Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

I do recall him having some sort of honour, but I can't be sure whether that was actual honour, or because it would make things inconvenient if he tightened his grip on Arachnos any further.

He did send flowers to his sister's funeral, and he forms a brief alliance with the Freedom Phalanx to save the world, but I'm pretty sure that "Vengeance for stealing my kill" isn't a redeeming trait, and he was technically saving the world from being devoured by the local Galactus equivalent.

I'll double check Recluse's page, just in case.

Edit: Well, if he has them, they aren't on his personal page. It's far too scarce.

The most you see of his character seems to be in his personal missions, and in the Patron story arcs. After I finish The Web of Arachnos, I'll scour those for anything redeeming.

edited 22nd Aug '14 10:38:51 PM by ekimmak

Sending flowers to his sister's funeral sounds like an indication that he at least liked her. Is that the case?

I'll be seeing Sin City 2 next Thursday, so mind spoilers please. Don't know if Shaoken wants to see it at any point, but it's not going to be released in Oz until 18 September either.

After doing more digging into The Day of the Triffids and comparing characters and plot points, I think the version of Torrence they're talking about is the 2009 one played by Eddie Izzard. I'll lean keep to him for now based on the summaries, but can someone familiar with that version clarify what he wants with a cure against the Triffids? Is it just about power or does he actually want to save the world from the horde of killer plants?

Some entries on Monster.Digimon badly need rewrites. Now I've only seen the original way back and a bit of the first sequel, but they're inconsistent with those on the work pages, Kurata and Millenniummon's entries need to have the natter cut, there's no real need to have two entries for Myotismon (there at least; the work pages is a different matter), and a lot of the entries need to excise the "OMG, this guy is bad but Kurata is the worst Complete Monster EVAR!" This trope is not a contest, and it's not a badge of honor either. The write-ups should just state the facts about the characters without pointless positional comparitives to one-up each other.

Here are several new examples, mostly literature. Out of 7 examples, I'll say cut to 3, keep to 2, and 2 I'm unsure of.

• Complete Monster: Several, but Dr. John Biersfield Marston of "The House of Horror" is the runaway winner. When his son, crippled in an accident, is Driven to Suicide by his fiancee deciding to break off the engagement due to being unable to cope with his injuries, Dr. Marston proceeds to kidnap and surgically mutilate her (by removing the bones from her arms and legs, among other things) and keep her in a basement in his house. This Disproportionate Retribution would be bad enough, but he then goes on to kidnap and mutilate thirteen other girls who did nothing but have the misfortune to resemble the fiancee! A fourteenth girl is saved (and de Grandin offers to perform the surgery to correct the damage done to her face), but the others can only be mercy killed. Interestingly, he's one of Jules de Grandin's few non-supernatural adversaries.

Very strong keep, although it'd be interesting to hear who the other contenders from this author's works are.

• Complete Monster: In the world of Skullgirls, there are plenty to choose from:
  • Brain Drain, who kidnaps and forcibly transforms innocent girls (such as Carol, a.k.a. Painwheel) into bloodthirsty monsters, which he then brainwashes to keep in line. The fact Painwheel is the only known Super-Soldier from Lab Zero (as opposed to Lab Eight's colorful Ragtag Bunch of Misfits) may lead to some Fridge Horror: that Brain Drain's ruthlessness has killed off all of his other experiments. Even if there ARE other experiments left... Do we REALLY want to know what they look like?!?!
  • Black Dahlia, who dismembered Ms. Fortune, killed the Fishbone gang, killed the Contiellos (and everyone at their party, including sadistically shooting Sienna/Squigly in the head) and many other horrific deeds. The fact that she's rather old and has been killing for a long time means one probably couldn't even put a number on her crimes.
  • Lorenzo Medici is implied to be even older than Black Dahlia, thanks to the Mafia's long-standing possession of the Life Gem — so old that no one can remember how long he's been in charge. Ordering the deaths of the entire Contiello family is not even remotely the worst of his atrocities, just one of the most recent; in this particular case he sent an incredibly nasty message about the mob's Code Of Silence by arranging to have the corpses' mouths sewn shut (doubly cruel, given that in life they were a family of opera singers). He was also most likely responsible for the Medici family's involvement in the lucrative slave trade, meaning the onus for Patricia/Peacock's horrific mutilation (blinding and near death by dismemberment) ultimately rests on him.

Emphasis mine. Now anyone can fill in the blanks, but there's way too much Fridge Horror in there. Did they or didn't they commit these crimes, and if they did, is it onscreen enough?

• Complete Monster - Erra fits this bill. She doesn't deny it when Kate calls her a psychopath (although she has to look up what the word means). When her children annoy her she kills them and pilots their undead bodies. She once "threw a hissyfit and blew up Bablyon", enjoys scaring crowds, just cause, and she tells Kate that because she and Roland are immortal, one human death doesn't mean anything to them so Kate shouldn't whine about Roland killing her mother. Ouch.

There's very little info on this series out there. Roland and Erra are two immortals, but I can't discern if they care for each other or not. She carries out hits for him, he visits her funeral later on. Blowing up Babylon seems to be Offstage Villainy, and scaring crowds is the "Jaywalking" in Arson, Murder, and Jaywalking (unless it's something like blowing them up, of course).

• Complete Monster: Jack Slash, full stop. The man's spent his life murdering his way across the country, and his personal bodycount has to be in the hundreds at least. That's not to mention everything he leads the Slaughterhouse Nine in doing, like attacking a hospital and targeting the maternity ward first. He eventually embraces his role as the catalyst for the end of the world because he wants to be remembered for generations as one of history's greatest monsters.

Keep.

• Complete Monster: The Swordsmen of the Orichalcos are this for various reasons.
  • Raphael: It's okay that you should decide that the ancient Pharaoh is evil. It's ANOTHER idea to just start stalking a ten year old girl who has NO IDEA who you are or about your past. He consistently believes that May is his savior from ten years ago, and is also coupled with memories of a past life. Combined with the Orichalcos, and you have a stalker who just a) will not go away, b) go after little girls and c) use a knife and threaten violence on them.
  • Alister: For someone who wants to STOP war after losing his brother, he doesn't give a damn about hurting kids. He threatened to hurt Max if May didn't return the Winged Dragon of Ra, and was the one who fought Mokuba in an Orichalcos Duel. In the Orichalcos Duel, he launched an attack from a monster that had 11,000 attack points that attacks with lasers, missiles and cannons. He lost, thank goodness, but it still has an affect on the main characters.
  • Valon: He doesn't get into action a lot, but he can get pissed off easily. He think it's okay to whale on a ten year old girl who fought his love interest. This involves him punching her in the gut and ribs, pinning her to a wall, choking her, throwing her to the wall and just making sure that she should DIE.

Horrible people as always, but they all seem to fail on redeeming traits. #1 sounds too insane to qualify and seems to have an Even Evil Has Standards moment (?), #2 is a Well-Intentioned Extremist, and #3 wants to Avenge the Villain.

• Complete Monster: Draco. He conquers in the name of God, but he's really just a butcher and a rapist.

Cut for Even Evil Has Standards.

• Attempted Rape: Draco almost rapes Arpazia a second time, but her complete refusal to respond reminds him of a corpse and he's too disgusted to continue.

• Complete Monster: Unlike his compatriot and co-conspirator Prince Dakkar aka Captain Nemo, Nana Sahib does not show a hint of remorse for letting his troops murder hundreds of unarmed civilians. He is perfectly able to kill in cold blood and uses his brother's death to his own profit, usurping his identity to escape investigation.

Cut for redeeming trait. Incidentally one of Jules Verne's novels.

• Freudian Excuse: Both Nana Sahib and Colonel Munro, having each lost the woman they loved at the hands of the other.

edited 23rd Aug '14 8:55:59 AM by Morgenthaler

Alright, stop me if we discussed this, but I've been thinking about that old show Are You Afraid of the Dark?, and I've thought about two possible villains to discuss, one is the vampire, who was acting under the name Margot. from Tale of the Night shift, who I'll discuss now, and the other is the Silver Sight from the three parter, who I'll discuss later.

As for "Margot", here's a write up.

Who is he and what has he done ?

"Margot" is an ancient vampire posing as a teenage girl working as a new nurse on the night shift at a hospital. Acting friendly and cheerful towards everyone "she" meets, the vampire feeds off of patients and staff at the hospital, one of his victims being a boy in a wheel chair. When the episodes protagonist Amanda and her friend Colin are the last two left, he and his minions stalk them relentlessly, he picked a hospital because it's like a candy shop for vampires. When Amanda's newly turned friend Felix tries to help them, Margot attacks him too. In the episodes climax, while chasing Amanda, he taunts her saying he is far too good a hunter, and when he catches up to her, he lifts her from the hospital roof, intending to drop her and lick up what's left, before deciding to try the old fashioned way to kill her.

Does he have redeeming qualities or a Freudian Excuse ?

None. In fact the only reason I don't consider him a Generic Doomsday Villain is because he expresses real sadism and has a faux affably evil personality when posing as a teenage girl.

I think I have enough yes votes to do a write up on Rat King:

• Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (2012): This continuity’s Rat King, Dr. Victor Falco, started off as just a smug Mad Scientist. The Turtles first meet him while investigating the disappearance another scientist and Falco seems very friendly, helpful and concerned with his colleague's well being. However it is soon revealed that Falco himself kidnapped his colleague, mutating him into a gorilla creature and is using his mutated DNA to create a serum that gives himself Psychic Powers. After his initial defeat by the Turtles, Falco loses his job and continues his experiments on rats. An accident leaves him blind and deformed, but also grants him the ability to control rats. Falco becomes disgusted with humanity, adopts the name Rat King and seeks to have his rats take over the city by driving the humans away. Rat King also mind rapes Splinter several times, in order to break his spirit and turn him into his slave. After another defeat, Rat King later returns again, kidnaps several civilians, including a couple of teenagers and a small girl and plans to experiment on them, trying to turn them into human rat hybrids. However his first attempt results in a creature that is deformed, immobile and in constant pain, but that does not deter him from continuing his experiments. Also despite his supposed kinship with his rats, he has no problem experimenting on them and is willing sacrifice them to gain an advantage over one of his enemies.

edited 23rd Aug '14 10:58:29 AM by TheOverlord

Okay, so if we are planning on going forward with the whole idea of having a CM page for the Creepypasta antagonists, then I think that Uncle Johnny, Sonic from Sonic.Exe, and the Tails Doll should be on the list. I am also completely undoing my riteup and proposal for the Rake, because he might be too ambiguous in order to qualify for this trope, and that there isn't really a universally-accepted idea on him either. Who I will propose, however, will be the nameless serial killer from Squidward's Suicide.

Who is he

We never find out what his name is, nor do we ever find out anything about him. All we know is that he was a serial killer who targeted children, respectively. When the episode of Sponge Bob was being played on the computer, we are shown the grizzly image of the serial killer slowly butchering and killing three children all in the exact same way. We later discover that the episode had been tampered with, but there isn't any information regarding the children, nor their killer. It is presumed that he escaped at the ends and was never caught.

Heinous in-story

Definitely.

Conclusion

I'd say he counts.

Margot.
Here's the ep. Man, I remember that one. No way something like that could air today (a graphic Man on Fire, even if the "man" is a vampire?).

As for Digimon, feel free to make edits here.

edited 23rd Aug '14 10:28:46 AM by ACW

From what I'm reading, Lord Recluse pretty much removes all his formerly redeeming qualities.

For Day of the triffids I haven't seen much of the 2009 version, but I think he mainly wants to destroy the triffids for power and self preservation.

For the Digimon page...I think we have all the keeps we need, but these are in terrible need of rewrites. May need to cut Millenniummon.

Seabury Quinn's example sounds a strong keep. Let's get him on the main page.

Skullgirls...not sure. They all have listed obvious crimes, so there's...that.

I've looked up info Kate Daniels....Erra seems a keep on things. She doesn't seem to care for her family at all.

Jack Slash...didn't Rmctagg say he'd provide a new writeup a long time back? Cut the others Morgen listed.

Beast: I'd sagree on keeping Margot. The vampire is far too sadistic for a kids' show and has some very frightening crimes in mentally enslaving everyone and attempting genuine murder several times.

@The Overlord: Rat King's writeup. Good job.

@Austin DR: We don't know much about him, but we know enough about him to tell that he's a psychopath. I'll say for now. Also, I'd like to do an effortpost on the Tails Doll and Red to better explain who they are for the people who don't know.

The Tails Doll

Who is he?

The Tails Doll is an urban legend creepypasta that got its start after a rumor started about Sonic R. Starting out as a nameless racer found in Sonic R, allegedly, if someone performs the Tails Doll curse to summon the doll, the Tails Doll will come to life and come to you. This is where the Monster part comes in.

What has he done?

Since this is Creepypasta, and anyone can tell a story, his actions as various, but he can be summed up as thus: a force in the game Sonic R, who, if provoked with a curse, will come out of the game. Most of the Tails Doll's actions involve the murder of the one who initiated the curse, or the enslavement of their soul. I can't even begin to list how many creepypastas I've seen that involve the Tails Doll killing the family and friends of the victim as well, leaving them traumatized wrecks and driving them to suicide. It drives its victims to paranoia in the form of bloodied notes and orange stuffing, and with the message and song "Can You Feel The Sunshine? It occasionally waltzes in, even if it wasn't summoned with the curse, and kills its victims ultimately for fun.

Is he heinous by the standards of Creepypasta?

Unlike the Rake or Slenderman, there is nothing inconsistent or enigmatic about its character. It's a bloodthirsty, sadistic serial killer of a doll in the Creepypasta universe, it's treated as a force of evil in Sonic R, and Ascended Fanon made it into a villain similar to the likes of its portrayal in the Archie Comics. Unlike Sonic.EXE, the Tails Doll rarely goes for the characters in the actualy video game and goes for people in the real world. It's depicted as nothing less than a sadistic force of pure evil.

Any Freudian Excuse or any other mitigating factors?

None. Creepypasta villains are generally mysterious in their nature, but there's no disguising the Tails Doll's actions. The worst we have is the Draco in Leather Pants treatment or Alternative Character Interpretation, which does not disqualify him.

Final verdict?

He's essentially a supernatural serial killer, who, if summoned (or maybe not) will murder you or your family, drive you to paranoia, or enslave you. His general character is always among those lines, no matter what the Creepypasta or story featuring him involves. Anything that portrays him as sympathetic is the Leather Pants treatment.

Red

Who is he?

Red is the Big Bad of the NES Godzilla creepypasta. He's a demon inside the game that murders everything in sight and torments the player, Zach.

What has he done?

He's a fully sentient demon that, when Zach learns of his existence, starts to kill everything inside the game and mentally torments Zach by stating that he killed his girlfriend and is now torturing her soul. He murders the angelic figure aiding Zach, and during the final battle, kills everyone helping Zach and paralyzes him, leaving him in an And I Must Scream fate. Red essentially forces Zach to play the game and try to beat him or else he'll kill him, so he's not just limited to the game and goes to try and murder people beyond the fourth wall.

Any mitigating factors?

None. Unlike Slendy and like the Tails Doll or Sonic.EXE, there's no mistaking him as anything less than pure evil.

Final verdict?

I think he might be a firm contender.

Now, sorry for arriving on such short notice and bringing up a topic I assume is dead, but I've kind of been wrapped up with family issues. I'm back now, though.

edited 23rd Aug '14 10:32:54 AM by Scraggle

Rat King writeup looks good; I'd just change the first sentence to the following:

• Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (2012): This continuity’s Rat King, Dr. Victor Falco, started off as just a smug Mad Scientist.

I have a new proposal as well, from the Hammer Horror film Vampire Circus

The film begins with a group of villagers about to lay siege to the home of Count Mitterhaus, a reclusive noble rumored to be a vampire. The rumors prove true as Mitterhaus has the wife of one of the village leaders bring him children that Mitterhaus drains. The villagers catch Mitterhaus with the woman before Mitterhaus proceeds to slaughter most of the attackers until they subdue and stake him. As he dies, Mitterhaus vows he'll have the lives of their children to bring him back to life.

Instructing his mistress Anna to seek out his cousin Emil, Mitterhaus's spirit resurfaces 16 years later when Anna and Emil have formed 'The Circus of the Night.,' led by Anna, Emil and Mitterhaus's twin, teenaged vampire children Heinrich and Helga. Under mitterhaus's plan, the circus lures in and proceeds to murder the village's children, returning Mitterhaus slowly to life.

When he's finally revived, Mitterhaus shows zero concern for the lives of Anna or his own kids who are now dead (Anna was killed in a moment of conscience when she tried to protect her own daughter from Emil, who killed her on the spot).

Emil is the more proactive of the vampire duo, but he seems to have legitimate loyalty to the Count as he's going through an awful lot of trouble to bring him back to life. A further issue is that Mitterhaus's the one with the plan the vampires are all following and even if he's physically dead, his spirit is guiding the bad guys all through. In the end, he has a huge bodycount as well, most of it children.

Okay done.

I am also going to say to "Margot" and Mitterhaus.

ACW did you ever fix up Yoh Xi-Hung?

I'll also do my Warren T. Rat writeup soon, as well as a new one for Cluny the Scourge, and look at Digimon. My SCP examples will follow shortly. I'll also give a yes to the Creepypasta examples. We can put them on Web Original.

edited 23rd Aug '14 11:24:19 AM by Lightysnake

Hearing about An American Tail, a firm, firm to Warren.

Mind if I ask the reasoning?

Oh, and also: I'll rewrite the Thriller: A cruel Picture example, along with Heroes Shed No Tears Vietnamese Colonel. Maybe it's me, but I can't even remember a Freudian Excuse being mentioned, and it doesn't begin to justify his actions of people who have nothing to do with the French. He's just a dick.

And there's also Uncle Johnny from the Creepypasta entitled "Play With Me," possibly Randy from "Jeff the Killer," and the example that Klavice gave a few pages ago.

I'm to Warren. He's a cad, that's true, but I don't remember him doing much to warrant a CM status.

Also, about the Creepypasta examples, what was our final verdict on Randy ? I still give him a and have a rough entry for him, but I don't think I'll write it up until we reach a decision.

I would advise you to read the discussion. The keeper for a lot of people was Warren attempting to burn everyone alive, which is a remarkably large body count

May I ask how this isn't worthy?

I've decided to give a Warren. The thing about burning a large number of people down is something that makes me feel a little better about including him, although I won't be upset if gets outvoted either.

Yoh's been submitted.
Sin City: Slight for Roark, but a for Ava.

BTW, someone made tweaks to Jr's entry at Sin City. Should've been brought here first, but I don't disagree with the changes...

edited 23rd Aug '14 1:34:44 PM by ACW

Warren just doesn't scream CM to me. It's never above the line of standard animated villainy villainy, and he was rather comedic too, if I remember correctly.

And I'm ultimately handing out a to all previously mentioned CP examples.

edited 23rd Aug '14 1:57:05 PM by Scraggle

Except Lightysnake explained that his humor didn't detract from his villainy (that and I think he also said that Warren tried to portray himself as being a sophisticated cat, but that ultimately doesn't work in his favor), and I mean, seriously, burning a large number of people just for spite isn't heinous enough? Really, tell me what qualifies as being heinously evil and what doesn't.

edited 23rd Aug '14 1:57:26 PM by AustinDR

I honestly just don't think Warren fits the cut. You've known me to be rather strict when it comes to who I consider and who I don't consider CM's, Austin. Comparing him to other villains from Don Bluth movies, like Jenner, who tried to murder nearly every named major character in the movie and got away with two, and from the series proper, like Mr. Grasping who was effectively a racist Bad Boss who ruled through fear, enforced police brutality, and tried to turn an Indian home and the denizens "into a burial ground."

edited 23rd Aug '14 2:05:02 PM by Scraggle

I know. I'm just trying to listen to both sides of the argument.

Anyway, have you thought up on the write-ups for Red and TD?

edited 23rd Aug '14 2:10:24 PM by AustinDR

I forgot about that and this movie having sequels. For the last time, I'm going to change my vote to on Warren.

edited 23rd Aug '14 2:08:21 PM by VeryMelon