Main Playing W Ith A Trope Discussion

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07:32:18 AM Mar 11th 2015
edited by IsaacsLaughing
Suggested new categories for this page:

1. Callback - A trope that was soundly laid to rest is brought back into play.

2. Baton pass - The primary actor of a trope changes. Distinct from being a separate instance in that the primary actor changes and the target does not.

The example I noticed these methods in is the case of Nishio Nishiki from Tokyo Ghoul and sequel, :RE. In the first series, he initiates a Smug Snake trope by drastically overstating his ability while fighting Kaneki, who delivers a Curb-Stomp Battle, which sets in motion Nishiki's development as both a stronger and less conceited character. His kagune is also distinctly snakelike, which can hardly be called a coincidence in TG's dripping-with-symbolism context.

In the sequel, Nishiki has become a solid badass and also a more sensible, even affectionate character. Meanwhile, the CCG picks up the Smug Snake trope by drastically raising Nishiki's threat level and naming him Orochi/Serpent.

It's possible this entanglement of playing with a trope could simply be called zigzagged. I make this suggestion because these I consider these two plays distinct enough that many other clear examples could be found, making them deserving of their own definitions here.
07:50:47 AM Mar 11th 2015
The first looks like a Double Subversion to me. Not sure what the second is.
09:45:27 AM Mar 11th 2015
edited by IsaacsLaughing
The first is not a subversion because the trope DOES happen, but is eventually removed from play and even later is brought back. To note, this play would be not just be a second instance of a trope, either, but would relate to the first instance. It would be an actual callback not just a reuse.

Edited first post with naming suggestions in order to clarify meaning.
04:04:07 PM Mar 15th 2015
Sorry, took a while for what you meant about Double Subversion to sink in. Still isn't what I'm referring to, though. In a Double Subversion, it would first be implied that trope is going to happen, then implied that it won't before it finally does occur. That isn't the same as what I described.
01:14:12 AM Feb 14th 2015
edited by MyTimingIsOff
Luc, I don't care how important you think examples are, that's no excuse for shoehorning. Shoehorned examples confuse people and encourage shoehorning elsewhere. This page is supposed to be a guide, so it's even more important not to shoehorn here than on regular pages. So stop restoring the bad examples.

Not only that, but you haven't given a single reason for why you keep restoring the outdated/wrong definitions for the forms of playing. Gender-Inverted Trope is the correct article, so why do you keep changing it to pothole to Gender Flip, a completely different article which outright says not to confuse it with Gender-Inverted Trope? Why do you insist on bringing up the defunct "plotted a good waste" name (which we abandoned for a reason)?
02:02:13 AM Feb 14th 2015
Also, edit warring it back in is not OK.
12:28:23 AM Feb 16th 2015
1. Providing examples are part of definition. If you don't have examples, you don't have a complete definition, in my experience. That being said, the current version provides enough of an example that, other then perhaps putting it in the format of the rest of the page (and I can see why you didn't do that—to prevent further shoehorning), I have no objections to it.

2. As to "plotted a good waste", IIRC there are a few out of the way pages that refer to that phrase, although that may have changed since last I checked.
11:36:20 PM Jul 9th 2014
What the hell happened? Suddenly, it seems like no trope has a "played with" section anymore?
12:51:44 AM Jul 10th 2014
What happened is that the namespace icons were changed. We are waiting for their reinstallation.
04:51:39 PM Jan 15th 2014
Unparodied ... isn't a TV Tropes page. I don't think we should include it unless there is sufficient support among the community for its existence to justify the page, first.
01:12:19 PM Jun 19th 2013
I want the Gender-Inverted Trope entry to parallel the others, and with The Butler Did It there's the obvious possibility of The Housekeeper Did It (or some such), but Power Glows is straight-up genderless.

Any thoughts?
07:01:23 AM Aug 4th 2012
I'm sorry, what is the "implied" part of the image supposed to be?
01:10:44 PM Jun 19th 2013
A stencil and a spraycan.
11:05:47 PM Dec 22nd 2011
edited by Schwarzen
So if a trope applied to a character but let's say they get over it as the story progresses. What would that be considered as?
06:59:52 AM Aug 4th 2012
"Trope: Played straight with Character at first, but then they get over it as the story progresses."

At least, that's how I'd write it.
02:12:39 AM Sep 21st 2012
I put one example by that description as "eventually defied", but that doesn't automatically apply, it depends.
11:33:58 AM Aug 8th 2011
edited by TippyToeZombie
I kind of think that maybe we could put Weaponized as another way to play with a trope such as when Candace Weaponized Failure Is the Only Option in Phineas and Ferb The Movie: Across the 2nd Dimension

I am the Tippy Toe Zombie I like to Limbo Often I fall on people's heads
12:41:40 PM Jun 12th 2011
edited by RedLunchBox
One thing I'm not suprised is done yet: Tropeception: A trope within a trope. (Ex. Brawl's Great Maze being The Very Definitely Final Dungeon within another The Very Definitely Final Dungeon, Subspace)
01:50:02 PM Sep 6th 2011
That's not even what the word "inception" means.
04:11:52 PM Apr 30th 2011
Shouldn't the main page list all of the tropes that have Playing With page?
09:35:29 PM May 19th 2011
11:24:15 PM Apr 15th 2011
A new playing with, "Gone wrong"
08:47:40 AM Apr 18th 2011
Do elaborate.
05:18:23 PM Apr 14th 2011
By now, my "easy visual reference" contains every Trope Trope on the page except for Untwisted, Necessary Weasel, and They Plotted a Perfectly Good Waste.
10:16:10 PM Mar 15th 2011
Should we turn this into an index? You know, so individual entries for the ways to play with a trope have an index on the bottom saying "Playing with a Trope". Are there technical ramifications to this?
12:15:14 PM Mar 1st 2011
We really don't need to pothole every single occurrence of the word "trope" to the page in question, do we?
01:55:03 PM Feb 2nd 2011
I loved these two examples. Makes trope using very understandable. Shame that is only two examples. :)
03:04:43 PM Feb 2nd 2011
06:13:32 AM Apr 9th 2012
Just make another example?
06:35:37 PM Nov 30th 2010
Is there a word for a trope that is done literally, like an Interface Screw that is caused by actual screws obscuring the screen?
04:46:18 AM Dec 1st 2010
That might be a Visual Pun, if intentional - but unless "Interface Screw" was the standard term when You Don't Know Jack came out, I vote Hilarious in Hindsight.
03:08:29 PM Nov 22nd 2010
Is there a thing called Analyzed Trope if the trope is looked closer, but not deconstructed or Played for Drama?
06:12:51 AM Apr 9th 2012
That is a Discussed Trope
10:07:17 PM Sep 20th 2010
edited by Poochy.EXE
So the list of editing tips includes one that says a trope can't be "partially subverted", which makes sense. But I see that phrase used to refer to instances where a trope is neither played straight nor completely inverted, but rather takes a middle road. What do I change them to?

For example, for a character trope that is Always Female, having a group of them that are all male would be an inversion or subversion (depending on whether or not it plays up the fact that you'd expect them to be female), having the group be all female would be a straight example, but what do you call it when the group has a roughly 50/50 gender split?
04:38:40 AM Sep 21st 2010
Can you give a more specific example?
01:19:52 AM Oct 4th 2010
edited by Poochy.EXE
Erm, perhaps trying to do this by example is only gonna cause more confusion.

Lemme put it this way: You have a group of a character type, but half of them are played straight and the other half are inversions or subversions. What do you call that?
01:42:18 AM Oct 4th 2010
I'd say what you've just describes is either a bunch of individual cases, or a case of Zig-Zagging Trope, depending on the trope and how you look at the implementation.
01:53:00 PM Jun 9th 2010
edited by MarqFJA
Okay, so assume a series where it's not uncommon for using a Super Mode or One-Winged Angel to be accompanied by Power Makes Your Hair Grow. Then a new character comes up, and when they undergo the transformation, s/he appears to avert Power Makes Your Hair Grow... only to later surprise his/her opponent(s) when his/her hair suddenly grows to Rapunzel Hair proportions and ensnares them when they least expected, and s/he explains that Power Makes Your Hair Grow normally does occur for him/her; it's just that s/he has the ability to turn that aspect on and off at will (or s/he can control the actual length of his/her hair), allowing him/her to surprise enemies like s/he did just now.

Now, where does that fall into Playing with a Trope's categories?
09:16:11 PM Jul 28th 2010
notreallyatroper: Zigzagged?
10:10:19 AM Dec 15th 2011
That's definitely zig-zagged.
11:39:02 AM May 8th 2010
edited by
What does "played with" mean on its own, as in "played with in <insert work here>"? I also find "lampshading" a form of playing straight.
01:10:19 AM May 9th 2010
edited by RobinZimm
"Played with" is usually ZigZagged; Lampshading accompanies straight use.
09:06:45 AM May 9th 2010
Lampshading can occur with other means of playing with a trope, such as subversions or inversions, but if it's just said on its own then it can be assumed it's played straight.
11:07:54 PM May 10th 2010
edited by TBeholder
Zig-Zagged usually involves several iterations of inversion and subversion.
When there are other uses (lampshaded-invoked-discussed), it's not that simple, so the choice is whether to lump it into "played with" or to give a list of (usually unnecessary) details.
10:23:48 PM Dec 26th 2010
I think played usally means they're not sure what to file it under.
06:15:45 AM Jun 21st 2012
It's not like it can mean anything else, if you look at this page.
07:15:00 PM Jun 21st 2013
In Police Academy 5: Assignment Miami Beach, there's a scene where the Threatening Shark is swimming toward the beach and everyone on the beach is running away...until the shark swims right up to Crazy Awesome Memetic Badass Tackleberry's gun. Tackleberry says, "You leave the swimming area NOW, Mister!" The shark then swam away. On the page, I used the word tried to describe how the shark was used, but that just doesn't seem sufficient. Is there a better word for this?

Similarly, on the page for Paul Heyman, for Would Hit a Girl, I wrote that he tried, but Madusa kicked his ass several times in 1992. I looked at the PlayingWith/WouldHitAGirl page, and I couldn't find a variation where you had a Big Bad Non-Action Guy facing a Face Action Girl, and like the shark example above, I could only come up with tried.

Thank you very much.
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