from it. A song from it even made GTA Radio.

I have seen that album (I believe) on at least one /mu/ chart. Cut.

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Someone recently added an entry for Bubsy. Wasn't he already brought up and deemed not an example in the past? If so, is it safe to cut? The entry in question:

• Bubsy was rather popular back in the day, with his first game doing well enough in both sales and reception to kickstart several sequels and even a pilot for a cartoon (that was never made). Even the now notorious Bubsy 3D received only mixed reviews at the time. What caused many to turn on the bobcat was largely thanks to hindsight, on top of the internet, as numerous internet reviewers (most notably JonTron) brought attention back to the original games, the cartoon and Bubsy 3D, exposing many of their problems to a wider audience, which would subsequently cause Bubsy to become a notorious punching bag by the internet and whether good rep he had prior to all but disappear. When Bubsy was briefly brought back during the mid-2010s, the common reception from critics and fans at the time was a mere why?

I saw that. 3D was brought up and cut, and a different troper (as far as I know) added this entry. I feel like long ago in this thread the infamous orange bobcat was discussed and cut, but I'm not sure.

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i think with the less strict standards that came with the "condemned by history" rename, the original game, at least, might actually be a valid example. It got a lot of perfect or near-perfect ratings from game magazines at launch (scroll down a bit).

Interesting. Keep then, under the new standards.

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I think the 4Kids Entertainment writeup could use a bit of revising, mostly because it feels a bit lopsided:

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• Once upon a time, 4Kids Entertainment was one of the most profitable anime distributors in America, holding properties like Pokémon and Yu-Gi-Oh!. The company was always hated by the anime fandom due to their localization practices. They heavily censored and edited titles to the point that they had little in common with the source material. But their properties were massively popular amongst the general population. As time went on and the anime boom began to lose steam, 4Kids' fortunes took a drastic turn for the worse. They suffered two bankruptcies, were sold off to various other companies in pieces, and had all their biggest properties scattered across different companies. It is pretty safe to say that 4Kids is gone for good. While they did have some well-received properties in their day (and some are still looked upon with fondness and nostalgia, such as the aforementioned series, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (2003), and Kirby: Right Back at Ya!), today they are remembered mostly as "butchers" of various anime properties. In particular, they are remembered for their disastrous localization of One Piece.

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Namely, while I think 4Kids do apply for Condemned by History on the grounds of them having been a genuinely major force in the anime exporting industry, the point places so much focus on the backlash that it diminishes the weight of the company's original standing. Here's my attempt at a rewrite:

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• During the late 90's and much of the 2000's, 4Kids Entertainment was one of the most profitable anime distributors in America, being responsible for the popularization of shows like Pokémon: The Series and Yu-Gi-Oh!. While they always generated distaste from hardcore anime fans for their reliance on the Cut And Paste Translation, Bowdlerize, and Cultural Translation tropes, they still remained a Cash-Cow Franchise with the general public. However, the decline of the anime boom and a shaky localization of One Piece resulted in them rapidly losing steam, suffering two bankruptcies, being divided among multiple other companies, and losing all of their properties. While some of their works were well-received at the time and remain fondly remembered today, 4Kids' reputation with hardcore anime fans ultimately overtook their general popularity in the fallout of their demise, leading their name to become synonymous with Macekre even among laypeople.

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I wanted to more evenly divide the focus among the "before" and "after" here, streamlining the writing and making it more apparent that yes, despite their bad reputation today they were huge back in the 2000's.

Edited by bowserbros on Aug 25th 2021 at 9:51:30 AM

Be kind.

It sounds better, I'm all for it.

To win, you need to adapt, and to adapt, you need to be able to laugh away all the restraints. Everything holding you back.

The rewrite is far better than the original, and also more focused. I'm for replacing the original with the rewrite.

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Don't forget that Kirby: Right Back at Ya! is among the best anime localized by 4Kids and Nelvana (with a good number of Kirby fans saying that it's better than the original Japanese version).

Edited by Nen_desharu on Aug 25th 2021 at 11:08:33 AM

Kirby is awesome.

Replaced the 4Kids point with the rewrite; I don't think we need to specifically describe the Kirby anime since it fits in with the general description of certain works being well-received then and now (plus I didn't want to make the point too long). Besides, the Kirby anime's dub being better-regarded than the original can probably go on the show's own YMMV page if it's not there already.

Edited by bowserbros on Aug 25th 2021 at 9:59:19 AM

Be kind.

This is a question that's been in the back of my mind for ages, but I'm curious as to whether or not the Gross-Out Show would apply for this trope. It was really big in the 90's (apparently as a reaction to bodily fluids being extremely taboo during the height of the AIDS crisis in the 80's) and stuck around for much of the 2000's, but nowadays it seems to be treated as a cultural Old Shame at best, at least from what I've observed. Like yeah there's still grossout media being made, but aside from occasional outliers like MeatCanyon I hardly ever hear it discussed positively. Thoughts?

Be kind.

Another anime example I'm thinking of bringing up: The Familiar Of Zero. Very popular in the 00s but now when it's brought up it's as a punchline about the extremely toxic main character relationship and being the Ur-Example of the discredited isekai genre.

"Blowing it up always works" -RIP Goblin Boommaster, 2014-2015

I'm not 100% sure if isekai as a genre is discredited per say. It gets made fun of a lot for overexposure, yes, but the genre as a whole doesn't seem to have declined yet, and plenty of isekai anime are still being made and advertised.

As for The Familiar of Zero itself, I'm not in the loop enough to know whether or not it applies; I certainly haven't heard it being used as a punchline in quite the same way as stuff like Oreimo or 4Kids. Again though, maybe someone more tuned into the scene can give a more definitive opinion.

EDIT: Apparently the final volume was published in 2017, so it may be slightly too early to bring it up. Maybe keep it on the back-burner for now.

Edited by bowserbros on Aug 27th 2021 at 4:50:34 AM

Be kind.

Would Eric Clapton qualify? While he was hailed as one of the greats, he has gained a sizable hatedom among younger listeners for his racist rant in 76 (that he never apologized for, and has in-fact hinted that he still holds these views) and for his anti-mask/anti-vax views, and the fact that he put out a song that can be interpreted as anti-lockdown. There are also people who say he was never good, that his style is bland and ripped off black blues artists, and that his fans are stereotyped as middle-aged suburban wannabe guitarists (and he still has a sizable following among baby boomers, who dismiss the controversy around him as "cancel culture").

pee pee poo poo

I have never heard any of that, and if he still has a sizable fanbase he doesn't count. Clapton is still generally considered one of the greats, regardless of his politics.

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Maybe it's just mostly on Reddit. Several articles of him concerning not playing at concerts where social distancing rules are in effect made the front page of Reddit, and the comments mostly shit on him and his drunken racist tyrade from '76. Subs like r/guitarcirclejerk also mock him relentlessly.

Edited by supernintendo128 on Sep 2nd 2021 at 2:32:14 PM

pee pee poo poo

Because I haven't used Reddit in years (due to the IMO toxic community), I would not know that. Yeah it might just be a Reddit thing.

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I do hear critical discussion of Clapton on Twitter and in certain Discord chatrooms too, but it never outright goes into "he never deserved to be big in the first place" territory, rather portraying him as a once-great musician who fell down a rabbit hole of paranoia and general toxicity over the course of his career. I'm not exactly a fan of Clapton either, but he doesn't seem applicable for Condemned by History at the moment.

From what I've witnessed, Elvis Presley tends to be more often accused of stealing from black musicians (his manager's comments don't help), and even then it's not enough to make him this trope.

Edited by bowserbros on Sep 2nd 2021 at 5:44:39 AM

Be kind.

I've never heard of the Clapton stuff, but I'm a person who doesn't care about 90% of pop-culture, so I'm usually out of the loop with this stuff anyway.

Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness

Perhaps it's more of a case of Periphery Hatedom then?

pee pee poo poo

Maybe, given the huge divide in tastes between the current generation and audiences from Clapton's own time. In this case it seems to be restricted to the aforementioned Reddit users given that, again, I haven't seen criticism of Clapton get anywhere near that aggressive on other sites, even when bringing up stuff like the aforementioned '76 rant.

Edited by bowserbros on Sep 3rd 2021 at 11:21:04 AM

Be kind.

The "traditional pop" example in the Music subpage was supposed to be cut, right? Someone had cut it with no edit reason (and, incidentally, never came forward to discuss why they did so), this thread decided it should remain cut, then someone else restored the example because it was deleted with no edit reason, and it has remained on the page since.

If we still agree that it should be cut, I'll go ahead and do it with a proper edit reason citing this thread. (For the record, I agree that traditional pop is more "forgotten" than "hated" nowadays.)