Note: If a newly launched trope was already given a No Real Life Examples, Please! or Limited Real Life Examples Only designation while it was being drafted on the Trope Launch Pad, additions to the proper index do not need to go through this thread. Instead, simply ask the mods to add the trope via this thread
.
This is the thread to report tropes with problematic Real Life sections.
Common problems include:
- Conversation on the Main Page
- Flame Bait
- Squicky content
- Impossible in Real Life
Real Life sections on the wiki are kept as long as they don't become a problem. If you find an article with such problems, report it here. Please note that the purpose of this thread is to clean up and maintain real life sections, not raze them. Cutting should be treated as a last resort, so please only suggest cutting RL sections or a subset thereof you think the examples in question are completely unsalvageable.
If historical RL examples are not causing any problems, consider whether it would be better to propose a No Recent Examples, Please! (via this forum thread) for RL instead of NRLEP. If RL examples are causing problems only for certain subjects, consider whether a Limited Real Life Examples Only restriction would be preferable to NRLEP.
If you think a trope should be No Real Life Examples, Please! or Limited Real Life Examples Only, then this thread is the place to discuss it. However, please check Keep Real Life Examples first to see if it has already been brought up in the past. If not, state the reasons and add it to the crowner.
Before adding to the crowner:
- The trope should be proposed in the thread, along with reasons for why a crowner is necessary instead of a cleanup.
- There must be support from others in thread.
- Any objections should be addressed.
- Allow a minimum of 24 hours for discussion.
When adding to the crowner:
- Be sure to add the trope name, a link to where the discussion started, the reasons for crownering, whether the restriction being proposed is NRLEP or LRLEO (and in the latter case, which subject(s) the restriction would be for), and the date added.
- Announce in thread that you are adding the item.
- An ATT advert should be made as well (batch items together if more than one trope goes up in a day).
In order for a crowner to pass:
- Must have been up for a minimum of a week
- There must be a 2:1 ratio
- If the vote is exactly 2:1 or +/- 1 vote from that, give it a couple extra days to see if any more votes come in
- Once passed, tropes must be indexed on the appropriate NRLEP index
- Should the vote fail, the trope should be indexed on KRLE page
Sex Tropes, Rape and Sexual Harassment Tropes, and Morality Tropes are banned from having RL sections so tropes under those indexes don't need crowner vote.
Crowner entries that have already been called will have "(CLOSED)" appended to them — and are no longer open for discussion.
After bringing up a trope for discussion, please wait at least a day for feedback before adding it to the crowner.
NRLEP tag:
%%https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13350380440A15238800
LRLEO tag:
%%The following restrictions apply: [list restriction(s) here]
%%https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13350380440A15238800
Notes:
- This thread is not for general discussion regarding policies for Real Life sections or crowners. Please take those conversations to this Wiki Talk thread.
- Do not try to overturn previous No Real Life Examples, Please! or Limited Real Life Examples Only decisions without a convincing argument.
- As mentioned here, the consensus is that NRLEP warnings in trope page descriptions can use bold text so that they stand out.
- The [[noreallife]] tag doesn't currently work. This is a deprecated tag that was introduced many years ago — originally, it would have displayed a NRLEP warning banner when you edited the page. However, there's been some staff conversation (Feb 2024) about what a new technical solution might look like, so we'd advise against deleting these from pages, at least until we have a decision as to whether it'll be fixed or replaced.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Mar 8th 2024 at 10:49:13 AM
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Ok. What should be done with the cut request?
Edited by costanton11 on Jul 15th 2022 at 1:32:22 PM
(she/her)
I declined the request and put Dirty Cop on the crowner so that it can go through the process properly.
Edited by MacronNotes on Jul 15th 2022 at 3:11:06 PM
Macron's notes
Angry babby
Since I was specifically called, I'll give my opinion that, with obvious exceptions for controversial or narrative-exclusive tropes, I'm more lenient on troping in Real Life folders than Creator pages, as the Real Life folders should be for real life in general, but Creator folders should only be for information that informs their work or curated public persona, as they're meant to function as "super-pages" for all their creative works.
I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
IIRC, the rationale for keeping real life examples on Dirty Cop was that we were restricting it to cases where the officer(s) in question was/were convicted in a court of law, so it was less a case of subjective morality and more a question of objective criminal records.
I don't get the thinking behind this at all. By this logic, I can put entries for Brahms in the Real Life folders for Mentor Archetype, Eccentric Mentor, and perhaps even Wizard Beard (for three) — maybe because it's "fun" or something — but am prohibited from putting the exact same entries on his Creator Page. That makes utterly no sense. Either the same thinking should hold for both (in which case, the tropes Lord Gro cut should be restored on the Brahms page), or neither (in which case, we should not be troping real life people at all).
Regardless, I'm not duty bound to follow this approach, which is what it appears I'm being told to do here.
Lucas the Dreamer
It’s still a morality trope and a ROCEJ nightmare. Also I don’t think “Was convicted in court” really translates to “Neutral and Objective”.
Edited by TheLivingDrawing on Jul 15th 2022 at 9:27:13 AM
Why waste time when you can see the last sunset last?
Angry babby
You wouldn't add those tropes because, barring Eccentric Mentor, they're misuse. Mentor Archetype is only relevant in a story because it's about Character Development, and Wizard Beard is for, well, wizards, not composers. But that's why we vote (or should vote) NRLEP to tropes like these.
I'm pretty sure there is currently no site-wide ban on RL examples, even human ones, which is why we still have this thread, so removing an entire section on the basis that it's against rules is incorrect unless the trope is already NRLEP or it's misuse. So removing all the RL tropes on Attending Your Own Funeral was premature.
My point about Creator pages is more that you shouldn't make a Creator page and only list tropes about them as a person. If they have no tropable works then you shouldn't make them a Creator page anyway, and then you wouldn't need to worry about the crosswicking issue.
I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
Did you look at the Real Life folder for Wizard Beard? There are entries for musicians (Oak Ridge Boys, ZZ Top), authors (Tolstoy, George Mac Donald), court magicians, philosophers, and occultists. Brahms would fit in there just fine as it stands right now.
Unless the folder is all misuse, which it certainly appears to be. But what you’re telling me is that if the folder is all misuse, I have to crowner it and not cut it outright? That doesn’t make any sense either.
At this point, I’m planning to bring the folder up for removal on grounds of misuse without a crowner.
Edited by BoltDMC on Jul 16th 2022 at 3:36:27 AM
the Retromancer
Actually remind me, if a trope that can only happen in fiction has shoehorned RL examples, if the entire folder is removed before being brought up, does it mean NRLEP discussion no longer necessary?
Edited by Amonimus on Jul 16th 2022 at 1:40:47 PM
TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
So far, we haven’t generally been crownering tropes if we can remove their Real Life folder outright. But we don’t have to stick to that necessarily.
Nintendo Fanatic Extraordinaire
Cut all real-life examples. The trope is for old male mages. Mages (as we know it) don't exist in real life.
Thank you. I plan to do so shortly.
Angry babby
Yeah, Wizard Beard can be cut if the examples are misuse, unless there's some real life examples that inform the trope, like if someone with that kind of beard was trying to study magic in real life.
I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
AAT is arguing for cutting WhatAnIdiot.Game Shows and it's subpages as violating WAI being NoRealLife.Too Controversial. Besides being complaining against RL people, WAI requires the You'd Expect/Instead format which doesn't apply to RL people as they don't have the narrative reasons You'd Expect them to make the smart choice Instead of stupidity (many Game Show examples lack this now mandatory formatting which is grounds for deletion anyway), so the reasons we allow some No Real Life under Reality TV doesn't seem to apply.
Should the WAI Game Shoe pages be axed? Or is there some reason/argument to keep?
Angry babby
I'm surprised those pages managed to stick around as long as they have. I like reading them but they don't really sit right with me as they are calling real people idiots. Some of the listed answers aren't even really "stupid," just wrong.
Certain reality shows might be able to skirt by though, but not game shows, which don't really turn contestants into "characters" in the same way.
Edited by mightymewtron on Jul 16th 2022 at 9:25:28 AM
I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
Bonnie's Artistic Cousin
I remember a few discussions about the game show thing, I guess nobody actually took action.
Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
EpicFail.Game Shows also exists, but that one might be ok? it's less insulting.
How sweet it is
[Edit: Too soon. Let's wait until tomorrow.]
Edited by Berrenta on Jul 17th 2022 at 3:20:18 AM
she/her | TRS needs your help! | Contributor of Trope Report
You'll never find out who I am
The real life section or No Longer with Us. All of it is either a general example or troping real people.
- When ska band Five Iron Frenzy's trumpet player missed a show (he was attending a wedding), vocalist Reese Roper made a comment to the fans that Brad was "in a better place". This comment spawned rumors on the Internet that Brad really was dead. The band then made fun of the entire incident in their song "The Untimely Death of Brad".
- There's the one about the woman who asks after an acquaintance's teenage son, who hasn't been seen for some weeks, and is told he's "gone up to Jesus" Jesus College .
- This happened to old-time Western actress Dorothy Fay. A friend paid a visit to her at her nursing home, but after finding her room empty she was told by a staff member that Dorothy was "gone". The friend immediately telephoned an acquaintance who worked at the Telegraph newspaper in the UK; a full obituary was published in the following day's edition. It turned out that Dorothy had actually "gone" to another floor of the nursing home and was still very much alive. The newspaper's obituary editor had to publish a correction and also had to call her son, John Ritter, to apologize personally for the error. In a sad coincidence, Fay eventually outlived Ritter by two months.
- In fact, there are a number of similar incidents included in The Other Wiki's list of premature obituaries.
- In fact, there are a number of similar incidents included in The Other Wiki's list of premature obituaries
- At least the Russian sector of web-news feeds is very fond of headlines like "The world has lost the famous singer X". Turns out X retired or moved into sports or something.
- One time during a storm, the captain of a commercial plane announced to the passengers, "We're going to try to land at O'Hare. Three of the last five planes that tried didn't make it." After a stunned silence from the passengers, the intercom came back on: "It's been suggested I tell you that the other planes flew on to Milwaukee."
Angry babby
Other than the Russian one (which is general) and maybe a couple of the anecdotal ones (need to be verified?), I don't see the problem and I find them quite funny.
I would have supported deleting this as troping real life people. Frankly, I'm finding the application of this "policy" confusing, inconsistent, and arbitrary.
Can we please have an official consensus on this issue if we don't have one already, rather than by fiat? And if there is codified policy on this, could a link be provided? The only thing I can find is this at the Creator Page Guidelines under what not to do:
"Tropes applied to the creator as if they are a fictional character. Please resist the urge to apply character tropes to Real Life people."
which was in practice treated as "Never do this" in a discussion over edits on the Johannes Brahms page (though note well that "resist the urge" is not a synonym for "never"). I'm sorry to be a broken record nudge on this issue, but it strikes me as a major problem.
Personally, I'd like to have something that's officially moderator established and approved, whatever that may be.
Friends forevermore
Brahms is a bad example for all of this anyway, because composers' pages should be in Music/.
I had a dog-themed avatar before it was cool.
I would think this applies for both Creator pages and Music pages for creators in that discipline, but I could be wrong.
agreed. i regularly axe trope sections from Creator/ pages because the tropes are applied to the person and not their work, but if Mewtron is right, i shouldn't be doing that.
Crown Description:
Vote up to either forbid all real life examples (No Real Life Examples Please) or forbid real life examples for specific subjects (Limited Real Life Examples Only); vote down to Keep Real Life Examples. To add a trope to a No Real Life Examples Please index or the Limited Real Life Examples Only index, its crowner option must meet the following criteria:- Stable 2:1 ratio needed for NRLEP or LRLEO
- Must have been up for a minimum of a week
- If the vote is exactly 2:1 or +/- 1 vote from that, give it a couple of extra days to see if more votes come in.
Edited by BoltDMC on Jul 15th 2022 at 11:31:42 AM