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Kyon: Big Damn Hero
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Kyon: Big Damn Hero:

 13601 Jbstormburst, Tue, 22nd Jan '13 5:39:28 PM Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
[up]I actually was referring to the Yakuza, but the matter is that it doesn't have to be world-shaking to be evil or a cartel. Besides, the Yakuza seem disarming at first, but that's only until you hear of their influence in the Asian sex trade, among other things. Of course, those really only apply to the worst groups, but there's a reason why they've only been recently called "boryokudan."

Admittedly, though, the Family counts, too, so I wouldn't say it's unfulfilled even if my logic is a bit skeevy (speaking of that, do the light novels ever say anything of Kyouko's bosses?).

[up][up]Hilarious in Hindsight doesn't give off the right tone to me. Maybe if it was less Rule of Funny related and more like Laser-Guided Karma in it's foreboding... And yeah, Tokyo would be totally cool, and if we're talking N.G.O. Superpower, my vote is for Mithril.

edited 22nd Jan '13 5:45:41 PM by Jbstormburst

 13602 Eamil, Tue, 22nd Jan '13 8:58:01 PM from Somewhere over there. Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
[up]I was thinking more along the lines of the Illuminati or the Assassin's Creed version of the Templars. The Family is smaller-scale but being connected to the supernatural may make up for that. (I'm positive there are examples of evil global or supernatural organizations in the "real world" in anime and manga that would've inspired Kyon's daydreams along those lines, I'm just having trouble naming any off the top of my head so I went with the next obvious equivalents I could think of.)

Either way, my point is his monologue was pointing out that his long list of things including "evil syndicates" were fake - he wasn't thinking of something as grounded in reality as organized crime. tongue

edited 22nd Jan '13 9:02:11 PM by Eamil

 13603 Jbstormburst, Wed, 23rd Jan '13 5:31:20 AM Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
To counter-balance that point, isn't organized crime to most people somethiong you usually only read about, not something in which you're thrustr full throttle into and you don't mind it?

 13604 Eamil, Wed, 23rd Jan '13 7:51:28 AM from Somewhere over there. Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
That doesn't change the fact that organized crime is a real thing that exists. (<_<) Again, he said that it took him a long time to admit to himself that "aliens, time travelers, espers, evil syndicates" etc. etc. "were also fake." Yes, there's a lot of dramatizations of organized crime, but if he was daydreaming about fighting against Yakuza, becoming a police investigator isn't exactly an unrealistic dream.

 13605 Mad Kitsu, Thu, 24th Jan '13 5:33:19 AM from Pursuiting a Trope-tan..
The Kitsune of Lunacy
@ Future Me Scares Me vs. Other Me Annoys Me vs. I Hate Past Me: Why not opt for two of these tropes or even all three?*

edited 24th Jan '13 5:38:50 AM by MadKitsu

My mission: to gather all of the Trope-tans and make New Tropeia a tropey place.
 13606 Filraen, Thu, 24th Jan '13 7:04:18 AM from Monstro Town
Re. Other Me Annoys Me :

I retract my case on Other Me Annoys Me because of the how the duplicated is presented:

The alternate version may be a thinly veiled caricature that exaggerates negative qualities or emphasizes neutral or even positive traits in ways the original dislikes, or invents traits whole cloth that are highly out of character.

Kyon's behaviour doesn't change when time traveling so this doedn't apply.


Re. Time Travel or not on Re-2:

It looked they group could have time traveled to Hinamizawa on Re-2 because there weren't time marks and because this piece on Haruhi's PoV section.

Probably she should have followed Mikuru's instructions, but the thought that they might actually not just be traveling through space, but time had excited Haruhi too much. So she kept her eyes opened and....

However this is flat out denied by Kyon when introducing himself and the Brigade his aunts.

"Ah ... so...." Kyon hesitated for a minute, then shrugged, as though realizing that he was trying to postpone the inevitable, and said, "We time traveled to get here. Well, Sasaki did — the rest of us only traveled through space, really. And ... maybe Kuyou?" The last he said uncertainly, looking to Kuyou curiously.

So no, there isn't Time Travel when Mikuru carried the brigade to Hinamizawa on Re-2.

edited 24th Jan '13 7:06:02 AM by Filraen

 13607 Marq FJA, Thu, 24th Jan '13 8:02:02 AM from Saudi Arabia Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
O' Allah, save Egypt
Well, it's obviously using the same method/technology that Mikuru and her faction use for Time Travel, and even travelling a nanosecond into the future counts as Time Travel; that's how Negi Springfield applies Time Travel into his fight versus Chao in Mahou Sensei Negima! to simulate teleportation.
Ash-shaʻb yurīd isqāṭ ḥukm al-ʻaskar
 13608 Filraen, Thu, 24th Jan '13 9:48:06 AM from Monstro Town
In that case you're splitting hairs. Anyway, if there wasn't any notable time difference to Kyon then the group didn't leave Nishinomiya on Saturday, and that was the impotant part for the timeline.

 13609 Jbstormburst, Thu, 24th Jan '13 10:11:59 AM Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
...To do so would have meant that the TPDD can be set as a teleporter. I can see some interesting possibilities if Kyon could get one on his own or fashion a mechanism similar to it through Yuki.

...I know this sounds dumb when you think of Yuki's capabilities, but could that be what Yuki is working on? Making a re-production of the TPDD?

 13610 Filraen, Thu, 24th Jan '13 10:55:04 AM from Monstro Town
You mean what she was working on the computer in Re-2, keeping it from Kyon's view? I thought it was Snow Verses, pre-compilation.

edited 24th Jan '13 10:55:23 AM by Filraen

 13611 Mad Kitsu, Thu, 24th Jan '13 11:08:25 AM from Pursuiting a Trope-tan..
The Kitsune of Lunacy
[up][up]: Wait a minute. Are you implying that Mikuru can learn Teleportation as well?*

Hold on. Since Kanae's power is dimensional sliding, does that mean that she could eventually learn to slide between different moments in time(time is a dimension, after all)?

...does this mean that Kanae's power has a lot to do with how time travel works in the future? I mean, between her and that kid that invented time travel, I could see how that would be important...

edited 24th Jan '13 11:10:56 AM by MadKitsu

My mission: to gather all of the Trope-tans and make New Tropeia a tropey place.
 13612 Filraen, Thu, 24th Jan '13 11:17:02 AM from Monstro Town
Mikuru time travels by using a tool (the TPDD) which needs authorization to use. The teleport is just a requirement of the use of Time Travel technology (as mentioned in-fic: just to place corectly in the right place of Earth's orbit).

Finally, there are no hints of Mikuru's time travel and Kanae physical teleportation being similarnote .

 13613 Jbstormburst, Thu, 24th Jan '13 4:37:16 PM Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
[up][up][up]Snow Verse beng made at this moment in canon is still considered WMG if I remember right. But yeah, you got most of the rest of it.

edited 24th Jan '13 4:39:49 PM by Jbstormburst

 13614 Filraen, Thu, 24th Jan '13 5:31:04 PM from Monstro Town
[up] That's the reason I worded it as "I thought it was..." instead of a confirmation.
@Jbstormburst:

(...) and if we're talking N.G.O. Superpower, my vote is for Mithril.

For some reason I can totally picture Yuki asking FMP cast if they would like to know how "Black Technology" works almost in the same tone she would offer a cup of tea. IMO, I would be a nice Mass "Oh, Crap!" reaction [lol].


Re. timeline.

I thought we already agreed that the Brigade left Nishinomiya on Friday and arrived to Hinamizawa almost at the same time. What changed?


Re. TPDD.

[up][up]: Wait a minute. Are you implying that Mikuru can learn Teleportation as well?

Mikuru always was capable of teleportation (Time Travel to equal temporal coordinates). The problem is she needs an explicit authorization for each jump. That's one of the reasons I would like that her superiors would grant Mikuru with more freedom of action, at least enough to impose little tasks on her near future or past selves and obtain free-to-use teleportation.

I wonder why I just got an Imagine Spot about Mikuru and Kanae playing the most over-the-top game of tag ever within Yuki's Pocket Dimension as a training.

About Kanae, since a long time ago I have this theory that "Kanae's sliding, as a spacetime warping technique, can be used as a time-traveling method" and it's even possible that the TPDD could be in fact a technology derived from Yuki's observations of Kanae's powers.


Random topic.

Just an old question: How do you think Hanyuu will react to Kyon's Not So Imaginary Friends aka Achakura and Chuou?

For some reason the first thing that comes to mind is something along the lines of:
Hanyuu : Can you see them, Rika? Kyon-kun somehow has two goddesses helping him!
Ryouko : Actually, for myself, I'd prefer the term humanoid interface. How about you Chuou-chan?
Kuyou : Girlfriend.

edited 25th Jan '13 9:36:54 AM by Specular

"And I'd learned long before that if you can't do the impossible, you have to try the improbable." — Max Hardberger
 13616 Filraen, Sat, 26th Jan '13 6:00:08 AM from Monstro Town
My headcanon considers Kanae's mental sliding and physical teleport as two different powers of her so I don't see how Kanae's teleport would have a time travel element.

However, you can play it in reverse: TPDD technology may use may have the base in study of Kanae's teleport but only for the teleport part of time travel.

Tag match with people who can teleport? Sounds fun. And now that I think of it it may be good parctice.
I think the theory of Kanae being able to time travel is based on some theories that time itself is a dimension. If Kanae can slide between dimensions, she might be able to leave and re-enter the time stream at a different point.

The descriptions of how the Time Plane Destruction Device and Kanae's sliding work do seem to be different, though.
 
 13618 Mad Kitsu, Sun, 27th Jan '13 11:04:46 AM from Pursuiting a Trope-tan..
The Kitsune of Lunacy
@ Specular: What you have just imagined with Hanyuu, Achakura, and Kuyou... Why does Kuyou's line in it remind me of Belldandy from Oh! My Goddess?
My mission: to gather all of the Trope-tans and make New Tropeia a tropey place.
@Filraen:

Tag match with people who can teleport? Sounds fun. And now that I think of it it may be good practice.

What would you say of the SOS Brigade playing something like "zombie tag" while allowing the use of their powers? They could need to put one or two handicap on Yuki though.


@thedarkfreak:

That's true, but I think Kanae's sliding and TPDD could be somewhat equivalent to the relation between a classical musical instrument and its electronic counterpart (respectively). Both of them fulfill more or less the same function but the underlying mechanisms and operating requirements of one of them is essentially different from the other's.


@Mad Kitsu:

Probably it was Kuyou's nonchalance. IIRC, from time to time Belldandy said or asked very easy-to-misconstrue things while keeping a perfect Yamato Nadeshiko demeanor.

Thinking of Ah! My Goddess, I got the mental picture of Kyon owning a Cool Bike with a Cool Sidecar. Probably because I can totally see Kyon and Haruhi pulling off a stunt like this one or this one (TK and gravity manipulation optional but encouraged).

For some reason I also visualize Yuuto opposing the idea. As a Badass Driver maybe he would prefer Kyon following his steps instead of becoming a Badass Biker tongue.

edited 28th Jan '13 11:38:11 AM by Specular

"And I'd learned long before that if you can't do the impossible, you have to try the improbable." — Max Hardberger
 13620 Filraen, Mon, 28th Jan '13 6:39:15 PM from Monstro Town
What would you say of the SOS Brigade playing something like "zombie tag" while allowing the use of their powers? They could need to put one or two handicap on Yuki though.

Now I'm reminded of Haruhi-chan:

(talking about the upcoming game of tag)
Yuki: Diffculty setting?
Mikuru: What difficulty, Yuki-chan?
Yuki: My difficulty setting.

Thinking of Ah! My Goddess, I got the mental picture of Kyon owning a Cool Bike with a Cool Sidecar. Probably because I can totally see Kyon and Haruhi pulling off a stunt like this one or this one (TK and gravity manipulation optional but encouraged).

I can totally see it.

edited 28th Jan '13 6:42:00 PM by Filraen

 13621 Grahf, Mon, 28th Jan '13 9:14:04 PM from Nowhere in Particular Relationship Status: Non-Canon
Saint of Asakuraism
You know, with gravity manipulation I think that somewhat improbable revenuers are only scratching the surface. I humbly submit:

As ridiculous as that is, tell me that you wouldn't love reading every word of it. Not to mention the obvious reactions that he'd get from any onlookers, especially Haruhi.
 13622 Filraen, Tue, 29th Jan '13 5:57:11 PM from Monstro Town
About the video: Is gravity optional around here? note 

edited 29th Jan '13 5:58:12 PM by Filraen

[up][up] Actually, I'd be more interested in Kyon's reaction after such stunt. I picture an Ass Kicking Pose/Unflinching Walk followed for a quick checkup for any missing limb, broken bones, burned skin/clothes/hair, lose of hearing, etc. and if everything is OK, a quick thanks to heavens for being in one piece and then going back to business.

I wonder if there is a trope for "Post Badassitude Wimpiness", I mean something along the lines of a character clearing a horrible Death Course after almost dying a couple dozens of times and giving an amazing display of courage, skill and cleverness, only for moment to be dispelled by said character revealing how damn scared he or she was, breaking into tears or simply asking a friend if the danger is gone to promptly pass out. IOW, something like "now I have the opportunity to show fear about it and I'm so taking it".

BTW, I forgot about this but according to Wikipedia Kyon could get a "ordinary motorcycle license" (普通二輪免許)—-which means a machine with an engine displacement up to 400cc—-before turning 18 as it's the case of an "ordinary license" (普通免許) for cars. In other words, IMO Kyon has an excuse for getting a Cool Bike.

I know very little about motorcycles but an engine displacement of 400cc sounds like a lot to me even if it's apparently considered pretty light-weight. For example a quick google search suggested that a Kawasaki Ninja 250R, a (pricey) 249cc model, can reach 95 mph (153 kph). Most likely Kyon would choose a "custom" model in this scenario, though.


Not so random picture.

I'm not really sure because of the drawing style but I think this chapter cover from the manga depicts Mikuru in a old-timey biker attire while riding an equally old-looking model of a very nice Cool Bike.


[up]
About the video: Is gravity optional around here?

Well, if that WMG about Kuyou is true, then it's kind of natural that Kyon will get some measure of mileage as far as "gravity" is concerned tongue.


Very random thought.

For some reason I got the idea that kbdh!Haruhi would make an excellent astronaut (I blame Discovery Channel and its catchy song for this*). Crazy smart, resourceful, works well under pressure (as long as the situation doesn't involve an injured or angry Kyon), great physical condition and her Mind over Matter powers would make a lot of equipment and machinery redundant, particularly the ones required for working during an space walk. Now if Kanae could teleport up and down into a spacecraft or pressurised module traveling at orbital speeds then it would make resupplying a whole lot easier.

It makes me wonder if Kyon's equipment could double as a space suit if a helmet is added to the equation. The skinsuit could be programmed to hold the body together against its own pressure just like the idea behind of the space activity suit and the Deflector Shields of the coat could offer a level protection similar to a suit designed for extra-vehicular activity.

I also have a tropes question. What would say about this?:
Latex Space Suit: Played with. Kyon's "skinsuit" looks like black Body Paint when activated, thus having the "form fitting" requirements down pat, but it's designed to be activated or deactivated without any need of removing whatever other clothes he could be wearing at the moment, so it's unlikely that it'll play any fanservice role whatsoever.

edited 30th Jan '13 9:38:31 AM by Specular

"And I'd learned long before that if you can't do the impossible, you have to try the improbable." — Max Hardberger
 13624 Filraen, Thu, 31st Jan '13 4:20:30 AM from Monstro Town
Re. Cool Bike:

Idea! But I need a good closure, hmmm....

Re. Latex Space Suit:

I think not, As the skinsuit isn't a spacesuit to begin with.
 13625 Marq FJA, Thu, 31st Jan '13 4:59:08 AM from Saudi Arabia Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
O' Allah, save Egypt
It doesn't have to be a spacesuit to be a Latex Space Suit. Biohazard suits and even special interface bodysuits like Evangelion's plugsuits qualify just fine, as along as they are latex-like body-hugging ones.
Ash-shaʻb yurīd isqāṭ ḥukm al-ʻaskar
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