Schwarzesmarken

A decent watch so far. Anyone else giving this a whirl?

I noticed that Irisdina doesn't think much about what others say about her. She just moves forward and does her thing, which should be for the greater good of East Germany. Coolio.

Yeah, I'm watching this as well. A bit sad that my favorite anime blog didn't decide to cover this (even though they did cover Muv Luv Alternative Total Eclipse back in 2012), but having a discussion thread here is better than nothing, I suppose.

Anyway, on to the most recent episode (4 as of this post)...

So the titular "Black Marks" represent East Germany in a joint UN-Warsaw Pact operation to establish a beachhead in Gdansk so that East Germany can have more time to fortify against the BETA. But the Black Marks' tactic of fighting the BETA up close doesn't impress the Western Allies, the latter having invested in creating long-range anti-BETA missiles and bombardment beacons that can call in artillery strikes from Montana-class(!) battleships.

OK, knowing the Anyone Can Die setting of the Muv-Luv 'verse, I'm pretty sure something in this whole "operation" (which is more of a delaying action against the BETA's Zerg Rush, really) is bound to go horribly, horribly wrong. I'm also assuming that the idealistic leader of the West German squadron (the ones with Tornado TSFs) who wants to work with the Black Marks will be one of those who will die.

edited 6th Feb '16 5:36:25 AM by IncognitoNinja

Episode 5:

For a second there, I thought Huckebein Squadron's Kirke/Circe Steinhoff was voiced by Hitomi Nabatame (since her personality is similar to Erika Itsumi)...until I remembered that Nabatame already voiced Cryska Barchenowa in Total Eclipse. So I checked out the Schwarzesmarken characters page and... EEEEH?! Manami Numakura?!

(*ahem*) Anyway...

So something did go wrong on the battlefield, but the worst-case scenario I was expecting in the previous episode (i.e.: the BETA overrunning the joint UN/NATO-Warsaw Pact forward base) is averted for now. And the 666th are even hailed as heroes by their Western counterparts for saving the Western European contingent. But despite the success in battle, the 666th suffer a major setback on the homefront, as their loyal mission control officer gets captured by the Stasi and brainwashed into giving them vital information...before being executed by Sexsta...err...Beatrix.

Yikes. That said, at Joachim Belke slapping Kirke/Circe and Annett's bottoms (which would be sexual harassment otherwise) to break up their fight.

edited 7th Feb '16 9:02:00 PM by IncognitoNinja

Gretel breaks free from the shackles of politrickery. That, and as Pham pointed out, why stop the 666th from saving the day. Sometimes politricks don't care enough to see the bigger picture.

Agh, accursed Stasi blokes! And I'm pretty sure Lise's sullen expression under victorious skies is something to keep in mind...

Episode 6:

Holy s**t, Lise. Not only are you one clingy girl, but a manipulative one at that.

I know Theodor and Lise are stepsiblings, but the incest subtext still squicks me.

"Homussar" showing her dere side was quite cute. (Does she have feelings for Theodor, then?)

And finally, after the Black Marks left Poland, what happened to the US-EU contingent that took Gdansk? Did they withdraw (since AFAIK, that whole joint operation was a delaying action to shore up East Germany's defenses), or were they overrun by the BETA from the Minsk hive?

Episode 7: Where s**t gets real... Let's see: The BETA from the Minsk Hive attack in full force—complete with Heavy Laser-class, Heinz Axemann begins his coup d'etat while the Volksarmee is at the front holding back the tide of BETA...and Lise shows her true colors in The Stinger... (While the subplot about Katia wanting to find out the truth about what happened to her father has taken a back seat... *sigh*)

Heavy-Lasers? Don't remember seeing those in Total Eclipse. Guess they became extinct by then.

So you finally showed your true colours to everyone, Lise.

Heavy-Lasers. Taller than a TSF, and their "laser" is basically a Wave-Motion Gun. Oh, and did I mention they have acidic blood?

As for why the Heavy Laser-class is rarely encountered in Total Eclipse, the Muv-Luv wiki may have an explanation:

Episode 8: ^* Which I couldn't find a high-quality version of on the stream sites I usually go to...

So Katia—or rather, Ursula—finally reveals her true identity as Theodor spends most of the episode angsting more silently than Shinn Asuka. Meanwhile, it turns out Axmann got out-gambitted by Schmidt and Beatrix.

Also, that scene where Pham is left by Lise to the Stasi for interrogation and can only hear the sound of her screams... Did that involve Cold-Blooded Torture or something else?

edited 4th Mar '16 7:16:51 AM by IncognitoNinja

Wait so it has nothing to do with Schwarzenegger?!

..............

Katia....will not like the incoming report...

Pham suffered so much throughout this show. And her death was just as brutal. Ugh, that just sucks!

Annet has also suffered a lot. Pham's death is one more vicious stab at her soul...

Lise...hm... If she lives through all this, fine. If she doesn't, that's fine too. Whatever happens, I don't really care...

@YoKab: Tim Benzedrine ^note from the now-defunct Council-Of-Elrond forums, is that you?

Episode 9:

Rest in peace, Pham. May Mami Tomoe bless your efforts to be a Cool Big Sis (despite your seiyuu also voicing the antagonist in Mami's home universe).

I wouldn't be surprised if Annet becomes a death seeker at this point. ( Probably doing a suicide charge at the Werewolf Squadron or something...)

And at this point, I wouldn't blame the audience if they want to see Theodor deliver a coup de grace to Lise. That b***h played him like a damn fiddle.

Also, when I started watching Schwarzesmarken, I found Katia's wide-eyed idealism a bit annoying. But now, I've started to like her character a bit more—even though I know I shouldn't considering the nature of this series. But yeah, that being said, it's going to be a heartbreaker if Katia dies...

edited 8th Mar '16 10:53:37 PM by IncognitoNinja

Episode 10:

Annet averts being a death seeker (for now) thanks to Gretel. Also, it would be pretty easy for the Stasi to have Irisdina "accidentally shot", but I have a feeling she's still alive at the moment since killing her at this point would make her a martyr (and bolster the rebellion as a result).

If there was any indication of Theodor's Start of Darkness (if the Fanon about his character is true), then this episode is it. Although with Lise being broken enough as she is (mentally and physically), living is probably a worse fate than death.

Man, if the Tekkadan boys currently have "such a lust for revenge", one could say that Theodor is about to go Nuclear in this show...

edited 14th Mar '16 6:39:17 PM by IncognitoNinja

Episode 11:

I Knew It!, Irisdina is still alive. And it turns out Lise told Theodor where Irisdina is imprisoned shortly before receiving the coup de grace.

Also, Schmidt is a Soviet agent? Holy... And here I thought that Beatrix would be executed right then and there, but nope, it's Schmidt who gets the bullet right between the eyes. (She must have seduced those soldiers to her side beforehand...)

And Gretel bites the dust instead of betraying the 666th to Axmann... Damn. And with the Stasi files going up in smoke, the reason why Katia—or rather, Ursula's father was un-personed will forever remain a mystery... (Unless they make a prequel spinoff or something.)

P.S.: I was a wee bit off my rocker when I thought up some of the other edits on the Trivia page under "Hey Its That Voice". Yes, I consider Beatrix a she-wolf at this point because she gives off a similar vibe as the titular Ilsa. Not to mention that her squadron is named Werewolf.

Beatrix is the final boss. Beware her fangs. And Axmann's quite the slippery fellow, isn't he? When I think he's through, he makes a neat escape.

Darn, Gretel didn't make it either! At least she stuck to her guns in the end...

Episode 12 (END):

(*Whistles a certain Scorpions tune*)

Oh wow... Katia/Ursula's still alive?! Also, Homussar (if that's really her with a new boyish haircut at the hospital) and Anett? (Jeez Anett, you should've just shot Axmann on the spot...)

However, the finale remains ambiguous on whether or not Theodor would later go on to become "The Master." Irisdina's death is definitely one of the triggers (the other having to do a mercy kill on Lise) to Theodor possibly becoming a Fallen Hero, but so far he hasn't "gone Nuclear" yet. But if the Theodor=Master theory still holds, this makes him look like a guy who's Playing Both Sides (or rather, the many factions within humanity) against the BETA threat. (Unless of course, something bad really happens to Katia later on.

My headcanon is that Jerzy Sandek would be behind Katia's assassination because she is an obstacle to his plans or dug a little too deep on whatever it is that he's doing.)

Makes me wonder if the staff of Âge went to the "Hideo Kojima School of Kudzu Plots."

Oh well, at least the TSF battles were satisfying to see.

edited 28th Mar '16 9:50:09 PM by IncognitoNinja

It's somewhat gratifying to see at least a nod to the way East Germany liberated itself in the real world, not through the derring do of mecha pilots in too tight costumes, but by millions of ordinary people holding peaceful demonstrations because they were fed up with the regime.

Also, a last stand at the Seelowe Heights against overwhelming military might from the East? Hmmm, sounds familiar...

The final bout against Beatrix was quite the struggle, but they won in the end. Walter and Sylvia didn't make it, though. And Sylvia died shielding Annet. And she used to hate her so much...

Katia says the expected speech, and the commons rise to change this rotten world.

Huh. So Iris only lived to see the rise of a new Berlin. Sad, but like everyone else, she gave it her all... Plus, capping Axmann was a nice bonus. Although, Annet could've just shot Axmann herself.

At least Annet lived through it all. Impressed and happy am I. And hey, Gretel made it too! What a relief...

The living, in memory of their beloved comrades, move towards a shining future... Well, as shiny as it can be. This is before Total Eclipse after all...

Watching this on the same day as Iron-Blooded Orphans' second half was quite the blast.

TIDBITS!

Huh, didn't know that Beatrix was voiced by Yukari Tamura. Quite surprising.

Basically, whenever a operation is motion and the like, I noticed that Theodor usually ended up working together with Annet. Heh, and he thought she was a nuisance in the beginning.

Hey guys I had a question to ask y'all about my second favorite and probably most sympathetic character in the series, Lise.

Under Lises' character page it refers to her love (in the anime) as being selfish, while I don't like the way they changed her death or her portrayal from the light novels, I don't believe her anime incarnation was all that selfish at all.

To put it the way I see it, say your in highschool and your crush that you love a lot, even becoming a Yandere like Lise, falls in love with someone else, I think anyone would become selfish.

So what do you guys think selfish love intales since I find it to be a little too subjective.

edited 29th Mar '16 1:25:33 AM by F4LIX

"Ostfront, f**king hell. I'd give anything to fight the Vesterners. Those Americans are always complaining about Pioneer spam."

Additional tidbits:

- I couldn't help but exclaim, "It's the Pope's Revenge!" when I saw the distinctive Fernsehturm Berlin during the battle.

an event much closer to home

As for Lise, "selfish" probably isn't the right word to describe her love for Theodor, since the flashbacks before the two were arrested by the Stasi seemed to indicate that Lise's feelings for Theodor were genuine and pure. But Lise's feelings were twisted to a more "possessive" attraction no thanks to the Stasi's brainwashing (and other stuff I'm loathe to mention).

Since you've read the Schwarzesmarken light novel, I can't help but wonder if the things that happened to the characters (Lise in particular) were described in more detail than what the anime showed?

Well the LN/VN flesh out the characters alot more so you understand most of them alot better.

Especially since it's in Theodor's perspective, unlike the anime which can't have that liberty.

Lises' guilt hits home alot better than it does in the anime and makes you very sympathetic and want her to die not out of hatred for her, but love and how much pain she went through.

Overall if you get the chance too, read the LN or play the VN since it's a lot better and contains the full story.

edited 29th Mar '16 7:07:03 PM by F4LIX

Is the LN in English anywhere out of curiosity?

Not in an official translation unfortunately.

edited 29th Mar '16 6:49:50 PM by F4LIX

Are they completely translated unofficially?

Again unfortunately no, I've had some people who have read it inform me on the story etc.