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Removing complaining, bashing and other negativity from the wiki

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Inspired by this thread, I've noticed that this wiki doesn't have a dedicated cleanup thread for negativity.

As we all know, Complaining About Shows You Don't Like, Creator Bashing and other negativity isn't desired on the wiki, except in a few selected areas like reviews and several Darth Wiki pages (and even then, with limitations). And yet, it's one of the most common sins wiki contributors can make.

So, if you find a page, TLP or discussion whose content seems like a straight-up insult or any other bitching - including complainy soapboxing -, you might ask here for help with removing said content.

The sandbox for this project is located at Works That Require Cleanup of Complaining.

Edited by MacronNotes on Apr 27th 2022 at 5:36:47 AM

PlasmaPower Since: Jan, 2015
#3051: Jul 13th 2020 at 6:36:57 PM

[up] Don't think of it as defending him. It's more like you're trying to prevent drama troping/Creator Bashing on a wiki about entertainment.

Edited by PlasmaPower on Jul 13th 2020 at 10:37:08 AM

Thomas fans needed! Come join me in the the show's cleanup thread!
tropineasily Currently Suspended Since: Sep, 2018
Currently Suspended
#3052: Jul 13th 2020 at 9:25:13 PM

I've been called an "enterbot" before, ironically enough from someone who openly admits to being a fan of Lily Orchard.

mightymewtron Angry babby from New New York Since: Oct, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Angry babby
#3053: Jul 13th 2020 at 10:57:30 PM

The last part of this entry on Later-Installment Weirdness sounds too negative to me.

  • Jeepers Media. Specifically, Mike Mozart's videos. Starting around 2011, Mike had pretty much stopped doing toy reviews, and instead made increasingly more rant videos, usually against bigger media corporations like Viacom, but he also got very political as well. This continued for about a year, then he began doing new toy review videos, which contained a lot more adult jokes and wordplay than older reviews, in addition to other Jeepers Media folk joining in on the reviews as well. It's also clear that by this point, Mike's mindset went from Doing It for the Art to Money, Dear Boy.

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
PlasmaPower Since: Jan, 2015
#3054: Jul 15th 2020 at 12:08:31 AM

[up]Yea, especially the last sentence.

YMMV.Danny Phantom

  • Ending Aversion: "Phantom Planet" is widely considered among some of the worst cartoon endings ever (at least among hardcore phans) due to a number of reasons, particularly ignoring or rushing many of the show's subplots, placing too much focus on Sam and Danny's relationship, Vlad and Danny undergoing considerably blatant Badass Decay, and Tucker Foley becoming Amity Park's new mayor.

This entry feels like an excuse to complain about the ending. Ending Aversion is when audiences don’t devote themselves to a work because of ending problems. Honestly, I don’t see that being the case with the show, as many people like and still get into it despite its ending.

Thomas fans needed! Come join me in the the show's cleanup thread!
ADrago Since: Dec, 2015
#3055: Jul 15th 2020 at 12:24:01 AM

[up] That example just explains why the ending is bad without explaining how it turns people off from watching the show. Cut.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#3056: Jul 15th 2020 at 4:44:49 AM

We received a complaint about the article WAW Wrestling being defamatory. I cannot speak to that, but I can say that it blatantly violates our rules about creator bashing and drama importation. Is it salvageable?

Edited by Fighteer on Jul 15th 2020 at 7:45:45 AM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#3057: Jul 15th 2020 at 5:03:50 AM

Follow-up post: the screed in question was added by ~daemondanzer in Dec. 2019. They do not appear to have logged in for months, so probably aren't going to show up to defend themselves.

I have edited out the offending content but it may be appropriate to have some information about the demise of the organization if nothing else.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Serac she/her Since: Mar, 2016 Relationship Status: Oh my word! I'm gay!
she/her
#3058: Jul 15th 2020 at 9:09:04 AM

Also, I don't think we need to have a broken link to their website.

GastonRabbit Sounds good on paper (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
#3059: Jul 15th 2020 at 6:12:34 PM

Locking it and its subpages might be a good idea if it isn't cut entirely.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Jul 15th 2020 at 8:13:29 AM

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
PlasmaPower Since: Jan, 2015
#3060: Jul 15th 2020 at 6:17:35 PM

Now that I think about it, isn't the page image Just a Face and a Caption? That might need to be checked out.

Edited by PlasmaPower on Jul 15th 2020 at 10:19:26 AM

Thomas fans needed! Come join me in the the show's cleanup thread!
Primis Since: Nov, 2010
#3061: Jul 15th 2020 at 9:57:09 PM

[up] That only applies to illustrating tropes.

Altris from the Vortex Since: Aug, 2019 Relationship Status: Not caught up in your love affair
#3062: Jul 16th 2020 at 1:37:16 PM

YMMV.Iron Fist 2017. Split into folders for easy viewing:

     Season One 
  • Arc Fatigue:
    • Characters spend several episodes acting skeptical that Danny is who he says he is, to the point where some critics got the impression that the show was actually trying to make the audience question it, despite this making about as much sense as a movie about Batman trying to convince everyone that he's Bruce Wayne!

This just comes off as someone saying this is bad without saying why.

  • Narm:
    • Danny spews so many Koans (bordering on Ice-Cream Koan at times) in his dialogue it goes from supposedly uplifting to laughable pretty quick. Several reviews described him as sounding like a hipster trying to act deep after he vacationed in Hong Kong for a week.

I'm not sure if the "several reviews" part is appropriate here, but I could be wrong.

  • When Claire says "You two need to calm the eff down" and "This is so effed up." It's silly enough that Marvel's Netflix shows avoid the word "fuck" despite being rated MA and using every other swear word, but to draw attention to it to the point that a grown-ass woman talks like a third grader...

Probably could be a good entry if it was explained without the complaining.

  • Ward's bullying of Danny when they were young. Why did he even sit down to play Monopoly if that's how he would act? It's not even like he is a Sore Loser; he just wanted to cram every petty bully cliché under a minute for the sake of the scene. What was supposed to be a serious flashback of painful childhood memory looks like something out of a Saturday morning cartoon.

The entry doesn't explain how it's Narm, just saying it's cliched and not explaining why.

  • They Changed It, Now It Sucks!:
    • Purists expressed disappointment when Scott Buck admitted that the writers came up with "no good reason" for Danny to wear his signature costume in the first season. For some of those purists, their disappointment went From Badto Worse, when soon afterwards in that same interview, Buck listed one complication for Danny (the likelihood of criminals and onlookers recognizing Iron Fist's face) that sounded avoidable by sticking him in a costume. The show eventually does feature the 1948 Iron Fist wearing a similar costume, implying it could still appear.

I think attributing the complaining to "purists" and such is against wiki rules?

  • A lot of fans of the character actually agree with the negative reception of the show, since while it kept the character's ethnicity very little else was kept; besides the costume, Danny also loses a great deal of his skill and power, was significantly more angsty and toxic, and the more interesting aspects of the show were demoted in importance and put Outof Focus seemingly for the sake of being cheaper. The commonly-cited defense that it was made 'for the fans' feels disingenuous when the show is clearly made without any actual interest in the original source.

The last sentence especially raises some eyebrows, but overall sounds like someone saying "this show is bad".

In general, most of these seem like a viewpoint on how the relative scene is bad, but not why.

    Season Two 
  • Ass Pull: Colleen happening to be the great-great x20 grand daughter of some previous Iron Fist and this somehow meaning that she's not only entitled to the Iron Fist but that Danny's entire role in life and the purpose of his years of training, hard work and enduring physical abuse were only so he could give the Iron Fist to Colleen who didn't have to do any of that. Ass Pull in that, needless to say, none of this has any basis in any version of anything even resembling the source material.

Overall sounds like someone just complaining about Colleen.

  • Related to, but parallel to the previous point, is the reason the plot gives for the forced switching of protagonist status from Danny to Colleen. Colleen and the plot really strain themselves telling the audience (and Danny) that Danny could not ever hope to face Davos himself because he's too emotionally invested since Davos is like a brother to him. Being emotionally invested has never stopped Batman from facing Joker, Spider-man from facing Green Goblin, Cloud from facing Sephiroth, etc. This excuse becomes an Ass Pull when you realize virtually every Hero-Villain dynamic is like that.

Delete the last two sentences, maybe?

  • Broken Aesop: One of the key underlying aspects of Iron Fist as a character is that he's one of the few superheroes who EARNED his power. Others are born with them, buy them by using their great wealth to develop super powered gadgets, are chosen, or get them through accident or chance. If winning the Iron Fist was a matter of being born with the right blood, then there would never have been a need for choosing an Iron Fist, the Iron Fist would simply go to the descendants of a single Iron Fist bloodline; but this is not the case, as anyone could be the Iron Fist, if they worked hard enough for it. Danny Rand, far removed from the privileged lifestyle of a billionaire, had to endure hardships the like of which are unknown to most people in the modern world. He had to fight every other contender in K'un-Lun, endure daily beatings and trained every day, all of which was just so he could win the right to face Shou Lao the Dragon. He had to beat a literal dragon with his bare hands to become the Iron Fist. But come Season 2 and we are told that Colleen is now suddenly entitled to being the Iron Fist just because a very distant ancestor happened to be the Iron Fist. What is the lesson then? "Be sure to be born in the right family"?

Comes across as very ...ranty, for lack of a better term. Maybe replace it with something like "the show emphasizes that Danny needs to work hard to be the Iron Fist, but Colleen apparently being owed the title because of her bloodline undercuts this message".

  • Narm: Joy's Face–Heel Turn was considered something of an Ass Pull at the end of the first season, so the second one tries to smooth this over by emphasising how much she loved her father and that she hates Danny for taking him away from her. Unfortunately, this is done by having Joy explaining this over and over and over again. It reaches the point where it comes across more as if the writers have realized how flimsy her motives are and are desperately trying to convince the audience that she has good reasons for turning evil, which only becomes less convincing every time she does it.

I'm leaning on keeping this after cutting the last sentence.

  • Panderingtothe Base: It is very transparent that the decision to suddenly make Colleen an Iron Fist was something the writers lifted directly from some comment section or another after several people half-jokingly suggested that Colleen should be the Iron Fist since they liked her better than Danny, following the reception the first season got.

More complaining. Replace it with something like "A lot of fans wanted someone else to be the Iron Fist after Danny's poor reception."

  • They Wasteda Perfectly Good Plot: Specifically, the main one. The conflict between Danny and Davos has been brewing since the first season and they have years of unresolved issues between them, loving each other as brothers but being in a heated rivalry for the Iron Fist ever since meeting. The stakes keep getting higher when Davos steals the Iron Fist and now the viewer assumes Danny must face Davos without his powers, and with a broken leg, to boot. All of this tension and emotion is sadly wasted and left unresolved when Colleen gets the Iron Fist and resolves the plot by herself. After the point where she gets the Iron Fist, the plot loses all power, stakes or relevancy, since Colleen has no actual connection to Davos and no personal stakes in anything that is happening. Wrapping up the season's plot feels more like a formality, revealing that the actual goal of the season was just to transfer Danny's power over to Colleen.

Just generally sounds like complaining.

  • Unintentionally Unsympathetic: The story just entitling Colleen to the Iron Fist by virtue of existing when literally every single Iron Fist before her had to train for years, defeat dozens of other candidates and beat a literal Dragon with their bare hands, has the unexpected consequence of her appearing a tad bit unsympathetic by the end of it, an opinion held by several of the show's followers. The fact that she immediately and unceremoniously dumps Danny after taking his hard-earned powers doesn't help matters in the slightest. One has to wonder how would modern society look on this same development if only the sexes were reversed, and a female hero had her hard-earned powers taken away by a male side character just because he happens to have the right bloodline.

I'm leaning towards replacing this entirely.

Edited by Altris on Jul 16th 2020 at 1:55:34 AM

So, let's hang an anchor from the sun... also my Tumblr
GoosefromWikipedia (Rule of Three)
#3063: Jul 16th 2020 at 2:31:30 PM

The Audience Alienating Premise entry on the YMMV page of Sinfest comes dangerously close to be pure complaining. (foldered to avoid a Wall of Text)

    Sinfest Audience Alienating Permise 
  • Audience-Alienating Premise:
    • The Patriarchy plot, not only because it's a hard plot to swallow in itself, but mostly because of how suddenly and powerfully it appeared, especially when compared to the strip before. The main issue now seems to be members of the Sisterhood saying blatantly offensive things, like advocating unprovoked violence against men, when compared to their previous characterization of being a small Jerk Sue organization. Because of this, along with the outright demonization of men that would make a Lifetime Movie of the Week writer shake their heads (such as having Xanthe get bombarded with garbage by a small army of background strawmen and then claiming in an attempted Tear Jerker that "male allies don't exist"), male readers who would otherwise be supportive of the storyline feel the strip is actively pushing them away. The strip has even been likened to some of the more clueless social justice blogs from Tumblr in comic strip form.
    • Many fans are also turned off by the fact that the writer tends to handle any and all criticism of the Sisterhood by apparently assuming they're just misogynist jerks, dismissing their (often reasonable) complaints and labeling them as "dudebros" who are really just whining because Monique doesn't shake her ass anymore. We know this because dozens of strips are dedicated specifically to the purpose of taking common complaints about the direction the strip has gone in and having the designated strawmen Slick or Squig say it, probably while crying and probably after having twisted it into something blatantly misogynist. Another form this takes is in having Monique put on magical "patriarchy blocker" glasses that "translate" common criticisms into something easier to dismiss.
      • Made worse that most recently he has been using them as a mouthpiece for an extended attack against the entire trans umbrella, gender nonconformity, & the very idea of womanhood not being tied to birth sex.
    • The irony that he is a middle aged man who uses female characters as proxies to try & speak for women. Often painting women who don't follow his at times regressive views as 'unenlightened' or 'misguided' is among the ironies that for the moment seems lost on him.
    • The original concept to begin with, as used to imply that Christianity rang more true than the other religions (even as characters like the Buddha and the Dragon walked around).
While there might be some valid points in it, it mostly seems to be a rant about the author's views.

Edited by GoosefromWikipedia on Jul 16th 2020 at 2:33:47 AM

PlasmaPower Since: Jan, 2015
#3064: Jul 16th 2020 at 2:34:52 PM

[up]The natter in that is also pretty bad.

Thomas fans needed! Come join me in the the show's cleanup thread!
mightymewtron Angry babby from New New York Since: Oct, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Angry babby
#3065: Jul 16th 2020 at 2:50:02 PM

Shoehorned complaints about Tumblr are never a good sign.

Also that last bullet point confuses me. Are they suggesting any depiction of Hell that relies mostly on Christian ideas (or whatever they're talking about, since as an outsider I have no idea what the original concept was from reading that entry) is an Audience-Alienating Premise? Because a lot of successful works do that.

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#3066: Jul 16th 2020 at 3:14:27 PM

Sinfest has become a pretty awful comic, though, and there is plenty to comment on.

Optimism is a duty.
ATricksterArtist kiby :] from in your house (Not-So-Newbie) Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
kiby :]
#3067: Jul 16th 2020 at 3:45:32 PM

Regardless of the actual quality of the comic, it doesn't justify blatant complaints.

(Don't) take me home.
Primis Since: Nov, 2010
#3068: Jul 16th 2020 at 3:57:18 PM

Considering that the comic is basically just one long Author Filibuster, it's impossible to comment on it without coming across as commenting on the author's views, because they're one and the same.

Edited by Primis on Jul 16th 2020 at 3:57:13 AM

mightymewtron Angry babby from New New York Since: Oct, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Angry babby
#3069: Jul 16th 2020 at 4:09:18 PM

Except an author's controversial behavior outside of the comic doesn't qualify as Audience-Alienating Premise because it has nothing to do with the premise.

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
jandn2014 Very Spooky from somewhere in Connecticut Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Hiding
Very Spooky
#3070: Jul 16th 2020 at 4:23:37 PM

Either way, the example definitely needs to be cut down on- it's far too long currently.

Edited by jandn2014 on Jul 16th 2020 at 7:23:51 AM

back lol
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#3071: Jul 16th 2020 at 4:31:28 PM

"It's an awful comic" doesn't justify bashing — especially of the creator.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#3072: Jul 16th 2020 at 4:31:46 PM

But that's just it he expresses his controversial views through his comic.

Optimism is a duty.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#3073: Jul 16th 2020 at 4:36:27 PM

Doesn't matter. This is TV Tropes, not TV Complaints. Focus on objectivity. If the article can't be kept objective, then it will be sanitized and locked.

Edited by Fighteer on Jul 16th 2020 at 7:36:48 AM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
mightymewtron Angry babby from New New York Since: Oct, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Angry babby
#3074: Jul 16th 2020 at 4:37:31 PM

Audience-Alienating Premise refers to media where the mere concept alienates people before they even engage in the media. I don't think specific plotlines within a work, or the specific way the author executes them, count.

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#3075: Jul 16th 2020 at 4:38:33 PM

[up] That is also correct. AAP is when you're turned off before you've ever seen or heard the work. If you discover it's awful after reading it, that's... well, it's not a trope. It's just life.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

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