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Tropers: Glenn Magus Harvey
(last updated on 3 April 2013) (except troper wall, moved on 30 Sept 2014)

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About this troper

Gamer; occasional animé watcher; tends to gravitate unintentionally toward relatively obscure works.

    Tropes this person especially enjoys/appreciates 

Stuff I've done on TVT

    Tropes/indices created or significantly contributed to 

    Media and other pages created or contributed significantly to 
(disclaimer: does not mean this troper necessarily likes the series/creator; it's usually because this troper has worked on them in some capacity): (* = pages I started)

    Old YKTT Ws and YKTTW ideas (including logs) 
  • Action Mimicker: (can't remember exactly, but I think it was about creatures in games that imitate your actions near-perfectly.)
  • Endgame: After all the Mac Guffins are collected or all the sub-bosses beaten, you know you're in for the final showdown.
  • Flawed Masterpiece: A work recognized as great despite significant flaws.
  • Imbuing An Object With Evil Monster Spirit: Frequent means of producing the Monster of the Week, as shown in shows like Power Rangers and Sailor Moon.
  • Legendary Weapon / Legendary Hero
  • Soul Of Fiery Redness: Wearing red, being themed on fire, and being hot-headed are often seen in some combination together.
  • Supporting Cast Vote Of Confidence: (can't remember this exactly)
  • Themed Level Pacing: Games usually start out in a neutral, grassy plains area (or something like that), and progressively move toward more unusual and dangerous locales.
  • No Pain, No Gain
  • Soundtrack Instrumental Version of Theme Song - may be Theme Tune Cameo; that page might need splitting into karaoke and arranged-instrumental versions
  • Steam Vents
  • Sub-Meme (previously known as "fad")
  • Telegraphing Attacks
Feel free to YKTTW these; just let me know if you do.

YKTTW log for Flawed Masterpiece:

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/discussion.php?id=y3vv1rfjie7kx66ykyj8dsr8

"Skies Of Arcadia is one of those games that has a list of flaws a mile long (cliched story, broken battle system, Random Encounters), but manages to be great fun despite (or arguably because of) that, even through multiple playthroughs. There's definitely something to be said for piracy in airships." ~ from this very wiki, about Skies of Arcadia

A Subjective Trope.

Some things—TV shows, games, movies, novels, etc.—may be considered by a good part of their fanbase to be significantly flawed in some way. The script may be narmful; the plot may be a bit Aesop-heavy, the acting might not be too convincing at times, the special effects may look obvious, the gameplay might be tedious or too easy...but the work is still widely appreciated by its fans.

Needless to say, this trope is rather subjective.

Examples list:
  • Castlevania: Symphony of the Night: Generally regarded as the best or among the best Castlevania games, and well-regarded even now (13 years after its release, as of 2010), despite its successors having better gameplay design and more appropriate difficulty.
  • The Evangelion series: incoherent rambling of a wuss of a shonen hero who trashes a perfectly good Giant Mecha show, or a deep psychoanalysis of characters with social problems that the audience can relate to? Can't deny that it's a classic show that still garners new fans, though.
  • La-Mulana, in its original version, a game filled with Guide Dang It details and possibly even a required item that could be Lost Forever, and many gamers dislike its intentionally Nintendo Hard design. However, its intense atmosphere, retro but nevertheless rich graphics, and beautiful soundtrack have made even some haters admit it's perhaps a museum-piece in the form of a videogame.
  • Skies of Arcadia, as mentioned in the page quote above.

reply: added: 2010-08-20 22:06:31 by Tannhaeuser
Hamlet, according to T.S. Eliot:
So far from being Shakespeare's masterpiece, the play is most certainly an artistic failure. In several ways the play is puzzling, and disquieting as is none of the others. Of all the plays it is the longest and is possibly the one on which Shakespeare spent most pains; and yet he has left in it superfluous and inconsistent scenes which even hasty revision should have noticed.

reply: added: 2010-08-21 20:16:13 by Battle Mage
Looks like Gushing About Shows You Like.

reply: added: 2010-08-21 23:48:18 by Metalitia
No, that's simply when you like something and you really wanna let people know. I think this trope is like a "compliment sandwich", where you point out something's flaws, then say good stuff about it, then point out more flaws. Like, Pro Wrestling on the NES, for instance. Let's face it, it's clunky, and it looks like a mess, but for some reason, we all love it (I mean seriously, I don't think ANYBODY hates that game AT ALL) and consider it one of the paragons of professional wrestling in video games (even when you compare it to Tecmo World Wrestling, which looks and plays much better, but gets much less press and praise for some reason).

reply: added: 2010-08-23 18:54:59 by Chevalier Malfait
Schindler's List, for many critics and general viewers. While the film is nearly universally praised for its contribution to Holocaust education, its powerful lead and supporting performances, and its authentically classic newsreel-like cinematography, there's one scene in particular that many, perhaps most, viewers consider Narm: namely, the moment towards the end when Schindler, speaking to his newly-liberated workers for the last time, suddenly bursts into tears and says "I could have done more!", berating himself for not selling his car and the ring off his finger to buy freedom for just a few more Jews. The scene, according to Real Life "Schindler Jews" and others who knew the man, was completely inaccurate and out of character for him; nor was it in the Thomas Keanally historical novel of which the film was an adaptation.

reply: added: 2010-08-23 19:05:40 by Prfnoff
This is way too subjective.

reply: added: 2010-08-23 19:59:03 by Game_Fan
We can probably limit the subjectivity by requiring references to a critic who feels this way. Speaking of which:

Zero Punctuation occasionally includes blink-and-you-miss-it mentions that the game is fun to play before a several minute rant about everything wrong with it.

reply: added: 2010-08-23 20:24:05 by Mortrialus
I agree with Prfnoff. Its too subjective to be a trope.

YKTTW log for Soul of Fiery Redness:

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/discussion.php?id=he8kdory4pg5qqrf8c4ldpun

The following sets of traits are often seen together:

  • a character who is associated with fire in some way (or associated with something else that's associated with fire)
  • a character with an impetuous and/or driven and/or aggressive personality, sometimes portrayed as overconfident or overdoing it (occasionally to disastrous results)
  • the character is associated with the color red—be it in clothing, hair color, armor, etc.

I discussed this in chat, and the following articles were suggested: Hot-Blooded, Hair Colors, Colour-Coded for Your Convenience, and Red-Headed Hero. None of them seem to quite fit this—the first is merely about heroic force of will, the second doesn't name cases where it's not a redhead, the third is practically not this topic, and the fourth misses the personality traits.

Does this already exist? I thought it would, as I thought this was a really obvious trope. But then again, I only really started thinking about it since I've been trying to create one such character.

Examples:

  • Asuka Langley Soryu from Neon Genesis Evangelion: red clothing, red mecha, personality traits of aggression and impetuousness, although not associated directly with fire (and she has red hair, but only in the animé)
  • Nola Falacci from Law & Order: Criminal Intent: red hair, and a forceful, confrontational, aggressive personality (though of course her clothing is realistic)
  • Jenna from Golden Sun: associated with fire, more driven, outgoing, and sometimes emotional than other members of the cast, has red-purplish hair and red/purple clothes
  • Hikaru from Magic Knight Rayearth: associated with fire, wears red and has red hair, is the most tomboyish of the three Magic Knights, has the highest attack power in the RPG version of the plot
  • Lance from Voltron (Voltron 3D, in particular): associated with Red Lion (which is associated with fire), wears red (in V3D, but possibly only because that's his Lion's color), and has somewhat of a more rule-defying and aggressive personality that would sometimes clash with his commander (Keith) and high command which led to his getting arrested and jailed during a pretty dramatic story arc

(Note: Lance from cartoon Lion Voltron has a different personality and appearance, despite still piloting Red Lion. First, he wears blue. Second, more importantly, he instead has the calm sarcastic/snarky commentator personality.)

Edit:

Other examples given by commenters and one of my real-life friends:

  • Mega Man Battle Network: Hino Ken, Fireman, Heatman (courtesy of Caphi)
  • Golden Sun: Garet (courtesy of Some Guy)
  • Lord of the Rings: Gandalf? based on "I am a servant of the secret fire, wielder of the Flame of Anor" and on his carrying the ring of fire Narya. (courtesy of unknown troper) However, another troper has noted that he is careful and controlled in his actions. (courtesy of Coriander)
  • Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha: Vita. Badly-tempered, agressive, red-headed Wolkenritter with a very red Elegant Gothic Lolita outfit. (courtesy of Servbot)
  • Shakugan no Shana: Shana. Heck it's her freaking name! "Flame-Haired Burning-Eyed Hunter" She got the red hair, the fire, and the temper (Tsundere). (courtesy of Sackett, who nominates this to be the trope picture)
  • Avatar: the Last Airbender: Azula, the Fire Lord, Zuko (courtesy of Sackett)
  • Pokémon: Ash's Charmeleon, Ash's Charizard? These seem to be pretty much stock-characters that were drawn out of the warehouse in order to serve as personality for these minor characters. (courtesy of my friend M.J.S.)

Other tropes considered: Personality Powers, {{Red Oni Blue Oni}

My comments: This might possibly be considered a subtrope of Personality Powers, but I haven't thought this one through yet. However, it seems that Red Oni Blue Oni applies to the contrast between two characters, and I'm inclined to agree with Sackett that this trope could apply for when the point is the character himself/herself, as opposed to the comparison.

reply: added: 2008-07-25 15:21:34 by Caphi
Hino Ken in Mega Man Battle Network and the anime adaptation. Also, Fireman and Heatman, both Navis of his. Flameman less so, because Flameman is lame.

reply: added: 2008-07-25 18:27:39 by Glenn Magus Harvey
Bump because I'm pretty sure there are more examples out there that I haven't thought of, and I want to get more input (as well as possibly find an actual trope page of this, if there exists one).

reply: added: 2008-07-25 18:50:54 by Some Guy
Oh, I quite agree this is common enough trope. I'm just trying to remember if its on the site or not. I know I've heard it defined at least once or twice before reading this YYKTW, but it might not have been here. It certainly warrants a split from Hair Colors, in any case. Red hair is, without a doubt, the type most likely to determine a character's overall personality.

I'd say Garet embodies this more than Jenna, by the way.

reply: added: 2008-07-25 19:39:09 by Unknown Troper 82.34.61.71
Gandalf wields powers associated with fire. Confronting the Balrog, he tells it "I am a servant of the secret fire, wielder of the Flame of Anor". It's not until the end of the book (not in the film) that we discover that Gandalf is the wielder of Narya, the Ring of Fire, one of the Three Rings of the Elves.

reply: added: 2008-07-25 20:04:05 by Coriander
Yeah, but Gandalf goes out of his way to avoid falling into the personality tropes listed above. He's cautious, thoughtful and slow to act. Also, he doesn't have red hair... or clothes... [1].

And fiery souls with power over flame are covered in Personality Powers.

reply: added: 2008-07-25 20:04:59 by The Wanderer
Sounds like the red oni from Red Oni, Blue Oni

reply: added: 2008-07-25 20:35:27 by CAD
...

reply: added: 2008-07-25 20:36:09 by CAD
[This is not a reply]

reply: added: 2008-07-25 20:50:31 by Scooter007
Supposedly the Sith use red-bladed lightsabers because red symbolizes passion and aggression.

reply: added: 2008-07-25 21:09:23 by Servbot
Vita of Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha. Badly-tempered, agressive, red-headed Wolkenritter with a very red Elegant Gothic Lolita outfit.

reply: added: 2008-07-25 21:26:12 by Kuciwalker
The Sith use red lightsabers because everything in Star Wars is Color Coded For Our Convenience. In-universe, it's because that's just what the color of the synthetic crystals they make is.

reply: added: 2008-07-25 22:48:47 by Sackett
Shana from Shakugan no Shana Heck it's her freaking name! "Flame-Haired Burning-Eyed Hunter" She got the red hair, the fire, and the temper (Tsundere).

In fact, if this becomes a trope, I nominate her image to go on the page as the picture representation of this trope.

reply: added: 2008-07-25 23:05:35 by Robert Bingham
Have to agree with The Wanderer. This is the Red Oni half of Red Oni, Blue Oni.

reply: added: 2008-07-25 23:16:25 by Sackett
Should Red Oni, Blue Oni refer only to when they are paired, and have this be for when the Red Oni appears alone?

Or does the addition of flame make this different?

PS: Avatar: The Last Airbender: Azula, the Fire Lord, and Zuko all fit this.

reply: added: 2008-07-28 23:34:42 by Sackett
Hmm... Ranma from Ranma ˝ might fit this, has the personality, and is almost always wearing red, but instead of Fire is associated with the Soul Of Ice. A subversion?

reply: added: 2008-07-29 01:47:28 by Nigeria Lisa
Hino Rei/Sailor Mars from Sailor Moon?

reply: added: 2008-08-06 23:25:09 by Glenn Magus Harvey
ykttw bump, to see if there are fresh faces to look at this trope before I launch it.

reply: added: 2008-09-01 14:14:20 by Sackett
bump

reply: added: 2008-09-01 15:47:07 by Epiblast
I think this is worth counting as its own trope, intersecting with but distinct from Red Oni, Blue Oni. Red Oni, Blue Oni implies a pair of characters with contrasting characteristics, while this is just a passionate "red" character who doesn't necessarily have a foil. Note that this is a significantly more common type, with a greater tie to the color it's associated with, than an isolated "blue oni" type. It may help if we get some more examples that aren't from anime or anime-influenced stuff. What about Wheeler from Captain Planet and the Planeteers?

reply: added: 2008-09-02 04:27:56 by Black Charizard
Seems to be a subtrope of Astonishingly Appropriate Appearance. Is this splittable?

reply: added: 2009-07-09 13:58:35 by Sackett
So.... This is Red Oni? as a subtrope of Astonishingly Appropriate Appearance and needs a note that often the Red Oni is paired with a Blue Oni

reply: added: 2009-07-10 10:48:46 by Smokie
Vita doesn't fit. She's not associated with fire in any way. That's Signum, who's a stoic badass with a pink outfit.

reply: added: 2009-07-10 12:44:28 by Unknown Troper 66.192.186.101
Chandra Nalaar from Magic the Gathering fits this to a tee.

reply: added: 2009-07-10 13:58:22 by Servbot
@Smokie: If that is the case, then Asuka and Nola, the first two examples given by the trope proposer, does not fit either as they are not assciated to fire besides having a fiery personality. Seems like the proposed trope covers both the metaphorical fire as well as the literal fire.

Of course, Fiery Redhead Agito of the Nanoha franchise has both the metaphorical and literal fire.

Also, Mahou Sensei Negima! has Negi's Fiery Redhead, fire mage of a childhood friend, Anya.

By the way, if this is launched, Fiery Redhead this should probably be linked to Fiery Redhead as well.

reply: added: 2009-07-11 00:31:22 by Vekter
Can't believe the poster missed this one.

Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann. Everyone.

reply: added: 2009-07-11 05:27:27 by Unknown Troper 213.145.44.84
Lina Inverse from The Slayers

reply: added: 2009-07-11 06:09:47 by Stormtroper
* Faris from Final Fantasy V is the character associated with fire (not that you'd tell), she's somewhat aggressive.

reply: added: 2010-03-16 15:15:10 by Glenn Magus Harvey
This is an old YKTTW of mine that doesn't seem to have been launched yet.

I think, in the time since I last visited this discussion, I found a trope that actually corresponds to this, but I don't remember what it is. Maybe someone can think of it once I bump it with this reply?


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